Disciplinary - Agent Liam

Summary:

Asking about SCP porn, gratuitous additions with self-insert, creepiness, ignored staff

Agent Liam

Zyn 29 Nov 2013 19:28

User Agent Liam made a comment on Bright's List consisting of the following:

… where do I go for 682 banging Iris?

Edit: Ok, looked. I only found 173 and Rights. Now I can't find anything else I like. Can someone make some more of the such? I have literally found all images, and I need more than just one that appeals.

Also made another comment indicating the following, even though his edit comment already stated that yes, it was his avatar being referenced:

Ah crap forgot to post here. Added "Dr. Bright is not allowed to replace Agent ████'s personal sidearm with SCP-50-AE-J," and yes that's referencing to my avatar. Or at least what its gonna be eventually, when I post enough. Also, should I add the period in Dr. Bright in the title?

Esko Modposted the former, replied to latter and reverted the edit because collaborative logs aren't meant to be just a place for people to stuff avatars/self-inserts into when they don't have material on the site yet.

Keep an eye on this one.

Re: Agent Liam

TroyL 30 Nov 2013 03:29

Whelp. I'll go ahead and note it here. 682xIris was written by Kens. It is only available from Pastebin.

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"WELL FOUNDATION. YOU MADE IT SO EASY. SO VERY VERY EASY." - dimensionpotato

Re: Agent Liam

DrKens 30 Nov 2013 19:32

Even two years after I wrote that monstrosity it's still being brought up. I shudder at this knowledge.

Re: Agent Liam

Vezaz 30 Nov 2013 20:15

We will read it at your funeral.

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I sing of arms and the man
Storm-tossed by Hera's jealousy

Re: Agent Liam

thedeadlymoose 30 Nov 2013 20:10

I'm really not sure I like telling everyone who's interested in adult stuff to SHUT UP FOREVER OMG.

I mean, that post struck me as creepy, but not because it was looking for stuff like this.

Honestly, I'd just like to have a Adult Content area. We could potentially gate it based on age as well (although that wouldn't work for Recent Posts / Changes unless we got fancy with Categories, which I am not averse to) and give it its own anti-creepy rules.

Re: Agent Liam

RJB_R 30 Nov 2013 20:15

We did have an adult section, for several years. It was removed because of low interest(it had two stories, both from 2008-09) and because someone added a really bad Kain fic a year or so ago and we decided it wasn't worth the bother. I think well-written tales with some more mature content don't need their own section, we already have an age limit for joining and such.

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Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you!

Re: Agent Liam

thedeadlymoose 30 Nov 2013 20:39

We have an age limit of fifteen and we disallow adult content, and we also don't have any place for discussing adult content where our staff won't freak out about it.

I would also like to note that the decision to disallow adult content was made AFAIK by just a couple people at some point way back when; I could be wrong, perhaps admins got together and decided it together before I became an admin, and no record was kept.

I am also well aware of our Adult Section closing; the stories in it … weren't actually adult, for one. Perhaps I ought to have clarified my thought: I think we should allow adult content, and gate them away once more if we're going to freak the hell out at the very idea of SCP porn. And this includes a discussion forum.

(Apologies for the lack of clarity, I'm still waking up.)

Re: Agent Liam

AdminBright 30 Nov 2013 22:02

I don't think we do disallow adult content, unless you mean naked pictures, which, if someone wrote a good scp with a picture of nudity, I don't think anyone would have an issue with…

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Admin, SCP Wiki

Re: Agent Liam

eric_h 30 Nov 2013 20:48

This is true, it was removed mostly for lack of interest. It did require Admin approval prior to posting anything there, to prevent
hyper-stupid/creepy content — that might have put off potential writers, but I personally approved. Has anyone heard of any serious desire to write anything inappropriate for the 15-17 crowd?

There is definitely a bunch of "Rule 34" SCP stuff out there in the fanbase if one knows where to look had Ecks linking it for you in chat.

I guess my point is I would not object to adult writing on the site if it's gated off and there is demand for it.

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SCP Wiki Senior Citizen Staff | Thank you for testing my new memetic Forum sig

Last edited on 30 Nov 2013 20:50 by eric_h Show more

Re: Agent Liam

thedeadlymoose 30 Nov 2013 21:49

I am iffy about requiring admin approval. I'd rather have a specific set of standards, which if stories fail to follow, they can be deleted immediately at staff discretion. (Note: The previous standards were extraordinarily vague.)

I'd be willing to help draft up such a set of standards, if enough other staff think it's a good idea (this remains to be seen).

Has anyone heard of any serious desire to write anything inappropriate for the 15-17 crowd?

I have heard of non-creepy interest, yes, though not recently.

Re: Agent Liam

Eskobar 30 Nov 2013 21:21

My specific issue was that it sounded like the user was looking specifically for, well, fap material involving 682, including images or animations depicting 682 engaging in sex with Iris and/or 173 having sex with Dr. Rights. I'm not gonna engage in feminist critique of power relations in porn here because I don't have a free month or two to dedicate to it, but something about the way he phrased what he was looking for reminded me of someone saying "Okay, I've found all the tentacle rape of Alice in Wonderland, can anybody find or make me some tentacle rape of Snow White now?" I don't see any porn (not erotic literature, which I don't believe is what Liam was looking for) involving either of those two SCPs being what you'd call "consentually oriented" or "pleasant", and at least one of the two female subjects involved is a fictional representation of a real person who is already often viewed or depicted in unnecessarily sexual contexts. (Go read the comments on the Japanese wiki for the translation of Dr. Rights' personnel file for examples.)

If we wanna reopen the topic of adult material on the wiki or adult topics, that's fine, but my personal interpretation of that conversation was that it wasn't going anywhere good and it was gonna not go there pretty quickly. My modpost reflected that.

Re: Agent Liam

thedeadlymoose 30 Nov 2013 21:43

The summary of my response is that I basically agree with you, albeit with more text wall on top of that. It was creepy. I apologize for not being clear yet again — today is clearly not my day.

However, generally we seem to have developed a knee-jerk aversion to adult topics or content, which is something I actively dislike. And specifically in this case I don't think looking specifically for 682xIris is a bad thing (I actually think it's a hilarious thing). Although the post was still creepy, it wasn't looking for 682xIris that made it creepy, IMO. (I'm willing to reconsider this if someone wants to make an argument, but I'm currently not seeing it.)

Re: Agent Liam

Eskobar 30 Nov 2013 22:51

I can get behind this. I don't think that looking specifically for any one thing is a bad thing; it's the assumptions I'm making about the motivations behind the search. But again, I think we agree on that. I'm all for examining our policies (official, unofficial, or otherwise) towards adult material, but honestly, I don't think it's a thing we can do from the top down. If a demand or impetus to create not-fuck-creepy adult-type material emerges, we can decide how to react to it then. Until then, I don't figure we can do much either way.

In the future, I'll try to specify "you are being creepy" as the cause for the mod post rather than "WE DO NOT PR0N", though :P

Re: Agent Liam

thedeadlymoose 30 Nov 2013 23:13

I'm all for examining our policies (official, unofficial, or otherwise) towards adult material, but honestly, I don't think it's a thing we can do from the top down. If a demand or impetus to create not-fuck-creepy adult-type material emerges, we can decide how to react to it then.

I actually don't agree with this, because the current suppression of adult material — although it's inconsistent — started at the top, as far as I can tell, and if anyone suggests adult material everyone else jumps on them for potential rules violation. I would like an actual policy, that staff actually agree on, even if we don't go as far as recreating a section for it.

Re: Agent Liam

SoullessSingularity 02 Dec 2013 14:12

I'm really leery of allowing adult material. It just feels like asking everyone to put up their creepiness and fetishes for all to see (yes I know, coming from me).

If we enact policies against that kind of behavior I don't have any qualms. I just am not up to the idea of weird, vaguely distasteful erotica on the site.

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Living the dream, or dreaming the life?

Re: Agent Liam

Aelanna 02 Dec 2013 16:10

It also bears mention that adult content draws lawsuits like moths to a flame. Do staff have contingencies for that kind of inevitable incident?

To clarify: even if this isn't in violation of Wikidot's policies, there is no software capability to gate users by age due to a lack of age verification. Combined with the fact that our general membership age limit is 15, there will be confusion and there will be lawsuits from concerned parents and overzealous lawyers. Are you guys prepared to deal with that kind of thing?

Re: Agent Liam

eric_h 04 Dec 2013 11:38

This is an excellent point, since as far as I know, our legal budget is zero.

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SCP Wiki Senior Citizen Staff | Thank you for testing my new memetic Forum sig

Re: Agent Liam

Kain Pathos Crow 02 Dec 2013 18:31

I see reasons as to why and why not:

Why:

• If there's genuine interest in erotic literature, why not?
• It's a venue that's rarely explored in a tasteful sense, so it would be nice to see what it could come to.
• It can attract readers who'd come for the supernatural porn and stay for the regular stuff.
• Another venue of creativity.
• You'll find weird fetishes you never even knew you had.

Why Not:

• We will get creepy users. There won't be a way to stop that.
• We will get creepy stories, even with the guidelines saying no.
• We will have to gate off some SCP, because no one wants to go there, but inevitably, someone will. Looking at you 231.
• We will have to hold these stories to a much higher standard.
• We will need to get a legally annotated disclaimer, to protect ours and the sites asses.
• We'll need to check if Wikidot itself allows 18+ sexual content.
• We'll need to make sure the area of the site is heavily regulated since putting up certain sexual content can be pretty illegal, and furthermore, a violation of the Wikidot's Terms of Service, which can get the site removed.

Simply put, it's a good idea, but we'll have to a bit of work to get it started, and bit more on the regular workload makng sure it stays on the straight and narrow.

At least, there's my two cents.

Re: Agent Liam

Vezaz 02 Dec 2013 18:41

There were precisely two stories written in this vein in the first five years; is there any evidence at all that demand for more exists?

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I sing of arms and the man
Storm-tossed by Hera's jealousy

Re: Agent Liam

Communism will win 02 Dec 2013 20:18

These are my thoughts. I am 95% sure that we won't actually get any erotic fiction, which means a lot of hubbub for probably nothing.

As for if we actually get any that's solid enough for the site… I'm going to speak for myself here for a second — it probably doesn't come as a surprise to many people that I read erotic fiction occasionally (if it does, well, surprise!). That is now on the public record, but exactly which ones I read and what I think of them (and why) is not. I don't know that any of you want that information. In essence, anyone choosing to vote on erotic fiction posted to the site is providing this information — especially if they want to post a substantive comment. I worry that the subject matter is considered private enough that people will hesitate to vote and comment — making it hard to regulate for quality and gauge popularity in the way we'd like. This goes double if we get into anything other than vanilla heterosexual relations.

So what we're looking at is a good deal of legwork and hassle to set up a system that probably won't produce anything, and anything that it DOES produce may come with anger and lawyers tagging along with it, and in the end it's going to be unpleasant for a number of people to vote and comment on. I say no.

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if your reading this your gay

Last edited on 04 Dec 2013 04:36 by Communism will win Show more

Re: Agent Liam

RJB_R 02 Dec 2013 21:39

Scantron said what I was gonna say, basically. This is something nobody is asking for, and it opens us up to a whole rat's nest of possible issues. It's simply not something that's part of our writing culture, and foisting it upon the userbase will spurn argument and make people unhappy. If people were asking for it, we could consider it, but this isn't anything I've seen anyone express interest in participating.

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Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you!

Re: Agent Liam

SoullessSingularity 04 Dec 2013 00:38

Ok on a more on-topic note, Agent Liam has ignored stop orders, including that of a mod and a senior staff with the response "too fucking bad" and a further comment stating "Thats rule 34 for ya. And yes I did get it off to that image. Look hard enough, you'll find it. Oh, and yes, I understand its a joke. However, I have found a porno of 682 banging Iris. Its hidden somewhere on pastebin."

I feel he should be banned or severely warned for his behavior. I'm willing to do the warning if we're not banning him outright.

Image here

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Living the dream, or dreaming the life?

Re: Agent Liam

Dexanote 04 Dec 2013 00:39

I'm up for banning. This is just flagrant. No excuse.

Re: Agent Liam

Heiden 04 Dec 2013 00:48

Agreed. This is not the attitude of a constructive or valuable user.

Re: Agent Liam

DrEverettMann 04 Dec 2013 01:11

Permanent ban, with consensus from Clef and Moose. He effectively announced his intention of not following our rules or listening to us.

EDIT: PMed Liam with the following:

Per your behavior in this thread, you have been permanently banned from the SCP Foundation following consensus from myself, thedeadlymoose, and DrClef. By responding to a mod post with "too fsking bad," you effectively announced your intention not to follow the rules of the site or listen to staff.

If you feel this ban was inappropriate, you may appeal it with any other admin, such as TroyL, Photosynthetic, or Drewbear.

I then posted this in the thread:

Agent Liam has been permanently banned from the wiki for this post.

When a member of staff calls for a stop, it means stop. It is not a suggestion. It is an order. Vezaz should not have had to explain that the conversation was over. That Agent Liam continued even after shows that he did not intend to follow the rules of this wiki or to listen to staff.

Last edited on 04 Dec 2013 01:26 by DrEverettMann Show more

Re: Agent Liam

Photosynthetic 05 Dec 2013 21:18

Good call, and good PMs.

Re: Agent Liam

DrClef 04 Dec 2013 01:09

Thirded.