[ARCHIVED] Dragon Snails

Summary:

Original artist was uncredited and knows about it.

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Dragon Snails

Zyn 18 Oct 2013 07:09

As discovered by Fantem recently (link here:http://www.scp-wiki.net/forum/t-469985/scp-111#post-1873183), the original artist on dA of the Dragonsnails knows about her work's use in an SCP article, and was going to report copyright infringement because there was no credit or recognition given.

I've messaged and posted a comment, and will discuss with her when she replies. Right now it is late and I have midterms, but I thought I'd throw this up for record-keeping.

Re: Dragon Snails

Eskobar 18 Oct 2013 12:07

Um, yeah, they seem pissed.

They've been aware of the infringement for a while, apparently, and have made efforts to get in touch with us, but didn't really know how to do that without joining Wikidot (which they had no interest in doing). We might want to get an attribution in soon, maybe by editing the first comment in the discussion thread to include whatever copyright information they want posted.

Question: Somebody cropped the original watermark out of the photo before using the picture. Should that be something that we specifically forbid, if it isn't already? It's a direct attempt to circumvent giving credit to original artists. I'm not saying Adam Henderson (the author of SCP-111) needs to be punished in this case, since we can't prove he was the one who removed the watermark anyway, but shouldn't it be very much against Site Rules to use someone else's work and deliberately take steps that avoid giving them credit? Or am I just over sensitive about this?

Re: Dragon Snails

eric_h 18 Oct 2013 17:38

shouldn't it be very much against Site Rules to use someone else's work and deliberately take steps that avoid giving them credit?

It should, although with copies of things floating around the web, it's hard to know if someone here modified an image or just picked it up after someone else did.

We have to be careful about this stuff because of the DMCA. Someone who finds their image being misused here could report it to Wikidot instead of us, and they could be jerks about it and take the entire site down in response. This would be stupid and excessive, but I don't trust them not to be.

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Re: Dragon Snails

Drewbear 18 Oct 2013 12:32

This seems pretty straightforward:

1. The picture was used without permission or attribution and the watermark was cropped off. Whether or not Adam Henderson was the one who did this is irrelevant.
2. The original artist is aware of the usage and has explicitly reported that she emphatically does NOT want us using it.
3. We need to immediately remove the picture, with a note in comments explaining why.

I move that we follow step 3 ASAP. As in, before the end of this weekend. I'm seeking consensus of at least 3 Admins, please.

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Re: Dragon Snails

Eskobar 18 Oct 2013 14:37

I thought we might let the conversation on DA play out a little longer. The creator of the art said they would have allowed the art to be used if it were properly attributed, which might mean they would be open to allowing it to continue to be used if we fix attribution. And this is a particular case where the picture is obviously the center of the article and was the primary impetus for its use.

That being said, I would actually suggest the picture be taken down right now and the conversation be about whether or not to put it back, because we're definitely not in the right at the moment. I think that can be a judgment call on your part, Drew.

Re: Dragon Snails

Communism will win 18 Oct 2013 14:50

I agree.

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Re: Dragon Snails

RJB_R 18 Oct 2013 15:07

I also agree.

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Re: Dragon Snails

thedeadlymoose 18 Oct 2013 16:58

Remove it, then discuss.

Re: Dragon Snails

AdminBright 18 Oct 2013 17:30

Image removed.

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Re: Dragon Snails

eric_h 18 Oct 2013 17:31

I agree. Remove it, then see if she will let it be used with permission/link back to her dA site.

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Re: Dragon Snails

Communism will win 18 Oct 2013 15:03

I'll message Adam Henderson about this. Whatever ends up happening, he should at least be kept in the loop.

E: Sent this:

Subject: SCP-111's picture
Basically, the original creator isn't happy that the picture was used without their permission. See the O5 thread on the issue, the post on the discussion page, and the original art here. The staff is already making attempts to get in contact with the artist, but I don't think it would hurt for you to make contact as well and see if you can't get their permission to use it (with attribution).

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Last edited on 18 Oct 2013 15:08 by Communism will win Show more

Re: Dragon Snails

Vezaz 18 Oct 2013 17:58

Arg, yes we should forbid cropping out watermarks without permission.

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Re: Dragon Snails

Zyn 18 Oct 2013 21:19

I haven't gotten any replies yet, but I'll keep everyone posted.

Edit: Still no replies, but with help from Fantem (who found the artist's non-dA website), I've sent the author an email regarding the matter.

Last edited on 20 Oct 2013 02:22 by Zyn Show more

Re: Dragon Snails

DrEverettMann 21 Oct 2013 06:56

I noticed the artist hadn't done anything on DeviantArt in a while, so I found her website and shot her an e-mail as well. Hopefully she sees it.

Re: Dragon Snails

TroyL 21 Oct 2013 18:05

On a side note, people have been specifically told to get rid of watermarks on their borrowed pictures, because it's "not realistic." In spite of these concerns having been brought up in StaffChat a couple of years ago, this attitude has persisted. If this is the case now, we need to make it an actual policy.

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Re: Dragon Snails

DrEverettMann 21 Oct 2013 19:48

Agreed. Stripping watermarks just isn't cool. A watermark is basically the author explicitly saying, "Hey, I don't want you using my work without my permission." If it has a watermark, then either hope no one cares enough to downvote, or else don't use the picture.

Re: Dragon Snails

eric_h 21 Oct 2013 20:19

…or get permission to strip it from the image owner.

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Re: Dragon Snails

Sorts 21 Oct 2013 19:49

This happened on 804 awhile back, although mercifully the file with the signature remains. I'd like to switch back to that if we're going to officially dump the "crop out watermarks" nonsense.

Re: Dragon Snails

DrEverettMann 21 Oct 2013 20:02

Done.

Re: Dragon Snails

Eskobar 21 Oct 2013 23:08

Not related to the Dragon Snails, but Wogglebug mentioned in staffchat that he was asked to edit SCP-593's picture to remove the watermark. Original picture is here. I think, as an extension of what I feel site policy about watermarked pictures should be, that the picture should be removed and a suitable replacement found by the author, unless someone can demonstrate or obtain the artist's permission. Thoughts?

Re: Dragon Snails

DrEverettMann 21 Oct 2013 23:24

Going ahead and changing it back to the original picture.

Re: Dragon Snails

thedeadlymoose 22 Oct 2013 05:50

Honestly, I think we could stand to just replace 593's picture. The author is long absent, and the picture is extremely generic.

Re: Dragon Snails

MisterFlames 22 Oct 2013 01:36

Considering the goings-on here, should we have a published policy for photographs on the site? I mean, we come down hard for things like plagiarism, even if such happens elsewhere. Sure, a watermark might kill the immersion, but then again we know we're a fiction site and really ought to keep that in mind.

Re: Dragon Snails

Photosynthetic 22 Oct 2013 04:56

I see no contradiction between the following two propositions:

1. Using watermarked images for SCPs kills immersion and should be avoided.
2. Removing watermarks is tantamount to plagiarism.

Obvious conclusion: if the image has a watermark, don't use it unless you have specific authorial permission to remove the mark. I don't think anyone here is arguing otherwise, for what it's worth — we just may want to clarify this particular policy point.

Re: Dragon Snails

AdminBright 22 Oct 2013 06:33

On the same wavelength as Photo here.

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Re: Dragon Snails

Drewbear 22 Oct 2013 12:48

Continuing this discussion here.

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