Dr_Gibbons
(account deleted) 24 Jan 2013 01:56
Strolling and strolling, and I see this:
20:50 Dr_Gibbons >subhuman chink language
Banned for 24 hours.
IP address is FC774E6D.95D25868.D551B5F2.IP
Dr_Gibbons
Forum
» SCP Chat / Chat Users
» Dr_Gibbons
Summary:
24 hour ban for racism
(account deleted) 24 Jan 2013 01:56
Bleh. We've permabanned for less. Not an OP, but he's enough of an oblivious dickhead that I could see a permanent ban being fully justified.
E: Thought: What are the odds that he won't eventually do something that does justify a permanent ban? My guess is that said odds are not very high. I don't particularly want this to get to the point where the camel is just a straw away from having its back broken.
E: The incident I was thinking of turned out to be a 24 (thanks to Reject for making me check my facts). I still would not be opposed to a perma.
if your reading this your gay
I haven't had any personal experience with Gibbons in the past, so that's why I'm handing a 24 at this point, just for the sake of fairness.
Any other OPs are welcome to toss in their opinions, though.
Considering he's been banned before, i'd make it a week.
Admin, SCP Wiki
Sit down at my computer and glance at site19. And this is what I see:
- Dr_Gibbons (~PI.2F5B155D.883928F1.1274EA39|snobbiG#PI.2F5B155D.883928F1.1274EA39|snobbiG) has joined #site19
<GeneralHarland> Ah, of course, how silly of me to forget
@pokedex parties
@pokedex punches sheep
<BlackWing> Hello Dex
- Dr_Gibbons (~PI.2F5B155D.883928F1.1274EA39|snobbiG#PI.2F5B155D.883928F1.1274EA39|snobbiG) Quit (Quit: Dr_Gibbons)
Not sure if we should call it ban evading or not, since he left quickly.
"WELL FOUNDATION. YOU MADE IT SO EASY. SO VERY VERY EASY." - dimensionpotato
I'm going with not, since he left before I could call him on it.
Did we decide how long his ban is?
Looks like he might have just forgotten to turn off autojoin.
Piffy is an SCP Foundation Moderator, Lv. 9001 Squishy Wizard, and Knight of the Red Pen.
Gonna toss something out here, may or may not be relevant. Gibbons claims to be from Ecks' era of chattery, where this sort of thing was more or less common and Rights passed out rape jokes like they were candy. He's acknowledged that the overall tone and composition of the chat has changed, though, so I don't really expect to see more of this out of him. Two cents.
Through PMs, Gibbons asked that I ban his handle in 19 and remove his membership from the wiki. Both requests completed.
Mode #site19 +b Dr_Gibbons!*@* by Quikngruvn
It looks like this is more or less sorted out already, but I feel obligated to point out that one of the chat owner's frequent greetings is "Heil Hitler," and it was only a week or two ago that a few of us jokingly riffed on written Arabic in the staff chat room.
Just for future reference, though, I disagree with banning someone for this. We aren't and shouldn't be the sensitivity police. If a comment isn't being specifically directed at someone, and nobody is being specifically insulted, it's not our job to step up and take offense on behalf of whatever race, culture, religion, orientation, or other subset of the population.
As tacky as it is, I'm gonna quote myself from another thread on basically the same subject:
Personal attacks are not ok. We already don't allow that. Someone getting offended or taking something personally which is not in any way directed at them, though? Frankly not our problem, and I don't see why intervention is necessary unless it becomes disruptive to the chat or grows into a violation of one of the other rules.
Gonna agree with Smascher here.
If someone's offended by that kind of thing, they ask him to stop it. If he continues, or makes comments with obvious malicious intent, being disruptive or violating the other rules, then yeah, go for the kickban.
But this is really just idle chatter, as the situation has pretty much resolved itself. For future reference then.
We aren't and shouldn't be the sensitivity police. If a comment isn't being specifically directed at someone, and nobody is being specifically insulted, it's not our job to step up and take offense on behalf of whatever race, culture, religion, orientation, or other subset of the population.
I disagree with you and I disagree with Kain.
As a side note: I am entertained by the assumption that no one here could be taking offense on behalf of themselves. Most of us are, in fact, one or two of (1) lily white, (2) straight, (3) dudes, (4) wtf-ever-else, but actually quite a few of us are not ALL those things. (It might even be the majority; I've never bothered to check.)
But that isn't my point - I just thought it was kind of funny. HERE is my point:
This falls, as far as I can tell, under "Wheaton's Law" - don't be a dick, the primary rule of our chatroom.
Waxx's "Heil Hitler" stuff is funny the way he plays it out. Most of the stuff Waxx comes up with is pretty side-splitting, and frankly I think there's a pretty clear difference. A little before that thread you linked took place, Waxx told chat being gay was banworthy, I told him I was half gay and asked if that was okay, he kickbanned me saying THAT'S 50% TOO MUCH. I remember because I couldn't stop laughing for ten minutes. It was ~funny~ and obviously not targeted at how much all queer people like me are for reals terrible and they should seriously get out because they're not wanted here.
"Subhuman chink language" does not, in fact, sound funny to the majority of us without some pretty amusing context; it makes the people who are typically described as "subhuman chinks" feel unwelcome, which means it was dickish, and yes, it IS our job to police people who we feel are being dicks. If only because it's seriously annoying. It may not annoy you, personally, Nusquam, and it may not annoy all operators (it probably wouldn't have annoyed Waxx or Echo for instance either), but we are all individually gifted with the ability to make our own decisions.
I would have liked to see full context on Gibbons. If it were me, I would have posted context. But that's more a quibble. This was only a 24-hour ban, which does not really need policing from other ops, which is why I didn't even bring it up. Small fuggin' potatoes. If Gibbons couldn't take a trivial time-out without rage-quitting chat and the wiki forever, that's on him. Please recall in Ecks' case how most of the people involved here were resistant to him being banned until he just would not stop targeting female users with unfunny rape jokes.
That's the other bit of irony here: "it's not our job to step up and take offense on behalf of whatever race, culture, religion, orientation, or other subset of the population" is just as much a statement designed to STEP UP AND TAKE OFFENSE on behalf of 4channites, who are the tiny minority of our population (and a tiny minority of our staff members) who think that shit like this is mandatory and always funny no matter what. Because you two - Nusquam and Kain - are policing Xiao here, on behalf of something that offends you, and also would offend this small minority that you belong to.
So yes, if I feel someone is being a dick and not being funny, and they fall under my rule, I will continue to kickban them if I feel like it's warranted. Even if it's involving, say, 4chan-endorsed racism. I don't see any need to give special dispensation to certain stuff like racism just because 4chan enjoys it. We are not 4chan. Be funny and don't be a dick, or get the fuck out.
Also, the argument in the thread you linked doesn't really apply because we're not (and never will) be banning any specific words. I'll repeat myself just in case it hasn't clicked: Make it funny and don't be a dick, or get the fuck out.
Take this up with Waxx if you disagree. In fact, you won't have to, I'm going to personally link him to this thread myself. It is a fact that Waxx belongs to the small 4chan-style minority which I have already referenced, and may also be instinctively offended by Xiao's action. But Waxx chose me, you, and Xiao personally, on the basis of trusting our judgment. And therefore if he will disagrees, I will still dissent.
I'm not policing anyone, nor am I offended. Just stating my opinion. I have not, and have never had, any sort of control or jurisdiction over the chat, nor am I decrying Xiao for what they did. In fact, if Gibbons is going to throw a strop over an incident this small and insignificant, then this was most likely the right thing to do.
Second of all, I don't particularly think any kind of bigotry is particularly funny. I'm not going to lie and say I haven't told those kind of jokes, or laughed at that kind of thing, but I definitely don't think it's the epitome of humor. I may have arrived here from 4chan, but I leave that aspect of internet culture for those boards.
What I personally believe, is that the bigger a deal you make of bigotry, the worse you make it. I don't mean personal attacks or deliberate maliciousness against a people for pointless differences, I mean over reacting to stupid comments, being offended by the mention of certain words, making aggrandising gestures, or beating dead horses. Context sensitive is a major part, but it's not something we can definitively measure, especially over the toneless internet, so yes, it comes down to individual operators. Yes, you found Waxx's comments hilarious, no, you didn't find Gibbons funny at all. There is no line in the sand that says "Fat yank comments are funny, but things like jew gold or queer jokes is right out,". It's up to you guys, and if you're laying down comments with "Heil Hitler", or riffing on Arabic, it's hard to tell what's right and what's wrong, especially when people don't mean it.
You have your opinion, and I have mine. I'm not going to attack you over it, pick it apart, tell you you're wrong (which you're not), pander to you, be condescending, or act offended.
To be entirely frank, I thought subhuman chink language wasn't funny, and somewhat demeaning. Do I think Gibbons should have been asked to tone it down, rather than being banned (though without context, we cannot judge this correctly)? Probably, yeah, if it makes people uncomfortable. Do I think he should have been banned for it? Without knowing the full context in which he said the phrase, probably not. With the magic of hindsight, seeing how he reacted and literally removed himself from the chat and wiki, do I still think he shouldn't have been banned? Not for the comment, but for Wheaton's Law.
To be entirely honest, the only real question I have is why are you so angry at us for voicing our opinion?
To be entirely honest, the only real question I have is why are you so angry at us for voicing our opinion?
I'm … angry?
News to me. Perhaps I should have used smiley faces, but I've been (rightfully) scolded for overusing emoticons before, so please forgive me for erring on the opposite side.
I actually don't disagree with anything you just said, except that I totally think it was fine to kickban for that based on chatop discretion. I don't know context. Shrug.
And the reason I felt it merited a wall of text is because your post and Nusquam's post was intended to get other ops, including myself, to change future behavior that I (at least) don't plan to change. And because I felt Nus's post merited an extensive counter-argument.
And because the last time something like this happened? People made giant arguments (in the thread Nus linked) about how we should never ever censor anything ever, Wheaton's Law be damned, and I think people who share those viewpoints deserve to be engaged.
Yes there's no line in the sand. That's why we get to use our best judgment. Shrug.
It's up to you guys, and if you're laying down comments with "Heil Hitler", or riffing on Arabic, it's hard to tell what's right and what's wrong, especially when people don't mean it.
If people can't tell (which to be fair, it's my opinion that some older members cannot, but I also am not the boss of them), then in my opinion they shouldn't make those jokes, and if they get kickbanned for it, I don't have any sympathy. This is a generally good rule of polite society, and it's pretty useful for avoiding drama. I see where you're coming from, but I still disagree.
(BTW, side note: If Gibbons had a harsher punishment, you better believe I would be reluctantly white knighting for him and hating it the entire time. Ask anyone, or look at my other O5 posts.)
Anyway, I didn't mean to attack any person, just an argument. I am not upset, angry, or offended, I am just blunt.
If you feel personally attacked or upset, I am genuinely sorry, because that was absolutely not my intent.
I do think you are wrong in that 'it is totally fine for us to 24-hr-ban for this kind of thing if we want', and I disagree with your hints to stop doing that, but I also think that's okay, I fully respect you, and I don't feel anything negative towards you for it.
Nah, you just seemed kinda pissed off. Eh, maybe I'm reading too much into the language you're using. I ain't upset either, so don't worry about that.
But yeah, I ain't got shit to do with the chat, nor any experience or wish to. You guys run a tight ship.
You're a cool guy moose. Don't ever change.
…
…man, I get the feeling we should be sharing a beer or something. And I should be hitting on you slightly, because that's what I do with 90% of my male friends, even though I'm straight and have a girlfriend.
Hahaha. Sounds good. Nah, I get it - my straight male friends IRL tend to hit on me, probably at least in part because they enjoy my amused confusion when it happens. :P
You're pretty cool yourself, Kain. I wish you signed onto chat more, and I wish I'd been able to suck you into the writing contest. Kicking myself for not trying to guilt trip. I wanna see more from you, man. :D
Heh. You and me both. I've been writing the mechanics and fluff for Demonic Martial Arts styles for a friends RP system for the past few days, and before that, I was working on a mad science styled RP system called GENIUS. No narrative for a long while though… ^^;
Well this was a touching read.
Now kiss.
Never enough homo
if your reading this your gay
I just want to see the rest of this joke: "A moose and a golden retriever walk into a bar…."
"…the moose said, "You know, I'm the most dangerous thing in Canada.
The retriever looks at the Moose, eyes up and down, and says: 'Nah. No way. You're just a big herbivore.'
Then the moose picked up the golden retriever and threw him against the wall, shouting 'I'll ban who I want, god damnit!'"
"WELL FOUNDATION. YOU MADE IT SO EASY. SO VERY VERY EASY." - dimensionpotato
What the flying-
*gets crushed by a flying moose*
I object to inaccuracies in this adaptation. I'm going to go complain about it all over the internet.
The sun crept through the dusty blinds of the Motel 8. The moose put down his cup of Tim Horton's and went to the bathroom to freshen up.
There was still blood on his antlers, no matter how much he scrubbed. But it didn't matter, tomorrow he'd be across the border and in his new life. But only if the squirrel came through on the forged papers.
The squirrel always came through, though. He had to. He still owed the moose for the Russian affair.
See, now I'm just imagining that weird Fallout Boy video, with the guy who's a deer or some shit.
/forum/t-618105/dr-gibbons#post-