MrAnakinSpecter pause a conversation about nihilism and existentialism and being depressed and considering death and all that good stuff. Greenwolf, Levi and Zhange believed the conversation should not have been stopped.
Dec 17 20:27:41 <djkaktus> Hippo: the larger issue, I guess, is that humans are generally short-term minded because we've all only got like 60 usable years and then we die. If you find yourself in a cushy position and are basically set for life I think most people would be unwilling to give that up.
Dec 17 20:27:53 <Soulless> djkaktus, if tuition waivers count as income a good amount of phds will not be able to afford living and many will not even be allowed to be in the country on the visa (the visa requires the person actually has a certain amount after taxes) etc
Dec 17 20:27:53 <Hippo> yeah
Dec 17 20:27:55 <Tufto> morning all.
Dec 17 20:27:55 <Drakkar> https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1lgvdd/iama_selfpublished_erotica_author_with_over_80/
Dec 17 20:27:57 <Hippo> we are fucking awful at long-term planning
Dec 17 20:28:00 <djkaktus> Because you get a single go at this thing, and if you find yourself in a good spot you hold on to it.
Dec 17 20:28:11 <djkaktus> Because once you're dead it literally will not matter.
Dec 17 20:28:21 <Drakkar> oh here we go
Dec 17 20:28:29 <Drakkar> I think I've read the whole thread and haven't seen anything about pricing. I see you are putting a $2.99 price on 3,000 word stories. Comparison on Amazon leads me to believe you are at the top end of the pricing scale, yet you seem successful. Any guidance here?
Dec 17 20:28:29 <Drakkar> [–]daliadaudelin [S] 1 point 3 years ago
Dec 17 20:28:29 <Drakkar> Sorry for the late reply. 2.99 is actually typical for short erotica among the circle of authors I frequent. My .99 stories barely sell, it's pathetic and a waste of time.
Dec 17 20:28:51 <Drakkar> i knew i was off somehow
Dec 17 20:28:54 <djkaktus> We all talk about legacy like it's something we care about but who gives a fuck seriously. Your consciousness will be obliterated and all the things that you think matter won't by definition because you'll be gone.
Dec 17 20:28:58 <Hippo> djkaktus: i don't think people are consciously aware of that sentiment but i think that's the sentiment in play, yeah
Dec 17 20:29:05 <Hippo> 'i got mine fuck you'
Dec 17 20:29:12 <djkaktus> So it's no surprise that most politicians are loathe to let go of their stuff.
Dec 17 20:29:23 <djkaktus> Or, I guess, people with money.
Dec 17 20:29:24 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> djkaktus: I care ):
Dec 17 20:29:24 <Hippo> the human brain is largely an engine of self-justification
Dec 17 20:29:28 * Athenodora (ua.ten.tenii.nyd.07E9C856-CRInys|tibbiM#ua.ten.tenii.nyd.07E9C856-CRInys|tibbiM) has joined
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Dec 17 20:29:41 <Tufto> djkaktus: but what else do people have but their legacy. it's the only thing that survives of us and could provide our existences with meaning.
Dec 17 20:29:45 <Soulless> drdrakthanks
Dec 17 20:29:48 <Soulless> Drakkar, thanks
Dec 17 20:29:52 <djkaktus> But you don't have legacy, is what I mean.
Dec 17 20:29:53 <djkaktus> Like
Dec 17 20:29:55 <salvagebar> Oh err - you didn't have to answer in the public channel BUT I highly appreciate this because I'm thirsty af and could totally write smut for money
Dec 17 20:30:06 <djkaktus> Legacy is something other people invent to talk about you.
Dec 17 20:30:27 <gnosticprophet> our legacy shall be
Dec 17 20:30:27 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> salvagebar: your voice is good you could do Friends porn
Dec 17 20:30:28 <djkaktus> In a universe with no moral judgment and only oblivion waiting for us, the act of preparing for a legacy is lunacy.
Dec 17 20:30:30 <gnosticprophet> gay monsterboys
Dec 17 20:30:31 <salvagebar> What is Friends porn?
Dec 17 20:30:34 <djkaktus> What's the point in that?
Dec 17 20:30:34 <BoogeyMobile23> Superblobby No worries. Can you get at me in PM maybe about your tennis SCP idea? I just checked out your sandbox quickly, nd it does seem like an interesting setup. But threre's no desc. down.
Dec 17 20:30:37 <Hippo> djkaktus: speak for yourself I am starting a project to create a series of black holes that will spell out my initials in the fucking cosmos
Dec 17 20:30:44 <Levi> salvagebar porn with your friends
Dec 17 20:30:44 <salvagebar> Soulless is right there with me — If you want to collab on smut for money, I am down
Dec 17 20:30:46 <Levi> obvs
Dec 17 20:30:53 <Hippo> 'REMEMBER MEEEEE'
Dec 17 20:30:55 <djkaktus> We do things that are good for each other because that makes our lives more comfortable to liv3
Dec 17 20:31:00 <djkaktus> But once we're gone we're gone
Dec 17 20:31:05 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> salvagebar: did i get the wrong person or were you not the person that bombarded me with Matthew Perry vocaroos
Dec 17 20:31:14 <djkaktus> Whether or not you left anything for the next guy won't matter.
Dec 17 20:31:26 <djkaktus> And it's not even that it's rude or anything, like
Dec 17 20:31:29 <salvagebar> SpecterOfXmasFuture OH yeah you think I sound like Matthew Perry
Dec 17 20:31:31 <Hippo> I mean
Dec 17 20:31:34 <Hippo> it'll matter to the next guy
Dec 17 20:31:35 * Sax|Crosslinking is now known as Sax
Dec 17 20:31:47 <djkaktus> Hippo: it won't matter to you when you're gone.
Dec 17 20:31:51 <Tufto> but the knowledge that humanity outlasts you, and that you have an impact on said people who talk about you, is the only meaning that post people can cling to (apart from we weird religious types). yeah, all that legacy is is the views of others, but those others will pass that on and that on until your actions or person have affected many more people.
Dec 17 20:31:52 <Hippo> Right, but like
Dec 17 20:32:00 <Hippo> It's not about me? I guess? That's maybe an odd way to think of it
Dec 17 20:32:00 <Soulless> Drakkar, maybe I'll write monsterboys on weekends for small dosh
Dec 17 20:32:19 <djkaktus> So far as I know existence starts and ends with my life. This is the only thing I've experienced and the only thing I've ever known.
Dec 17 20:32:21 * mayoculpa (ten.tsacmoc.li.1dsh.480BFBBF-CRInys|tibbiM#ten.tsacmoc.li.1dsh.480BFBBF-CRInys|tibbiM) has joined
Dec 17 20:32:29 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> salvagebar: i am not even kidding you could market that shit you /do/ sound a lot like him
Dec 17 20:32:33 <Soulless> djkaktus, that sounds so strange
Dec 17 20:32:36 <Glitchrr36> man, the weird politics/gay monsterboy related conversations are much more interesting than derivatives
Dec 17 20:32:47 <Soulless> djkaktus, I mean I know it's a very reasonable stance but you know my brain is so off that
Dec 17 20:32:49 <Hippo> I mean everything I do is to satisfy myself, in some sense, so it *is* all about me, but what satisfies me most is doing things that I know will have a positive impact outside of myself
Dec 17 20:32:49 <djkaktus> I'm just saying like
Dec 17 20:32:50 <Soulless> lol
Dec 17 20:32:57 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> djkaktus: no one can /really/ know that
Dec 17 20:33:00 <salvagebar> Is there even a market for Friends porn - the show has been off the air for years
Dec 17 20:33:02 <djkaktus> Legacy is a story we tell ourselves to make us think what we do here matters.
Dec 17 20:33:05 <djkaktus> When it doesn't.
Dec 17 20:33:05 <Soulless> djkaktus, like dang how can you only have one life that's so limiting and scary sounding
Dec 17 20:33:06 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> because none of us are ghosts
Dec 17 20:33:18 <djkaktus> We just do it because whatever. Might as well. You've got 80 years.
Dec 17 20:33:18 <Hippo> haha
Dec 17 20:33:20 <Soulless> SpecterOfXmasFuture, how can I be dead inside and not a ghost explain
Dec 17 20:33:21 * Soulless zing
Dec 17 20:33:55 <Hippo> there are two ways to look at the universe: absolutely nothing matters, or absolutely everything matters
Dec 17 20:33:56 <salvagebar> Thanks for the positive outlook djkaktus
Dec 17 20:34:17 <Hippo> maybe there's a third or fourth way in there too I don't know what the Taoists are up to
Dec 17 20:34:35 <djkaktus> I mean I'm not ever going to say anything that anyone likes here because I have this super pessimistic view of dying
Dec 17 20:34:36 * Sax yawneth
Dec 17 20:34:38 <Sax> .lc
Dec 17 20:34:40 <jarvis> sax: SCP-3238: Green Gas (written an hour ago by Sad Xiao) - http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-3238
Dec 17 20:34:40 <jarvis> sax: SCP-3991: The Infinite Taco (written an hour ago by Vincent Yeadon) - http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-3991
Dec 17 20:34:40 <jarvis> sax: SCP-3204: Creating a Spectacle (written 2 hours ago by Tothala) - http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-3204
Dec 17 20:34:48 <djkaktus> Lmao
Dec 17 20:34:50 <djkaktus> Like
Dec 17 20:34:51 <Soulless> djkaktus, nah I also think that human life is limited to its own human lifespan
Dec 17 20:34:54 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> djkaktus: you don't say?
Dec 17 20:34:54 <Hippo> djkaktus: that's fair it's just interesting to me that I have kind of the opposite view
Dec 17 20:34:57 <Soulless> djkaktus, I just think it's curious that there's nothing more
Dec 17 20:35:02 <Soulless> bnut you know me
Dec 17 20:35:07 <superblobby> xavier woods is handing out pancakes
Dec 17 20:35:07 <mayoculpa> one of those 001 proposals had a thing about normal, regular death that is still messing with my mind
Dec 17 20:35:07 <salvagebar> I know I will die and rot in wormy earth - I am blithe to this, I accept it
Dec 17 20:35:10 <superblobby> I am officially dead
Dec 17 20:35:10 <Soulless> I don't dent that human life is only the lifespan of humans
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Dec 17 20:35:30 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> jesus christ you people are depressing
Dec 17 20:35:45 <Hippo> naw, specterofXmasfuture
Dec 17 20:35:48 <Klurg> Anakin, why else do you think we need the memes
Dec 17 20:35:49 <Hippo> the depression was the friends we made along the way
Dec 17 20:35:51 <djkaktus> There is little I wouldn't do if I knew I could ensure a long and comfortable life for myself because once I'm out that's it lol
Dec 17 20:35:56 <Klurg> It hides our true nature
Dec 17 20:36:09 <Drakkar> <&Soulless> Drakkar, maybe I'll write monsterboys on weekends for small dosh
Dec 17 20:36:13 <superblobby> any of y'all watching clash of the champions?
Dec 17 20:36:15 <Drakkar> the thing i think that makes it good is its like
Dec 17 20:36:16 <Tufto> djkaktus: eh, well, fair enough, each to their own.
Dec 17 20:36:16 <Soulless> My view is that human lifespan is limited to the human living it, but also it doesn't matter because there's always something after it too, so why not be giving and generous, at worst you'll have something else along the way
Dec 17 20:36:20 <Drakkar> its not a huge amount of effort
Dec 17 20:36:22 <Drakkar> and more importantly
Dec 17 20:36:24 <superblobby> More specifically the New Day handing out pancakes
Dec 17 20:36:26 <Drakkar> its behind a pseudonym
Dec 17 20:36:35 <Klurg> https://pics.me.me/hey-memer-why-do-you-always-wear-that-mask-memes-4574272.png relevant
Dec 17 20:36:35 <Soulless> Drakkar, how do I get editor and get noticed and stuff?
Dec 17 20:36:37 <salvagebar> SpecterOfXmasFuture I accept my limits, and life can still be cool sometimes
Dec 17 20:36:38 * Gaffsey has quit (Ping timeout: 182 seconds)
Dec 17 20:36:41 <Drakkar> pure luck
Dec 17 20:36:43 <Soulless> Drakkar, oh
Dec 17 20:36:45 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> djkaktus: it's like i am talking to ayn rand herself. are you sure you are not a ghost?
Dec 17 20:36:47 <mayoculpa> maybe there's a material part and an energy pat and they both phase into other bits of the ecosystem after you die
Dec 17 20:36:48 <Soulless> Drakkar, how do I get cover?
Dec 17 20:36:53 <salvagebar> Drakkar has given me hope I can make money writing smut
Dec 17 20:36:56 <Drakkar> oh thats actually way easier
Dec 17 20:37:00 <djkaktus> It also imparts a certain anxiety to the whole thing. I'm depressed because the human station is short and meaningless but oblivion terrifies me so I don't want to die.
Dec 17 20:37:00 <salvagebar> THAT IS WORTH LIVING FOR
Dec 17 20:37:02 <Soulless> Drakkar, oh ook
Dec 17 20:37:06 <Soulless> Drakkar, are there guides on this
Dec 17 20:37:12 <Drakkar> there -were-
Dec 17 20:37:12 <mayoculpa> oblivion »> hell
Dec 17 20:37:15 <Drakkar> it was on SA
Dec 17 20:37:16 <Soulless> o
Dec 17 20:37:18 <Hippo> djkaktus: just, like, on a basic level — humans are social creatures — we evolved to enjoy each other's company (to some degree) and work together to benefit one another — so it seems like the best way to achieve happiness for a single human would be to do things that benefit many humans
Dec 17 20:37:19 <Soulless> djkaktus, gm
Dec 17 20:37:22 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> i love that game
Dec 17 20:37:22 <Drakkar> i can dig it up if you have an account
Dec 17 20:37:25 <salvagebar> Soulless Drakkar — let's collab on anomalous porn
Dec 17 20:37:34 <djkaktus> mayoculpa: honestly no because hell implies continued consciences
Dec 17 20:37:34 <Hippo> i mean maybe that's not true for everyone
Dec 17 20:37:38 <Soulless> Drakkar, an account on what
Dec 17 20:37:45 <Soulless> salvagebar, nah I'm bad at collabing
Dec 17 20:37:49 <djkaktus> Consciousness rather
Dec 17 20:37:52 <salvagebar> ok Soulless
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Dec 17 20:38:01 <djkaktus> Which is infinitely better than none
Dec 17 20:38:06 <djkaktus> Even in torment
Dec 17 20:38:18 <Hippo> IDK oblivion doesn't scare me
Dec 17 20:38:20 <Drakkar> somethingawful
Dec 17 20:38:23 <Hippo> maybe that's part of the divide
Dec 17 20:38:27 <Tufto> nah oblivion is scary.
Dec 17 20:38:29 <Drakkar> it should be in the archives or something at this point
Dec 17 20:38:43 <Hippo> like my response to oblivion is "jesus about time"
Dec 17 20:38:46 * DDR has quit (Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution)
Dec 17 20:38:46 <DolphinSlugchugger> oh i know somethingawful
Dec 17 20:38:46 <djkaktus> SpecterOfXmasFuture: Idgaf about ayn rand and I honestly don't appreciate the comparison but whatever
Dec 17 20:38:49 <Soulless> Drakkar, I am not on the SA forums I am sorryh
Dec 17 20:38:52 <DolphinSlugchugger> the name "furry" wasnt taken
Dec 17 20:38:52 <Drakkar> the vice article has some info
Dec 17 20:38:53 <Athenodora> one last time but
Dec 17 20:38:54 <mayoculpa> that's what I mean though djkaktus: if you just stop when you die then you don't know you're not there. cause you're not there
Dec 17 20:38:56 <Athenodora> lookie my selfie https://scontent.fmel1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25289166_1785166321514402_1520067716241198408_n.jpg?oh=bbef16def2b9dc618138591527aae962&oe=5AD39876
Dec 17 20:38:57 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> i guess it is pretty scary considering the graphics downgrade, i did like skyrim better
Dec 17 20:38:59 <Athenodora> :3
Dec 17 20:39:22 <Soulless> djkaktus, I'm the opposite
Dec 17 20:39:29 <Soulless> djkaktus, I prefer oblivion to an unhappy life
Dec 17 20:39:37 <Drakkar> i'll .tell you some info on the cover artists b/c my friend is still doing kindle erotica
Dec 17 20:39:39 <Drakkar> and she should know
Dec 17 20:39:42 <mayoculpa> if you have to continue to exist in some form, if whatever form that is is llikely to be worse than this world? which is terrible for many people?
Dec 17 20:39:42 <Hippo> hum
Dec 17 20:39:49 <Soulless> Drakkar, I really appreciate it
Dec 17 20:39:55 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> djkaktus: "There is little I wouldn't do if I knew I could ensure a long and comfortable life for myself because once I'm out that's it lol" that's what i was referring to
Dec 17 20:39:55 <djkaktus> You prefer the total erasure of consciousness to consciousness at all?
Dec 17 20:39:57 <Drakkar> lately my time has been occupied by a handful of tabletop rpgs i'm working on
Dec 17 20:40:01 * Zhange (hself.wen.eht.li|h.lla#hself.wen.eht.li|h.lla) has joined
Dec 17 20:40:01 * Salabasama (~moc.retrahc.nt.tpgk.pchd.CA4B9D7-CRInys|afatsum#moc.retrahc.nt.tpgk.pchd.CA4B9D7-CRInys|afatsum) has joined
Dec 17 20:40:08 <DolphinSlugchugger> monsterboy smut
Dec 17 20:40:09 <Soulless> djkaktus, yes, what's the point of consciousness if you're not enjoying it
Dec 17 20:40:13 <Drakkar> cuz i wanna get that train rolling
Dec 17 20:40:18 <djkaktus> Being conscious, for one.
Dec 17 20:40:19 <DolphinSlugchugger> im down
Dec 17 20:40:19 <Soulless> djkaktus, in my mind, life is only worth living if it is worth living
Dec 17 20:40:23 <Zhange> man
Dec 17 20:40:24 <Tufto> kaktus is right, oblivion means that existence is over, and essentially never happened. it's kinda horrifying. only way to get over it is to find meaning beyond it, but all the meanings you create are going to be products of our own inferior human minds, without external validation. so the trick is not to mind that everything you do and every meaning and lega
Dec 17 20:40:28 <DolphinSlugchugger> let me write monsterboy smut
Dec 17 20:40:29 <mayoculpa> total erasure *would* be better than unending torture. hence, oblivion > hell.
Dec 17 20:40:30 <Soulless> djkaktus, otherwise, being alive only means a capacity for suffering
Dec 17 20:40:30 <DolphinSlugchugger> OH WAIT
Dec 17 20:40:37 <DolphinSlugchugger> .sea alto clef jr
Dec 17 20:40:37 <jarvis> dolphinslugchugger: Alto Clef Jr.: Fins of the Father (written 2 years ago by DolphinSlugchugger; rating: +15) - http://www.scp-wiki.net/alto-clef-jr-fins-of-the-father
Dec 17 20:40:40 <mayoculpa> hence why I'm an annohilationist, religiously speaking
Dec 17 20:40:42 <Soulless> djkaktus, then again I ndon't fear nonexistence
Dec 17 20:40:45 <DolphinSlugchugger> this is technically
Dec 17 20:40:46 <Tufto> cy you create is your own product, that it's inherently flawed because it's the creation of a flawed person.
Dec 17 20:40:47 <mayoculpa> annihilationist*
Dec 17 20:40:49 <Zhange> why is it that on the internet, quality and effort is inversely proportional to success?
Dec 17 20:40:50 <Tufto> or something like that idk.
Dec 17 20:40:52 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> i dislike the whole "do what i want to make me happy and fuck the consequences because everyone dies" mentality
Dec 17 20:40:55 <djkaktus> This is also basically why I wrote 3000 so now you know.
Dec 17 20:41:01 <Tufto> Zhange: people are stupid and want easy shit.
Dec 17 20:41:05 <djkaktus> Soulless: that's sort of sad tbh
Dec 17 20:41:09 <Soulless> djkaktus, I know
Dec 17 20:41:11 * liimewiire (ten.sulet.aishba.3681C43A-CRInys|tibbiM#ten.sulet.aishba.3681C43A-CRInys|tibbiM) has joined
Dec 17 20:41:12 <Zhange> chat sure is lively today
Dec 17 20:41:13 <Athenodora> heh that reminds me
Dec 17 20:41:16 <Zhange> Tufto: true
Dec 17 20:41:18 <djkaktus> Nonexistence is like
Dec 17 20:41:19 <Soulless> djkaktus, I don't love life and I am not in love with living
Dec 17 20:41:27 <djkaktus> God
Dec 17 20:41:29 <mayoculpa> I think there may be a good afterlife, and hope I'm not wrong. but I think if there's no afterlife, it's not like I'd be in a position to complain
Dec 17 20:41:39 <mayoculpa> :p
Dec 17 20:41:40 <Tufto> Soulless: the only way you can even not love life is because you're alive.
Dec 17 20:41:40 <Soulless> djkaktus, I only live because it is enjoyable for now, and when it stops nothing is stoppiong me fro also stopping, I guess
Dec 17 20:41:42 <Athenodora> I was asking around re. the differences between Absurdism, Existentialism and Nihilism earlier
Dec 17 20:41:46 <djkaktus> I don't think there's anything worse than the moment you realize you're about to stop existing.
Dec 17 20:41:46 <Soulless> Tufto, yes, exactly
Dec 17 20:41:57 <djkaktus> I guess if it gets to that I just hope I'm not aware of it.
Dec 17 20:42:03 <Soulless> djkaktus, yeah, I understand
Dec 17 20:42:08 <JackIke> Oh dear https://i.imgur.com/vQEh0zj.png
Dec 17 20:42:09 <mayoculpa> I adore life cause me and the people close to me are ok and I get to do stuff I like and not be scared all the time. this is rare on earth
Dec 17 20:42:10 <liimewiire> woah shid i walked in on some existenstial bs
Dec 17 20:42:12 <Zhange> I dream of a day when all posts on the internet are high-quality and thoughtful, without a single meme or shitpost in sight
Dec 17 20:42:13 <Athenodora> like, which one of those is compatible with a message of "let's worship the Olympian gods and/or the Mesopotamian gods, them cool & make your blood feel alive"?
Dec 17 20:42:22 <Hippo> djkaktus: i think like, and I don't mean this as a way of passing judgment on you — but a common thread among people I know who have suffered a *lot* of pain, and have rarely had anything comfortable in their lives, is a failure to find oblivion very terrifying
Dec 17 20:42:23 * Athenodora is writing a mythology fic
Dec 17 20:42:26 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> JackIke: that sucks. this isn't the way to protest.
Dec 17 20:42:32 <Zhange> djkaktus: hey, you okay?
Dec 17 20:42:32 * Athenodora so catering to the gods is kinda part of the premise :P
Dec 17 20:42:33 <Soulless> Zhange, there was shitposting in day 1 of the internet I guarantee it
Dec 17 20:42:47 <NineVolt> Zhange: Implying that shitposts aren't infinite
Dec 17 20:42:49 <Hippo> djkaktus: a lot of them even kind of welcome it? like, I know at least a few people who don't have much regard for their own life
Dec 17 20:42:52 <Soulless> Zhange, I guarantee the first day the internet happened, there was shitposting
Dec 17 20:42:54 <Zhange> Soulless: such is life
Dec 17 20:42:56 <mayoculpa> guarantee one of the first ten images, if not THE frist, ever sent on the internet was a picture of boobs
Dec 17 20:43:09 <DolphinSlugchugger> hippo: yuuuup
Dec 17 20:43:12 <Soulless> Hippo, djkaktus has been through a ton
Dec 17 20:43:12 <djkaktus> Hippo: that's the thing though. There's by definition nothing to welcome.
Dec 17 20:43:13 <Hippo> which is both terrible but kind of understandable
Dec 17 20:43:13 <NineVolt> mayoculpa: Or cats
Dec 17 20:43:15 <djkaktus> It's not a respite.
Dec 17 20:43:21 <Zhange> Soulless: it's hard to change the internet's very nature
Dec 17 20:43:24 <Hippo> soulless: fair yeah and i didn't, want to imply otherwise
Dec 17 20:43:27 <Soulless> Hippo, j/s djkaktus has been through some /shit/
Dec 17 20:43:28 <Soulless> ye
Dec 17 20:43:30 <djkaktus> It's not some kind of relief or resignation or anything
Dec 17 20:43:33 <mayoculpa> ninevolt either way some manner of feline folderol ;)
Dec 17 20:43:36 <djkaktus> It's literally nothing.
Dec 17 20:43:45 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> i think we're all lucky that, if even for a moment, we got to experience life.
Dec 17 20:43:46 <DolphinSlugchugger> thats respite
Dec 17 20:43:46 <Hippo> soulless: like i have no idea what they've been through and I don't want to presume so — if I did — I def. apologize
Dec 17 20:43:53 <DolphinSlugchugger> i hate thinking
Dec 17 20:43:55 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> this world is a wonderful place with wonderful people and things
Dec 17 20:44:12 <Tufto> djkaktus: but the world goes on even if you don't.
Dec 17 20:44:12 <djkaktus> I think the reason people consider death to be anything but an inescapable, unfair horror is that they're not considering that it's not an escape from life
Dec 17 20:44:15 <Hippo> just in my (notably limited) experience a lot of people i know who have been in pain for a long time aren't afraid of oblivion
Dec 17 20:44:19 <Tufto> does that provide no comfort?
Dec 17 20:44:22 <mayoculpa> but if your consciousness no longer exists, then it's like the part of falling asleep when you're not dreaming. you're not there anymore. you won't be dealing with anything scary and unpleasant because you won't be ther
Dec 17 20:44:25 <DolphinSlugchugger> its
Dec 17 20:44:26 <djkaktus> It's nothing.
Dec 17 20:44:31 <DolphinSlugchugger> definitionally an escape from life
Dec 17 20:44:39 <JackIke> SpecterOfXmasFuture: Yeah, definitely; getting angry is one thing but like, they've released details for his family too
Dec 17 20:44:47 <mayoculpa> or if there's an afterlife, then it's just… life with new rules
Dec 17 20:44:48 <DolphinSlugchugger> it's not nothing because you can provably define the boundaries between alive and dead
Dec 17 20:44:49 <JackIke> Like, that's dangerous considering how people've reacted to FCC
Dec 17 20:44:58 <Hippo> djkaktus: right, i mean — i don't think you're wrong to fear it, but i can also see the other side of it; I can see why some people wouldn't fear it at all
Dec 17 20:45:03 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> JackIke: his family? holy shit
Dec 17 20:45:09 <djkaktus> DolphinSlugchugger: the cessation of consciousness is nothing.
Dec 17 20:45:19 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> you just know some nutter out there is going to go too far
Dec 17 20:45:20 <DolphinSlugchugger> it is reflexively the cessation of consciousness
Dec 17 20:45:29 <djkaktus> It is not the start of another chapter, it's not a release from the torments of this life
Dec 17 20:45:33 <djkaktus> It is a definitive end.
Dec 17 20:45:38 <Hippo> djkaktus: right, and like
Dec 17 20:45:42 <djkaktus> A point past which you are not.
Dec 17 20:45:48 <Tufto> like, yeah, there will be nothing left of us, but the world will still be there. there will still be history and good people and bad people and an endless load of narratives and stories and shit going on, and more people will live even if we no longer do, and everything will still be there and still changing and even if its actors never see it and are never a
Dec 17 20:45:50 <DolphinSlugchugger> if consciousness is unpleasant, the cessation of consciousness is not unpleasant
Dec 17 20:45:51 <Hippo> i can see how some people would find that a comfort — the notion that there is an end
Dec 17 20:45:53 <Tufto> ble to see it, it's all still going to be there.
Dec 17 20:45:53 <mayoculpa> what you think about death before it happens, if it is indeed the end, means whatever it means to you while you're alive
Dec 17 20:46:00 <Soulless> djkaktus, I find the idea that it is nothing very interesting
Dec 17 20:46:10 <JackIke> SpecterOfXmasFuture: His details, his wife's, his parent's… there's similar details for a number of other people on FCC too
Dec 17 20:46:10 <Zhange> djkaktus: ?
Dec 17 20:46:24 <djkaktus> DolphinSlugchugger: it can't not be unpleasant because it's not anything
Dec 17 20:46:24 <JackIke> SpecterOfXmasFuture: They put it up on pastebin <Some documents>
Dec 17 20:46:31 <djkaktus> It's a cessation, not a reprieve.
Dec 17 20:46:37 <Hippo> 'at some point, my consciousness will cease and i will be no more. There won't be any more pain, joy, sorrow, love — nothing. Just non-existence. I will no longer *be*'
Dec 17 20:46:40 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> jackike: …
Dec 17 20:46:40 <DolphinSlugchugger> nothing can be a reprieve
Dec 17 20:46:42 <Hippo> like to some people I can see how that's
Dec 17 20:46:47 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> jackike: don't post it here!
Dec 17 20:46:49 <Hippo> something they might welcome
Dec 17 20:46:56 <djkaktus> DolphinSlugchugger: how is something a reprieve if you can't experience it?
Dec 17 20:47:03 <djkaktus> You're not comforted by dying
Dec 17 20:47:03 <Levi> SpecterOfXmasFuture why not
Dec 17 20:47:06 <djkaktus> You just stop existing.
Dec 17 20:47:10 <mayoculpa> if alive-you considers that death will be a reprieve, then the hope of that reprieve has meaning, even if after the person's death they're not present to enjoy it
Dec 17 20:47:10 <subtletea> dude, don't post doxx
Dec 17 20:47:13 <Hippo> you're comforted by the *prospect8 of dying
Dec 17 20:47:16 <DolphinSlugchugger> before i die there's comfort provided by it
Dec 17 20:47:19 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> levi: it's personal informatino!
Dec 17 20:47:22 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> in fact
Dec 17 20:47:26 <subtletea> information, too
Dec 17 20:47:32 * SpecterOfXmasFuture has kicked JackIke from #site19 (No posting personal information.)
Dec 17 20:47:36 <mayoculpa> doxx are bad and posting of doxx should make you feel bad
Dec 17 20:47:37 <djkaktus> DolphinSlugchugger: I just
Dec 17 20:47:42 * mlister (ksamtsoh.ks|m.tsoh#ksamtsoh.ks|m.tsoh) has joined
Dec 17 20:47:46 <djkaktus> Idk whatever
Dec 17 20:47:52 <BoogeyMobile23> .seen serkmobile
Dec 17 20:47:53 <jarvis> boogeymobile23: serkmobile was last seen 22 minutes ago saying: ….
Dec 17 20:47:55 <Tufto> DolphinSlugchugger Hippo but oblivion is non-experience. it's nothing. from the point of view of the dead, there is no point of view. nothing ever had existed or will exist, existence doesn't exist because there's nobody to experience it.
Dec 17 20:47:56 <mlister> Back
Dec 17 20:47:57 <Levi> SpecterOfXmasFuture to government officials who's decisions affect us
Dec 17 20:48:03 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> levi: …
Dec 17 20:48:07 <Hippo> yeah, tufto
Dec 17 20:48:12 <Tufto> it is scary.
Dec 17 20:48:12 <djkaktus> Lmao there's no point getting worked up about it, it's not like it matters anyway
Dec 17 20:48:14 <Levi> i think we have a goddamn right to know their contact info
Dec 17 20:48:16 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> levi: they are still people and their families have jack shit to do with their choices
Dec 17 20:48:17 <DolphinSlugchugger> tufto: yes
Dec 17 20:48:21 <DolphinSlugchugger> no
Dec 17 20:48:22 <Soulless> djkaktus, you are good people your face is good
Dec 17 20:48:25 <DolphinSlugchugger> it is not scary
Dec 17 20:48:26 <mayoculpa> if you have dread of death while you're still alive, then you've bought trouble for yourself for no reason, if you'll really be gone
Dec 17 20:48:26 <Hippo> tufto: i don't disagree that it can *be* scary
Dec 17 20:48:28 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> levi: what the fuck actually?
Dec 17 20:48:29 <Zhange> djkaktus: are you alright?
Dec 17 20:48:31 <Tufto> but there has to be a point beyond that because what the fuck else are we going to do.
Dec 17 20:48:38 <DolphinSlugchugger> it is nothing
Dec 17 20:48:41 <Levi> SpecterOfXmasFuture is it information to their familes directly? if so, yes, it's fucked up.
Dec 17 20:48:44 <DolphinSlugchugger> if you can't be relieved why can you fear?
Dec 17 20:48:48 <Hippo> tufto: i just disagree that it is inherently scary to everyone
Dec 17 20:48:49 <Soulless> Levi, you have a right ot his office info and shit but not his wife and parents come on
Dec 17 20:48:51 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> levi: yes it is directly
Dec 17 20:48:53 <Soulless> Levi, leave his wife alone
Dec 17 20:48:54 <djkaktus> Zhange: yeah I guess.
Dec 17 20:48:56 <Hippo> and that people who are not scared have 'failed to understand'
Dec 17 20:49:01 <DolphinSlugchugger> what does it mean to fear if there isn't anything to compare it against?
Dec 17 20:49:01 <Levi> SpecterOfXmasFuture alright then yes its fucked up.
Dec 17 20:49:06 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> leave their parents and children out of it
Dec 17 20:49:10 <Levi> Soulless i didn't know, okay.
Dec 17 20:49:16 <mayoculpa> for the sake of argument, again - if there's no me after death, then the *only* part that matters is the part experienced by alive-me
Dec 17 20:49:16 <Soulless> Levi, ok
Dec 17 20:49:19 <Tufto> Hippo: mm, I suppose.
Dec 17 20:49:20 <Levi> i'm sorry
Dec 17 20:49:22 <Soulless> it happens
Dec 17 20:49:26 <Tufto> everyone experiences everything differently.
Dec 17 20:49:32 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> and hell we actually DON'T have a right to know their personal information like the addresses of their homes and not just their offices
Dec 17 20:49:33 <Tufto> everyone percieves everything differently.
Dec 17 20:49:50 <Tufto> even the idea of oblivion is an idea we invented with our flawed minds.
Dec 17 20:50:13 <liimewiire> and we're questioning the meaning of life in this chilis tonight
Dec 17 20:50:30 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> djkaktus: Are you okay, man? Like, for real?
Dec 17 20:50:45 <Hippo> tufto: right, yeah — that's a part of it. Like IDK, imagine, like — a place where you can't see any future for yourself or the people you care about; where everything is just going to get increasingly worse, and the future is just a dark, terrible place full of suffering and death
Dec 17 20:50:51 <Tufto> yes are you ok kaktus :/.
Dec 17 20:50:59 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> djkaktus: this extreme nihilism attitude of yours is worrying me
Dec 17 20:51:04 <Hippo> knowing you won't get to see that, that at some point it'll end for you, that could be comforting
Dec 17 20:51:18 * truffles (mu.ni|lp.rats#mu.ni|lp.rats) has joined
Dec 17 20:51:18 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to truffles
Dec 17 20:51:26 <Hippo> and there's at least a few people i know who see it that way, and with p. good reason i think?
Dec 17 20:51:40 <mayoculpa> everyone gets to ascribe whatever meaning to death fits with their own worldview. It's not the sort of thing anyone can prevent anyone else to do
Dec 17 20:51:51 <mayoculpa> er, prevent from doing or force to do
Dec 17 20:51:53 <DolphinSlugchugger> in another argument
Dec 17 20:52:04 <Tufto> Hippo: I suppose, but…
Dec 17 20:52:07 <Tufto> it's like
Dec 17 20:52:07 <DolphinSlugchugger> one of the most primal fears i believe most humans have is the removal of agency
Dec 17 20:52:08 <Soulless> mayoculpa, I would disagree
Dec 17 20:52:10 <Bennings> Anyway, I'm off
Dec 17 20:52:10 <mayoculpa> you can force a person to physically go to a religious institution but you can't make them /believe/
Dec 17 20:52:11 <Zhange> hey kaktus?
Dec 17 20:52:12 <Bennings> Bye
Dec 17 20:52:15 <Tufto> the great unknown.
Dec 17 20:52:20 <Modern_Erasmus> This chat is getting more nihilistic than Rasksolnikov’s tweets rn
Dec 17 20:52:23 <djkaktus> At the end of the day life is inherently unfair. You're given the briefest moment to experience consciousness but every moment of that experience is plauged by the knowledge that someday it will be stolen away from you and you'll just stop being forever, and there won't be anything ever again. Life is beautiful but it's also horrible and fleeting and a curse.
Dec 17 20:52:23 <Zhange> I'm not sure exactly what's going on
Dec 17 20:52:26 <BusyWolf> mayoculpa: brainwashing
Dec 17 20:52:33 * Bennings (ten.mnigriv.elbac.C94F9F6E-CRInys|tibbiM#ten.mnigriv.elbac.C94F9F6E-CRInys|tibbiM) has left
Dec 17 20:52:35 <Soulless> mayoculpa, I would disagree with people who do the jones cult thing
Dec 17 20:52:36 <subtletea> Zhange: me either
Dec 17 20:52:38 <DolphinSlugchugger> if one chooses their time to die, that is actively a concession of agency
Dec 17 20:52:42 <mayoculpa> busywolf, am a survivor of same
Dec 17 20:52:46 <Zhange> but please stay safe
Dec 17 20:52:50 <djkaktus> You all don't need to worry about me, though. If I've expressed anything here tonight it's that I'm too afraid of dying to die willingly.
Dec 17 20:52:51 <mlister> subtletea Zhange I joined in the middle of convo
Dec 17 20:52:51 <djkaktus> So
Dec 17 20:52:56 <djkaktus> Whaddya gonna do.
Dec 17 20:52:56 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> djkaktus: you've said as much earlier. i am asking if you are all right, not what your political or spiritual beliefs are
Dec 17 20:53:00 <Tufto> well ok that's good :p.
Dec 17 20:53:00 <mlister> subtletea Zhange Imagine how confused I am
Dec 17 20:53:04 <Tufto> but nihilism just seems so
Dec 17 20:53:05 <Hippo> tufto: I mean I legit know people who have made it clear to me they would much prefer oblivion to their continued existence
Dec 17 20:53:08 <mayoculpa> there is always a part they can't reach
Dec 17 20:53:08 <Zhange> djkaktus: you're an amazing person and we all love having you here
Dec 17 20:53:14 <Hippo> usually it's a temporary state tho
Dec 17 20:53:26 <mayoculpa> there is always a part that belongs only to oneself
Dec 17 20:53:27 * fieldstone (moc.duolccri.notlrahc.277989B4-CRInys|189942diu#moc.duolccri.notlrahc.277989B4-CRInys|189942diu) has joined
Dec 17 20:53:28 <Tufto> Hippo: but they don't know what oblivion is like, is all. I do see your point though.
Dec 17 20:53:29 <Hippo> like it's the depression talking or something
Dec 17 20:53:33 <Zhange> djkaktus: I like you
Dec 17 20:53:37 <mayoculpa> it's just really, really hard to get at sometimes
Dec 17 20:53:46 <Hippo> right but they know oblivion is *nothing* and to them non-existence is better than existence
Dec 17 20:53:50 <djkaktus> SpecterOfXmasFuture: no not really, I don't think.
Dec 17 20:54:04 <Tufto> nihilism just seems so, idk, self-defeating. yeah, there might be no meaning and it might all end in nothingness but it's better to rage than to mutely accept it.
Dec 17 20:54:06 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> djkaktus: would you like to talk to me about it in PM?
Dec 17 20:54:22 <stormfallen> drown your nihilism in dank memes
Dec 17 20:54:24 <djkaktus> There's no talking my way out of it, either. There's no being convinced otherwise. Short of meeting God firsthand I'm not about to pick up religion.
Dec 17 20:54:25 <stormfallen> the GAW way
Dec 17 20:54:35 <djkaktus> I appreciate the offer but this is just what it is you know
Dec 17 20:54:35 <Tufto> Hippo: mm, fair enough.
Dec 17 20:54:40 <DolphinSlugchugger> tufto: that's one of the principles of nihilism ain't it? that if it's nothing, and things feel good, why not feel good?
Dec 17 20:54:40 <Hippo> tufto: i mean I am on the rage-against-the-night side of the equation def. — i just, dunno, always get hesitant about telling people they're wrong to not be afraid
Dec 17 20:54:46 <mayoculpa> our personalities and belief systems are the interface through which we experience the universe. either in the brief time we have with it at all, or the brief time we have in this form
Dec 17 20:54:52 <Tufto> Hippo: yeah I get that.
Dec 17 20:54:55 <Levi> Tufto that's kinda the point tho. plus, raging implies that there's something big worth fighting for
Dec 17 20:54:56 <Levi> idk
Dec 17 20:54:58 <Tufto> I don't want to try to force anything on anyone.
Dec 17 20:55:03 <djkaktus> It just all feels so unkind.
Dec 17 20:55:08 <Soulless> mayoculpa, pm
Dec 17 20:55:08 <djkaktus> Like it's a mean joke.
Dec 17 20:55:18 <Levi> i just kinda accept that i'm insignificant and fucking worthless
Dec 17 20:55:22 <Tufto> Levi: there might be, we don't know. I don't mean in a religious way, I mean there's usually some angle we haven't considered.
Dec 17 20:55:26 <Modern_Erasmus> Meh, life is the longest thing we do
Dec 17 20:55:26 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> yeah okay
Dec 17 20:55:27 <Hippo> yeah — and also I've kind of made peace with all this junk in my head long ago >_> which IDK might mean I just have failed to understand it, haha
Dec 17 20:55:27 <djkaktus> "here's something beautiful and wonderful and someday you're going to lose all of it"
Dec 17 20:55:40 <Hippo> djkaktus: oh man do you ever read achewood
Dec 17 20:55:42 <Levi> Modern_Erasmus i thought it was your mom
Dec 17 20:55:42 <Modern_Erasmus> No use looking a gift horse in the mouth
Dec 17 20:55:48 <mlister> Levi You're not worthless
Dec 17 20:55:49 <djkaktus> Idk whatever I'm going to go drink and stare at the sky for a while.
Dec 17 20:55:53 <Hippo> "marriage is basically just a decision to watch the person you love most die"
Dec 17 20:55:55 <mlister> Levi You have unimaginable worth
Dec 17 20:56:05 <Hippo> roast beef is my patronus
Dec 17 20:56:07 <Tufto> Levi: yeah you have worth.
Dec 17 20:56:18 <Levi> nah not really
Dec 17 20:56:23 * SpecterOfXmasFuture sets mode +m on #site19
Dec 17 20:56:25 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> Okay
Dec 17 20:56:33 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> So here's how this is going to work.
Dec 17 20:56:56 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> We are going to stop talking about this entire nihilistic depressing stuff.
Dec 17 20:57:05 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> And speculation about religion/spirituality/whatever.
Dec 17 20:57:14 <SpecterOfXmasFuture> You are free to continue any conversation in PM, but not here.
Dec 17 20:57:24 * SpecterOfXmasFuture sets mode -m on #site19
The complaint:
<BusyWolf> Hey, I want to contest that stop order that anakinspecter just gave
<BusyWolf> that seems entirely inappropriate and not a proper use of op power
<SpecterOfXmasFuture> Okay.
<Soulless> Hello, I may field that concern
<BusyWolf> nobody was breaking any rules and a lot of people were participating in that conversation
<Levi> I'm seconding this.
<BusyWolf> putting a stop to an entirely rule-following and productive conversation just because you, personally, don't enjoy it
<Zhange> thirding
<BusyWolf> is entirely inappropriate
<BusyWolf> this is not the first time that Anakin has done this, but it's maybe the most egregious
- subtletea is now known as teawrites
<Soulless> Would your opinion change if there were members or other people who expressed or felt discomfort regarding the conversation?
<BusyWolf> no
<BusyWolf> if you don't enjoy a conversation, you don't have to participate
<BusyWolf> but ending a conversation that hasn't broken any rules solely because you (or somebody else) doesn't like it
<BusyWolf> is kind of super shitty?
<Soulless> It may not merely be that it is a "doesn't like it", it may also be a "i believe this conversation is veering towards supporting self-harming acts and unhealthy beliefs, such as the glorification of suicide and suicide ideation"
<BusyWolf> well then you should say that in the stop order
<BusyWolf> because as phrased
<BusyWolf> it seems like anakin was ending the conversation solely because they didn't like it
<BusyWolf> which is extremely inappropriate staff behavior
<Tufto> I did not see that in what anakin said at all.
<Soulless> So you would not have issue if an op stopped the conversation for those reasons?
<SpecterOfXmasFuture> It would not be in the best interest of the chat, regardless of what you perceive greenwolf, if I had specifically mentioned suicide. It is a very personal topic and not something everyone is comfortable seeing.
<Soulless> BusyWolf, I should clarify I am not trying to challengs you insofar as I am trying to get at the specific issue
<BusyWolf> the specific issue is that a conversation that hadn't violated any rules and was being conducted in a civil and productive manner was preemptively ended by a staff member
<BusyWolf> that is the core of the issue
<BusyWolf> there is an /additional/ issue with anakin having a history of ending conversations in such a manner
<Soulless> Yes, and my question is: Would this be a problem if the reaon cited was because of concerns that it was covering a subject that we do not want in the chat, such as glorifying suicidal ideation?
<BusyWolf> I'd like to ask Levi and Zhange to contribute their opinions as well, since they seconded my initial objection, and I believe they might have additional insight
<Zhange> I'm just thinking
<Soulless> I understand the concern with an operator pausing a conversation purely because only they are uncomfortable may be an issue
<Levi> Well, basically, we weren't breaking any rules. Maybe if we were talking about suicide or contemplating it, then I'd understand, but we weren't.
<Zhange> turning someone away during a time when they're that distressed, when they're seeking help from others, is a bit… inconsiderate?
<Zhange> and I've seen countless other conversations that are more sensitive and uncomfortable than this, go on longer and not get stopped
<Soulless> However I also believe with the way the conversation is going, I for example was allowed to freely discuss my lack of desire for life, as paired with my mental illness, as were others, without any challenge that these were unhealthy or dangerous thoughts
<Levi> But maybe I'm biased here, I haven't been feeling the best lately.
<Soulless> It could be read as a manner towards promoting suicidal ideation
<SpecterOfXmasFuture> Zhange: And how was I "turning someone away"? I asked many people if they were feeling all right and if they wanted to talk to me.
<BusyWolf> Okay, can we stop trying to conflate nihlishm and existentialism with suicide
<BusyWolf> because
<BusyWolf> nobody was saying "just kill yourself" or anything
<Soulless> SpecterOfXmasFuture, hey please let me handle this
<Modern_Erasmus> Just fourthing this complaint
<Levi> I never read it that way. I know that doesn't mean that it can't, but there's a difference between feeling nihilistic and suicidal.
<Levi> As GW said.
<Soulless> BusyWolf, right, but there was plenty "well, death is kind of a relief you know"
<Levi> I know you can feel both, but one doesn't inherently lead to the other.
<BusyWolf> in fact, I saw a number of people specifically dismiss sucide as an answer
<Soulless> There is no large leap there
<Modern_Erasmus> Personal distaste for a topic of discussion is no excuse for setting a stop order
<Soulless> Modern_Erasmus, is the issue that the reason was a personal distaste?
<Levi> I never saw that Soulless . at least, from when I entered the conversation.
<Zhange> I joined a few minutes before the end, so I might not have a decent grasp on the situation
<Soulless> Modern_Erasmus, for example if it was that users messaged an op privately expressing this conversation strikes them as dangeorus or uncomfortable would that be significant?
<BusyWolf> Soulless: that's still someone shutting down a conversation due to personal distaste
<BusyWolf> it's just the distaste is shifted from ops to the users
<Soulless> BusyWolf, well yes, we as a culture are due to the tastes of the users
<Zhange> but I haven't seen anything that explicitly encourages suicide
<Soulless> BusyWolf, you all found it tasteful, and some people did not
<BusyWolf> so, one user's opinions should be able to stop a conversation that involved at least a dozen people
<BusyWolf> that seems fair
<Soulless> Zhange, it is not a large leap to discuss the relief of dying anf suicidal beliefs
<Zhange> it seems like the type of existential/depressed discussion that goes on in 19 on a regular basis
<Soulless> BusyWolf, and if it is not one user?
<BusyWolf> also, again
<BusyWolf> nobody is forced to participate in conversations in 19
<Modern_Erasmus> Soulless: that’s an incredibly large leap
<BusyWolf> if you don't like a current topic you can just tab out
<BusyWolf> whereas if you shut down a conversation, that conversation is over
<Levi> There's a difference between relief and wanting to die.
<BusyWolf> and regathering all of those people to continue it is kind of prohibitively difficult
<Soulless> Levi, what is the difference betweens stating death as a relief of one's own difficulties in life and desiring that relief
<Modern_Erasmus> Existentialism and suicidal ideation are tangentionally related at best
- teawrites is now known as subtletea
<Zhange> Soulless: honestly, I don't view what was said in the discussion as suicidal in the slightest
<Levi> For example, I find it kinda comforting that we're all gonna die someday. Not in a 'i wanna die way' but in an equality way. We're all gonna face oblivion, and that gives me comfort knowing that I'm not the only one facing this down.
<Soulless> Zhange, ok
<Soulless> Levi, yes, but that is not what was said
<Klurg> I have to admit, I found that conversation uncomfortable as well. I don’t think what anakin did was called for, but there were other people other than anakin who were uncomfortable, me beingine if them.
<Soulless> Levi, in several parts of the conversation death is explicitly found as relieving
<subtletea> Me as well.
<Klurg> Me being*
<Soulless> Levi, now, I in fact agree with you
<truffles> If enough people found the conversation uncomfortable - including operators - then it ought to be shut down
<Tufto> I think it kinda was called for, because it did look like certain people were getting very uncomfortable with it. and yeah, maybe it's just responding to distaste, but that's what pretty much all chat rules are to an extent.
<BusyWolf> how many is enough
<subtletea> I had mentioned it was offputting in a different channel and I was about two moments from asking for a topic change in 19 when it was opstopped.
<Soulless> BusyWolf, well, should it be a majority thing?
<Soulless> I am asking you because I want to know your opinion really
<BusyWolf> and, like
<BusyWolf> if somebody has an issue with a conversation, the correct course isn't to message an op secretly to get it shutdown forcibly
<BusyWolf> but to just say that
<BusyWolf> like
<BusyWolf> that's how converation works
<Soulless> BusyWolf, it is saying thatm, just to an operator
<BusyWolf> "hey, could we talk about something else"
<Soulless> BusyWolf, they have no power to actually change the convo, just politely ask people to do so
<BusyWolf> and if enough people agree, then the conversation changes of its own accord
<Soulless> who are free to ignore them
<Soulless> BusyWolf, well, is it a majority of people that should decide what is appropriate to talk about in 19?
- subtletea is now known as tearising
<Klurg> Not all conversations that need move on of their own accord actually do so.
<Klurg> Why do you think we have op s with stop orders?
<BusyWolf> Klurg: to stop conversations that break rules
<Soulless> Hey guys let's not make these comments
<Soulless> I appreciate your input expressiong your views in this
<Levi> also Soulless this line "what is the difference betweens stating death as a relief of one's own difficulties in life and desiring that relief" . There's a difference between the two. I would find relief in beating someone up who I found annoying, but that doesn't mean you desire it. I don't know if what I'm saying is making sense at all so please tell me if it isn't.
<Soulless> But I do not want people questioning others here
<Dexanote> It's a complaint guys.
<Klurg> Apologies. I’ll leave this to you. I’ve already put in my statement.
<Soulless> Klurg, I appreciate your statement
<Soulless> Please do not question others' statements
<truffles> Everybody who isn’t an op or making the complaint stop talking
<Levi> also i'm sorry if I made anyone uncomfortable during that conversation
<BusyWolf> frankly, I personally feel like you are grossly mishandling this complaint, and there's not much point to continuing this
<BusyWolf> I've said my piece
<Soulless> BusyWolf, I am confused what exactly your issue is: is it that the conversaiton was stopped at all, and if so what is the appropriate solution? Is it that the operator provided a not-good-enough reason?
<BusyWolf> 19:03:48 <BusyWolf> the specific issue is that a conversation that hadn't violated any rules and was being conducted in a civil and productive manner was preemptively ended by a staff member
<BusyWolf> 19:03:58 <BusyWolf> that is the core of the issue
<BusyWolf> 19:04:14 <BusyWolf> there is an /additional/ issue with anakin having a history of ending conversations in such a manner
<Soulless> BusyWolf, if you have an issue with how your complaint is being handled I can pass this onto the other chatmins so they can inform me regarding my behavior
<Soulless> BusyWolf, yes, and I am asking you: what is the solution?
<BusyWolf> there isn't a solution
<BusyWolf> the conversation is over now
<Soulless> I see
<BusyWolf> it's not going to restart
<BusyWolf> my expectation is that this would be logged and anakin's behavior as a chatop would be reviewed
<Soulless> Alright, I'll pass that on
<Soulless> Are there any other concerns?
<BusyWolf> not from me
<Levi> i don't, but maybe because this is the first time i've done something like this
<Soulless> Levi, it happens, conversations are stopped
<Soulless> Sometimes operators make errors as to which conversations must be stopped, and users can inform us why, and in what cirucmstances they desire a stoppage in the future
<Soulless> *inform us why they dislike it
<SpecterOfXmasFuture> Levi: I want to let you know that I appreciate your apology about making people uncomfortable. That was very nice of you.
<Dexanote> A stop order isn't a witch hunt. We can stop order any conversation we feel is going in a direction that negatively impacts the active state of Site19.
<Dexanote> Let's make that clear.
<Levi> eh, i don't see what's nice about it. it's just a normal thing you do.
<Dexanote> I don't even know what the hell the conversation was but apparently if multiple people are uncomfortable, its the kinda thing we decide to stop.
<Dexanote> So we did.
<Dexanote> I'm going back to homework.
<Tuomey> To expand on that: This includes conversations that aren't actually against the rules.
<Dexanote> Yeah, because we have flexible rules for a reason?
<Dexanote> Ops reserve the rights to end conversations? It's like one of their few powers outside of straight kickbanning.
Operators have conferred that there is nothing to do about this complaint at this time and believe the operator was right to stop the conversation. This complaint is being logged purely because staff do not wish to pick and choose validity of complaints.
Living the dream, or dreaming the life?