Here's the conversation on a coldpost, which starts here: http://www.scp-wiki.net/forum/t-2161143/scp-2742#post-2765633
h5 11 Mar 2017, 23:32
I like it but I Think it needs more work, it can be compressed, made smaller. A few different phrasins or terms here and there. The Picture is a bit big but I can see why, it's gorgeus. Half-makes the article.
This SCP will probably be voted to be deleted but I wish it could stay, delete and SCP due to a bad article sure but not because it isn't interesting. You don't really get to be a nitpick in real Life, why should we here. We are dealt cards and forced to use them…
Comment chain 1:
sirpudding 12 Mar 2017, 00:13
This SCP will probably be voted to be deleted but I wish it could stay, delete and SCP due to a bad article sure but not because it isn't interesting.
SCP articles just look like bureaucratic reports about some weird thing. What they really are are fiction that uses the format as an artificial constraint. You are right that real bureaucratic reports are generally not entertaining, but fiction is usually required to entertain.
MrWrong 12 Mar 2017, 00:23
Adding on, if an article fails to interest one, is that not an sign that the article is perceived to be "bad"? We can blame it on the reader's ignorance easily, but rejecting the critics and negative opinion will ultimately harm the article and its creator.
sirpudding 12 Mar 2017, 00:39
I think what they are saying is that if we set out to build an accurate simulation of the Foundation's database, it really should be mostly full of technically competent but extremely boring articles (most of them -EX articles about lab errors, hoaxes or coincidences).
This is missing the point, because we aren't making a realistic model of a fictional conspiracy, we are spinning yarns and merely disguising them as forms.
Comment chain 2:
Zachary Maxwell does not match any existing user name 12 Mar 2017, 00:18
I'm sorry to say this, but…we do nitpick in life. We do strive to make our's, and other peoples' lives, better. This site is a creative writing site where we absolutely are and should strive to make it better - 'it' meaning the site, its contents, even the writers here. We're not 4 year olds who deserve a sticker just for trying, and people aren't downvoting because they're 'nitpicking', or even because they're being cruel. They're doing it because they care about the site, and because they care about the work that's put here, and because they ultimately do care about what the author writes. It is honestly a good thing.
There's a great system in place here for getting feedback on your work before posting it, for getting help with the picture (it is far too big, 'gorgeous' or not), for getting advice on things like the battleships - there's people who are willing to give up their free time to help. So it's understandable that sometimes things get downvoted. It doesn't mean the author can't go on the forums, go on chat, get advice, and try again when they've made major improvements.
h5 12 Mar 2017, 00:44
Nitpicking is perhaps a bad Word, cherrypicking might work better. It's like the Sceptics Guide to the Universe, they nitpick/cherrypicks what htey want to belive. Similar here on this site. Some articles are fine in grammar, idea, etc. But are voted down because it isn't entertaining or otherwise. That is ashame, many things are boring but that doesn't mean they shouldn't exist.
Picture ''far too big''? By who's definition, there aren't any real paramaters set for a Picture. No real restraints. If a big Picture can be used to detail the SCP better then there should be no objections. However this case is not an exception, and all I said was that I understood why it was so big. I didn't attempt to justify it nor claim that it should remain that size. And if these people won't give their time then someone else will. It's more of a race at this Point, first on get's the publicity (though a futility in the end if the article is deleted).
And I hope the article is improved in a style that everyone can accept, if it get's voted down again while in no errors we'll see if the people are truly cherrypicking.
sirpudding 12 Mar 2017, 01:00
That is ashame, many things are boring but that doesn't mean they shouldn't exist.
You would be right if the purpose of this site was as a bureaucracy simulator. That isn't really what it is, just what it looks like. If it was like that we should have only few things that are remotely interesting and a thousand -EX articles that all amount to variations on contaminated equipment. "Boring" is absolutely no criteria for a bureaucracy to reject an accurate report, you are 100% correct about this; "boring" is a reason for a reader to reject a story for entertainment and we are actually doing the latter here.
By who's definition, there aren't any real paramaters set for a Picture. No real restraints.
Untrue, How to Write an SCP specifically says that images cannot be taller than 300px.
Accelerando 12 Mar 2017, 01:18
Untrue, How to Write an SCP specifically says that images cannot be taller than 300px.
There's nothing to stop you from changing the image size; what we DON'T want is images that are large storage-wise (3 mb pics are a no-no).
If you want to alter the format itself, justifying it is up to you.
From the guide:
Note that by default, the standard image block is set to 300px width. If you need it to be a different size (such as if the native size of the image is less than 300px), then you can optionally add a width attribute to the image block as shown here:
Still, considering the presence of 2900+ articles on the site, I think users (especially older ones) can afford to be a little picky when it comes to reading about another talking animal or portal to another world. Even when I do like an occasional article detailing a simpler anomaly, the bar has been raised in terms of what people want more of in an article.
Like, uh, Diminishing Marginal Utility. Or something.
Comment chain 3:
Zachary Maxwell does not match any existing user name 12 Mar 2017, 01:14
I assure you, nothing about this site is a 'race'. There's no rush to get your SCP out there, everyone just wants you (and themselves) to produce the best one possible. And yes, there is absolutely a limit to picture sizes - it's actually part of the essential reading if you want to produce a SCP article.
All anyone's trying to do is help this writer, because we want good stuff on the site, and everyone should be as good as they possibly can - we can't let things slide just because of 'nit' or 'cherry' picking. Hopefully, the author will take this in their stride, use the forums, and come back to this idea - if it's feasible - when it's at a better quality. No point rushing it, not in the slightest.
h5 12 Mar 2017, 01:21
That's not what I meant. People commenting and correcting people's works shouldn't be considered as them giving sacrifising time of their Life to do so (as you say). If they don't do it, someone else will. So it's more of a race to get to help someone first than a sacrifise for one to do. Does that make more sense? - Rhetorical question. And yes, we've already established that. I was in error.
I hope so, but in the end the core concept will be the same (probably). All that will be changed is the way it is told in the article. It will probably result in the same understanding of the SCP.
Zachary Maxwell does not match any existing user name 12 Mar 2017, 01:26
I didn't use the word 'sacrifice' - that's way too intense. We're all on this website in our free time, for our enjoyment, whether that's making articles, or commenting on them, or giving detailed feedback, and it does take time out of our day. So I think people who help others deserve to see articles that are well-written and presented on here, as do the people who actually manage to write to that level. It's an important thing.
And the 'core concept' may be the same - but it's the writing of the thing that's important. That's the point. People who are downvoting are rarely saying 'I hate the idea, it's never going to work'; they're saying 'this doesn't work currently'. So yes, the overall meaning of the article may stay the same - but if the author gets feedback, or even just considers what people have said here (though I would strongly advise getting feedback 'properly'), it will make a huge difference to people's impression of the article. Like I said, we can't let standards slip just because the 'core concept would be the same' no matter how it's written.
h5 12 Mar 2017, 01:35
Yes, but see… The thing is that you are here willingly and if you weren't here at all someone else would be. So we, simply put, don't need you (specifically the current top-reviewers) because others are willing to step up and take their Place. Therefore it is more of a race, racing to stay on the top, to expend the most time here. People shouldn't expect praise (or other) for sacri- expending time, plenty of others willing to do that. I'm not saying that articles shouldn't be shuffled out of the selection-pool just that some are Everything an article should be, or at least has the concept down, and are shuffled out. This SCP, for example, has some issues and is considered boring by some but it is an SCP by definition and not Everything is interesting, why should we have to make sure Everything is interesting. I Think the site could use some diversity but… Whatever I can say here…
Zachary Maxwell does not match any existing user name 12 Mar 2017, 03:06
This site is widely diverse, in every term of the word, in my opinion. It wasn't so much, once upon a time, but with nearly 3000 SCP articles, many tales, many long-form storylines, other groups of interest, tons of members who are diverse in themselves and write diverse things - well, it's not really a problem. Diversity doesn't mean accepting sub-par articles, however, and we all find different things interesting and not interesting. But most people here try to keep some objectivity when voting, and understand that whilst they may not be interested in an article, it can still be well written, researched, and interesting to someone else.
For example, the idea of space stuff confuses me because I'm too dumb to understand it. Therefore, space stuff doesn't interest me. So I generally don't give feedback on it beyond spelling and grammar, and I don't vote on them either, because I can't tell how accurate they are. But as you can see from what's on the site and what people continue to write about, space and similar things are very popular, regardless. Other people don't share my interests either, but I've still seen articles on here that I've enjoyed. So diverse? Most certainly.
Communism will win 12 Mar 2017, 06:48
why should we have to make sure Everything is interesting
Because this is a fucking entertainment website.
People commenting and correcting people's works shouldn't be considered as them giving sacrifising time of their Life to do so (as you say). If they don't do it, someone else will. So it's more of a race to get to help someone first than a sacrifise for one to do.
This is a terrible attitude to take towards people who offer their time and energy to help people for no tangible benefit. This community got as far as it did because people who put in the effort to be helpful were rewarded with recognition, social status, and enjoyable SCPs. There are problems resulting from this approach no doubt, but it's WHY you have people lining up to leave comments in the first place.
High-level critique, the work of the "top-reviewers" isn't even interchangeable. Everybody brings their own perspective and knowledge to the table. If you write a comment more than a few sentences long but decide not to post it, probably nobody is going to come in and say what you were gonna say.
h5 12 Mar 2017, 11:01
Not Reading that, communism, the issue has already been settled.
