The following discussion was had in #site17 today:
[15:59] ghostpage DolphinSlugchugger, petition to kick for transphobic jokes 2k17
[15:59] =-= Lily is now known as LilySleep
[15:59] DolphinSlugchugger i mean. i thought that was a policy already
[15:59] Cyantreuse I'm really exhausted of random transphobia not getting immediate kicks in 19. The apologies always seem fake, and only come once there's social repercussions shown by other chat members to the offender. There are people in there who literally openly say that people like me shouldn't be allowed to exist, and they don't get kicked. They just get warned. And
[15:59] Cyantreuse then they do it again.
[16:00] ghostpage ^
[16:00] Cyantreuse I see them get logged, yes - I sometimes post in their O5 threads. It is just my stance that a straight kick response across the board would better get the lesson through. "kicked: no transphobia." Done and done.
[16:01] =-= BusyVolt is now known as NineVolt
[16:02] Cyantreuse But instead, they get warned, and then logged, and a short process goes through. And they don't learn. Because the results weren't immediate, so it didn't stick in their heads.
[16:03] Decibelle policy when i was operator was to sort of make fun for the user and tell them why that joke sucked and tell them not to do it again or else theyd get kicked/banned for 24 hours
[16:03] Cyantreuse I believe that if recognizably transphobic statements were grounds for one quick kick, no exceptions, the ones who are genuinely assholes would leave (as they so often threaten) and the ones that actually mean no harm (transphobia is often societally ingrained rather than intentional) would learn.
[16:03] Decibelle said policy was because most people didnt know why those jokes were bad
[16:03] minmin I'm sorry I wasn't on the ball when that happened just now, I'm of the belief that chat piling on them was sufficient
[16:03] ghostpage A lot of kicks/warns/etc don't get logged either :V
[16:03] Decibelle just that they regurgitated them without knowing context of the joke
[16:03] DolphinSlugchugger didn't they. do it twice though
[16:03] Decibelle idk, im just explaining policy when i was around, idk if its still the case
[16:03] Cyantreuse I'm speaking generally because this is a disturbingly common issue in 19, minmin - not speaking about this instance only
[16:03] LilySleep They did, dsc >.>
[16:03] ghostpage minmin, people don't respect other users as much as operators, that's just a fact
[16:04] minmin that is fair
[16:04] Decibelle ghostpage: and sometimes not even then
[16:04] ghostpage A sad one, but indeed the reality of the situation - you guys are in power and it's not our job to moderate, since no one /really/ listens to each other.
[16:04] Cyantreuse users dogpiling is "what a liberal echochamber!" operators kicking is "fuck, I actually did something wrong."
[16:04] minmin Cyantreuse: understood
I'm copying the entire thing because I think it was well said.
The summary is: A request from a number of trans users to insta-kick people in #site19 who make transphobic jokes.
I think that this request is highly reasonable.
A kick is just a warning. It's a harsh warning, but it's always just a warning. Yes, we do sometimes avoid kicks up-front because they upset people, but… so do transphobic jokes. The users doing the upsetting are not more important than the users who are upset.
Additionally, I think Cyantreuse's explanation of the situation is completely accurate. The 'scoldings' don't really work with stuff like this. I also will disagree with the comment that a dogpile is sufficient (I actually don't care for the dogpiles, I just accept them as necessary). An instant across-the-board kick can work with stuff like this.
I think this ought to apply to things like racism, misogyny, etc. Those are already more likely to be kicked for, because those issues enjoy a higher level of cultural awareness. It's also true I'm very forgiving of people who say something that's shitty and transphobic out of ignorance and regret saying it once they're informed better.
But all that works just fine with kicking people up-front, to let them know we're serious and that it's time to listen up. They can come right back in after, and their behavior is up to them.
Ops, weigh in. Tell us what you think.