Guide for Newbies section "Tips on Writing" section

Summary:

"Your first may suck, and that's okay:"

Guide for Newbies section "Tips on Writing" section

Zyn 20 Sep 2016 20:08

As Scorpion451 noted: http://www.scp-wiki.net/forum/t-134464/guide-for-newbies#post-2644209

Your first may suck, and that's okay:

I think this subheading from the Tips for Writing tab could use a tweak, as per the "There is no first SCP curse" campaign/mantra/whatever you want to call it.

The rest of that section does a good job of explaining that a first SCP doesn't have to suck, but I can see people reading that boldfaced subheading as "expect your first SCP to suck, so post something half-baked just to get it out of the way, and people will be okay with that because you're new".

Thoughts on an alternate wording, and perhaps a link to the There is no First SCP Curse thread?

I'm thinking we can change pretty much all of what we have currently, which is:

Your first may suck, and that's okay: Statistically speaking, your first SCP has a higher chance of failing due to your lack of experience at writing articles for this site. However, this is not an excuse for not even trying, it's not a curse befalling all new members and it's not just a fact of life or a universal truth. That said, don't feel bad if something you wrote is deleted (as per the Deletions Guide, pages below a certain rating are routinely deleted by staff). Take the feedback and use it to make your next one even better. Don't dwell and complain how we removed it or people downvoted it for being blind to your genius. That sort of behavior is the most idiotic sort of thing anyone in this wiki knows about. You will be awarded no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Trim it down, tell people how to do it right as opposed to what the wrongest thing is, that sort of thing. Instead of "your first may suck, and that's okay", maybe something like "The first SCP is a challenge, so prepare yourself right"?

Re: Guide for Newbies section "Tips on Writing" section

Mistbourne 20 Sep 2016 20:29

Concur that it needs to be tightened and reworded to be positive ("prepare yourself correctly") rather than negative ("it may suck").

My suggestion:

Reword

There is no First SCP Curse: Preparing yourself properly for the challenge of writing an SCP and making use of the resources available to you can make even your first effort out of the gate succeed. When you have an idea, you can get feedback on whether it is likely to succeed from the Ideas and Brainstorming forum; once you have a draft, you should seek feedback from the Drafts and Critiques forum. The realtime chat, mentioned above, is also a good resource. All that being said, if something you wrote is deleted (as per the Deletions Guide, pages below a certain rating are routinely deleted by staff), don't give up. Take the feedback you get from that effort and either refine your idea or move on to a new one.

Original Version

Your first may suck, and that's okay: Statistically speaking, your first SCP has a higher chance of failing due to your lack of experience at writing articles for this site. However, this is not an excuse for not even trying, it's not a curse befalling all new members and it's not just a fact of life or a universal truth. That said, don't feel bad if something you wrote is deleted (as per the Deletions Guide, pages below a certain rating are routinely deleted by staff). Take the feedback and use it to make your next one even better. Don't dwell and complain how we removed it or people downvoted it for being blind to your genius. That sort of behavior is the most idiotic sort of thing anyone in this wiki knows about. You will be awarded no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Re: Guide for Newbies section "Tips on Writing" section

MrWrong 21 Sep 2016 02:13

In general, I support Misbourne's suggestion. The only point of disagreement is the use of "no First SCP Curse" in the heading, since it does connote a slightly negative perspective. The heading can be replaced with "Proper preparation", and we can link the "no First SCP Curse" towards the end (along with an explanation on the "myth of failed SCPs").¹

Sometimes, one's first-written SCP may not be well-received and some may attribute it to a so-called "First SCP Curse". While the former does happen, the latter is a myth. There are a multitude of SCPs that are the first written works of respective authors and still here on the site, as collated by the community under There Is No First SCP Curse.

Footnotes

1. Which is rather true for some authors, whose first SCP did not work out.

Last edited on 21 Sep 2016 02:15 by MrWrong Show more

Re: Guide for Newbies section "Tips on Writing" section

thedeadlymoose 25 Sep 2016 20:57

I'm still thinking this over.

I agree that the current wording is not exactly great.

I don't like rewording this to focus on "there is no first SCP curse" because that's decidedly not aimed at newbies who may be freaking out about making a good first impression, or upset if their first try fails and thinking it's some kind of permanent failure.

(The people not freaking out about that are simply not going to read that guide anyway.)

It feels like it's more aimed at veterans who don't like newbies using it as an excuse (apparently, at least) to not try harder.

I also can't support the suggested rewording because it's eye-glazing to read, just repeating stuff elsewhere in the guide. Taking every opportunity to exhort people to get feedback isn't going to ensure they get feedback, it's just going to make them less likely to carefully read a long and repetitive piece.

Linking to the No First SCP Curse thread is unnecessarily confusing, even though I like that thread.

Re: Guide for Newbies section "Tips on Writing" section

thedeadlymoose 26 Sep 2016 21:57

Scantron sent in a suggestion, which I think is pretty good:

* **Your first article:** If your first article isn't successful -- and many first articles aren't -- that's perfectly alright. It might get downvoted, other writers will pick apart its faults and say it's awful, and staff might delete it (as per the [[[Deletions Guide]]], pages below a certain rating are routinely deleted by staff)… and then the site will move on and forget about it. Even on the off chance that other members remember your article, they almost certainly won't remember //you//. Write the best article you can, and no matter what happens, take the feedback you get to make your next attempt even better -- nobody else is dwelling on your failure, and you shouldn't either. Don't make excuses for its shortcomings, either -- that will never help you improve.

He added, in summary, that both the current form and the suggestion seem aimed "to look intimidating enough that when new users ignore it, veterans don't have to feel bad about ripping into them", and that what we should be doing is writing the text to cater to the needs of newbies.

I have to admit I'm in agreement. Though I'm pleased with Mistbourne's efforts in writing a suggestion that's significantly better than the current version.

Thoughts? Do we want to take Scantron's suggestion with some tweaks, or do we think that another variation might work better?

Re: Guide for Newbies section "Tips on Writing" section

Mistbourne 27 Sep 2016 15:10

I think it needs a little tweaking, mostly in concept order, but is basically sound. I'd also like it to convey that first articles can and have succeeded.

How does this look?

**Your first article:** Write the best article you can as a draft, then get feedback and use it. First-time articles can and have succeeded in the past. On the other hand, if your article isn't successful -- and many first articles aren't -- that's fine! Downvotes, criticism from other users, and staff deletion (as per the [[[Deletions Guide]]], pages below a certain rating are routinely deleted by staff) are all part of the learning process. The great part about a failed article being deleted is that it's //gone//, and will usually be forgotten. Even if the article isn't forgotten, the members who remember it almost certainly won't remember that //you// wrote it. Learn from the failure, take the feedback, and come back stronger.

EDIT: Basically, I took Scantron's text and redid the concept order a bit to make it feel more positive - instead of saying right off the bat that many first articles fail, it starts by saying you should do your absolute best every time out of the gate.

EDIT²: Reading that again, it looks a little awkward - my wordsmithing abilities seem to be a little off today.

Last edited on 27 Sep 2016 15:22 by Mistbourne Show more

Re: Guide for Newbies section "Tips on Writing" section

thedeadlymoose 28 Sep 2016 00:54

I like the new first line.

However —

First-time articles can and have succeeded in the past.

This line is another one that feels exclusively there for frustrated veterans who want to quote this at newbies, not for the actual newbies. It's not necessary.

For the rest, I'd like to tweak it a little more too (some of Scantron's phrasing is still better, though I like some changes you made) but I'd like to hear other staff members weighing on this as well first.

Re: Guide for Newbies section "Tips on Writing" section

Mistbourne 28 Sep 2016 01:39

This line is another one that feels exclusively there for frustrated veterans who want to quote this at newbies, not for the actual newbies. It's not necessary.

That's the furthest thing from my intent. It was intended to encourage, since I've seen a lot of recent "It's my first article, so it probably sucks" sentiments.

Whether it's necessary or not, I leave to consensus opinion. Same for specific phrasing. I really do think the current guide is very negative, and I'd like to avoid leading with an implication that first articles are doomed.

Re: Guide for Newbies section "Tips on Writing" section

Zyn 04 Oct 2016 05:37

How are we progressing with this?

Also, any chance we can trim down so that whatever is eventually put in is shorter than what we currently have?

Last edited on 04 Oct 2016 05:37 by Zyn Show more

Re: Guide for Newbies section "Tips on Writing" section

Zyn 05 Oct 2016 02:02

How about:

Your first article: Write the best article you can as a draft, then get feedback in the forums and chat. Use that feedback to make the article even better before posting it up for voting. No matter how your mainsite post goes, make the most of the experience! Routine staff deletions (as per the Deletions Guide) are part of the learning process. The great part about a failed article being deleted is that it's gone and will usually be forgotten (the site sees tons of new articles every week). Learn from the mishaps, take the advice, and come back stronger.

Re: Guide for Newbies section "Tips on Writing" section

Mistbourne 05 Oct 2016 02:26

I'm good with this phrasing.

Re: Guide for Newbies section "Tips on Writing" section

Jacob Conwell 05 Oct 2016 17:06

I can get behind this wording. A+

Re: Guide for Newbies section "Tips on Writing" section

WrongJohnSilver 05 Oct 2016 19:26

I like this wording. Let's use it.

Re: Guide for Newbies section "Tips on Writing" section

Dexanote 06 Oct 2016 03:28

I'm a fan, I'd like to go with this wording.

Re: Guide for Newbies section "Tips on Writing" section

Decibelles 06 Oct 2016 04:24

Looks good to me.

Re: Guide for Newbies section "Tips on Writing" section

LurkD 05 Oct 2016 15:51

I really don't think a change is necessary, but I don't see the harm in making a change anyway if someone really wants it said differently. IMHO, there are other areas to put our efforts into.

Re: Guide for Newbies section "Tips on Writing" section

Zyn 06 Oct 2016 19:21

New wording has been implemented by me.