[DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

Summary:

Adding genre tags to SCPs

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[DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

ParallelPotatoes 16 Apr 2024 17:51

Ive seen support for this among many people but no discussions have happened, so Im starting the discussion. Thanks to Prismal and Psy for looking it over beforehand. I stole the policy format from critcord.

O4 Mirror: https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/forum/t-16776351/discussion-scp-genre-tags

The issue at hand: SCP readers currently have no way to search for SCPs by their genre outside of user curated lists.

Who does it affect? Readers, particularly those who enjoy some genres more than others.

Proposed Solution: Apply previously-established tale genre tags to SCPs and GOI formats.

Why the proposed solution is effective: By having genre tags, readers can use tag search to search for SCPs in genres they enjoy. Similarly, they can exclude genres they dislike.

Potential Issues
This might overload tag team. Its an additional 8000 articles that need to be tagged, plus any new articles will need more tags.

Last edited on 16 Apr 2024 18:21 by ParallelPotatoes Show more

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

DrLeviStarkin 16 Apr 2024 17:58

this would help a lot with identifying articles, but as someone currently combing through and replacing http: instances with https: instances in articles, I can tell you this will be very tedious and take a long time.

Overall, I think I'd support this, but only if tagging team has the time and manpower to do so.

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Levi Starkin

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

Zara Calico 16 Apr 2024 18:07

I personally, as someone who has written a lot of Tales, would be really happy to be able to tag them as something beyond 'Tale', and I've read series about things that have established tags within their storyline, and also carry a lot of lore on their shoulders! It would also expand what people get to experience when they search up a tag — rather than just seeing articles about xyz and thinking that's all there is, they could dip into Tales which could benefit both the reader and writer.

Tagging is going to be a huge problem, as far as time and manpower goes, (as I know the system I'd tag my own work, but that's a drop in the ocean) and I appreciate this is something that would need to be considered before moving forward. Unfortunately, I have no answer other than newer, higher-rated Tales should be tagged first (IMO) and that I'd be happy to pitch in, just need to brush up on my tag lingo.

Last edited on 16 Apr 2024 18:10 by Zara Calico Show more

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

Jerden 16 Apr 2024 18:15

To clarify, we are already tagging Tales with Genre Tags (see the tales hub here), we're discussing broadening this to SCPs as well.

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

Zara Calico 16 Apr 2024 23:21

Sorry, my brain had a dumb!

I still agree with the proposal, but also agree it would be an awful lot of work. I'm also happy to help once I catch up on genre tags again. However, it would still put a lot of pressure on the pre-existing team, and if they'd have to rely from either help from other staff or users tagging their own work (making it effectively 'invisible' to add more relevant tags to it.)

Would this include a LGBTQ+ (or similar) genre tag, if it doesn't already exist? I have a vague memory of a discussion on this but I don't remember where we landed. This is just an off-handed question, totally no problem if there's no answer.

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

ParallelPotatoes 16 Apr 2024 23:35

LGBTQ+ tag already exists! As a tale genre tag. This discussion is to also make it an SCP genre tag.

Last edited on 16 Apr 2024 23:36 by ParallelPotatoes Show more

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

syuzhet 16 Apr 2024 18:16

Fully supporting this.

I suggest that implementation be handled similarly to the tale genre tags — the tagging effort should be community-driven and the final decision should rest with the author of the article. Through this path, the tagging team will not be obliterated by the workload and will be permitted to stay on this earth…

Also, if I remember correctly, didn't the Collections Team (may they rest in peace) already compile a master list of SCP articles tagged with the appropriate genres? We should obtain this text if possible…

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

psychicprogrammer 16 Apr 2024 18:37

Not the biggest fan due to the workload required on tagging, as the team is already overloaded.

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

syuzhet 16 Apr 2024 18:49

This isn't really a concern if it's handled similarly to tale tags, is it? Genre tags already exist, so the only effort the tagging team has to exert is to say "Yes, you can apply these to SCPs, too."

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

psychicprogrammer 17 Apr 2024 12:09

Tech is in charge of creating tags, it is trivial on our end.

Tagging on the other hand are the people who need to actually write these things down.

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

SynthPanda_ 16 Apr 2024 19:05

Fully support.

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

Deadly Bread 16 Apr 2024 19:06

My largest concern with this is the amount of pressure this would put on the tagging team, especially now that we have knowledge of the effort it does take to categorize and retag an genre of page after tale tags were introduced (namely the requirement of an entirely new staff team for such an effort). This would be that on an even larger scale (~5700 tales versus ~8700 SCPs and ~550 GOI formats). There are other smaller problems I such as a number of articles already exceeding the tag limit, meaning establishing a choice between which tags are more vital to article navigation, and the inherent formatting of certain SCP articles not perfectly meshing with the existing genre tags as suggested (both of these are much more edge cases and I wouldn't consider major sticking points).

I would, however, like to support the more off-hand mention of adding genre tags to GOI formats. While they don't have the same inherent problems as tales prior to navigation due to their direct link to a GOI and its hub, they don't nearly have the same classification specific navigation as SCP attribute tags and I feel that someone using genre tags to find, say, a western or spy-fiction tale would benefit from having GOI formats that fit those categories recommended to them.

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

Prismal 16 Apr 2024 23:27

The overloading of tags is a good point, that's a Wikidot limitation I don't think we can really do anything about.

Though at the same time those are, to my understanding, in the very small minority, and in some cases already do have to decide which tags are more important to the work,you could also potentially make a similar argument for character tags for works that include a lot of characters, but similarly I don't think that should stop us from allowing those tags to be applied.

It's an unfortunate limitation, but I think it'd benefit far more people than it would cause them to reach the tag limit

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

ParallelPotatoes 16 Apr 2024 23:41

I’ve discussed potential solutions to the work overload in my post below and my response to Ethagon’s comment. However, I do believe that the tag overload is going to be such a rare case that it can likely be addressed on a case-by-case basis. As for the SCPs that don’t fit into neat little genre boxes, I think it’s best to let whoever is tagging them use their best judgement. Worst case scenario, there is the _genreless tag.

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

psychicprogrammer 17 Apr 2024 04:31

As a note the pages that are currently overloading the tag limits are two tales and one SCP.

We should make a triage system here.

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

ParallelPotatoes 16 Apr 2024 19:15

I’m well aware that the genre tags will put a huge amount of pressure on tag team. I think if this goes through, then a few reasonable solutions would be to
1) Allow users to help with tagging SCPs, similar to how tale tags are being implemented. More people read SCPs, which means more people that might be willing to help
2) Make genre tags a lower priority for tag team than existing tags. This could be only requiring them to genre tag new articles. It could also even be allowing genre tags to be applied after other tags (including top level) are applied.

I should also mention that I do not think tagging old articles needs to happen quickly, this could be a multi-year effort.

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

Ethagon 16 Apr 2024 20:48

I'm currently against this, though only procedurally.

I'd rather put more effort into finishing the tale tagging project (or at least get it to 50%) which I believe to be possible if initiative is put behind the project again (I am unsure if anyone is currently actively tale tagging old tales additionally to new tales still being published that are just tagged tale by the author).

I think eventually this is fine, with a lower priority given in the way that genre is "optional" for scps.

Goi-formats I think could probably be tagged in one sweep given that there's less than 500 of them and the task more easily divisible by groups. Though I think opening up GOI formats for genre tags should also come with a discussion wether some or all of them should also be allowed to get SCP attribute tags (this makes more sense for some GOI-formats that are very SCP-like then others which lean closer to tales in structure).

However similarly to SCPs, I'd also rather have first given focus to tales.

To me ideally we'd finish genre tags (or at least get a specific percentage tagged) before moving on to others in this order:

Tale > Goi-Format > SCP

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

ParallelPotatoes 16 Apr 2024 21:14

Would there be harm in allowing users to genre tag their own SCPs, but still direct staff efforts to tale tagging for the time being? I agree that tale tags should take staff priority for right now. However, if users were allowed to tag their own SCPs with genres, I believe many SCPs would still be tagged even without tagstaff actively working on it. Not all of them, of course, but likely enough that someone could consider using genre tag to find articles to read.

Last edited on 16 Apr 2024 21:17 by ParallelPotatoes Show more

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

syuzhet 16 Apr 2024 22:23

This would be a good approach if the tagging team finds this sort of thing too laborious. There's no need for a concerted effort by staff to tag every SCP with genre tags, but allowing it as an option for users seems only beneficial…

Also, genre tags are inherently more useful and search-worthy than most existing tags, so their existence should naturally compel SCP authors to self-tag their own articles.

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

Celeste Etoile 17 Apr 2024 03:08

I like this a lot. Also makes the backlog potentially less intimidating, if enough authors add their own tags to their articles.

I don’t know if having too many tags on one article is a concern, but if it is, authors could be limited to just one or two tags. Would still provide a great tool to search with, would be easier for the tagging team to make sure the tags are appropriate (if necessary).

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

psychicprogrammer 17 Apr 2024 12:10

Problem, all of series 1 and two are locked and require mod perms to tag.

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

ParallelPotatoes 17 Apr 2024 12:37

While I agree that this would be a problem, I also don’t see it as a major one. That is less than 1/4th of the SCPs at this point, and it’s already the most visible portion. If the remaining 3/4ths of SCPs get tagged but 1&2 don’t, that would still be a huge benefit to searchability compared to zero SCPs getting genre tagged. Due to its visibility I don’t think genre tags would help with finding articles the same way it would for later series. In short, I don’t think slow or nonexistent tagging of 1&2 is a con that would outweigh the benefits of SCP genre tags.

Re: [DISCUSSION] SCP Genre Tags

Celeste Etoile 16 Apr 2024 21:56

I fully support the idea of this. The wikidot search function sucks, I am always in support of more ways to organize and browse through things

Echoing many others, though, I will leave it to the tagging team to decide how plausible this is or if it should be a priority right now. I know how tedious it can be to go through so many pages (stares in CC 4.0 image crawl), and this has the additional complications of having to actually read and decide how to categorize *every* mainlist article. That's so much work. Would it be possible to start with tagging new articles with genre tags and not worrying about existing ones, for the moment? That might be a good way to figure out how to tag articles, at least, and keep the potential backlog from growing as a larger project to tackle older articles is planned.

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