[DISCUSSION] Staff Without a Team

Summary:

What the FUCK

[DISCUSSION] Staff Without a Team

Prime Girl 08 Jul 2023 16:19

Mainsite Mirror: https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/forum/t-16144215/discussion-staff-without-a-team

It has been brought to our attention that staff members on no team can exist. For example, leaving or being removed from every team you're on does not apparently constitute leaving staff. This seems an enormous oversight which should be immediately rectified.

The outcome of this policy we'd like to see are:

- Being removed from every staff team a staff member is on automatically retires them from staff.

-Retiring from all teams a staff member is on automatically retires them from staff.

-A staff member's only team being dissolved requires they join a new team to remain on staff, but they aren't just left high and dry, given a bit of leeway but not eternal leeway. Current proposal is 7 days. (My thought is also that this could easily be extended with fiat if truly needed so it needn't be an excessive length)

For discussion: (aside from voicing disagreement, though this honestly seems like a no-brainer to us) Is there anything else conceptually missing here? any other situations this should cover? any exceptions this needs to account for?

This discussion will continue for a week

Last edited on 08 Jul 2023 16:24 by Prime Girl Show more

Re: [DISCUSSION] Staff Without a Team

stormbreath 08 Jul 2023 16:39

I think that individuals being left without a team because of their team dissolving is both fundamentally different from the other questions asked here and significantly more complicated/potentially unique. For starters, teams dissolving is a rare occurrence: I'm only aware of two instances, Wikiwalk and Site Crit, and their circumstances are not very similar to each other. Wikiwalk, in essence, had a planned end date and it’s dissolution was foreseen well in advance. Site Crit was a merger into a combined Crit Team. Both of these teams had exit plans, which were worked out at the time.

I don’t think we should detail any policy, other than a simple mandate that this get handled before a team dissolves. In the case of Wikiwalk, it would have been more than easy (and even easier today) to simply mandate that Wikiwalk doesn’t disband before the team members had new homes (and this would not have delayed the end of the team). For Site Crit, there was another, specific team to take on the members: they’re assumed to join Crit unless they opt out, in which case it is effectively one of the first two scenarios.

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EDIT: My thoughts on the first two circumstances:

• If you leave all teams of your own volition and voluntarily resign from all of them, you should be removed from staff immediately, without a grace period. As this is your own decision, you have the ability to get this squared away before you resign from your last team, and if you are wishing to remain a staff member, you can work this out.
• If you are forcibly removed from your last team, there must be a grace period. Only two instances of a staff member being forcibly removed from staff come to mind, and both were vindictive and petty revenge maneuvers from the Captains in power. In one instance the Captain was removed from staff over the incident, and in the second they probably should have been (but I am not sure they would be, even today^1,2.). However, I am opposed to encoding policy that can be used to support abusive behavior, so a grace period to protect these staff members is necessary.

Footnotes

1. Ask me directly for specifics. I am not trying to publicly shame the former Captains in question.

2. I have been informed that in the second of these instances the staffer was on another team at the time; however, the action was still an abuse of power by the removing Captain.

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can I get some nice "no signatures on my forum"
sigma-9 css machine broke
understandable have a nice day

Last edited on 09 Jul 2023 21:44 by stormbreath Show more

Re: [DISCUSSION] Staff Without a Team

aismallard 09 Jul 2023 05:20

I agree with stormbreath. The cases of "staff member has resigned / was removed from teams" and "team is dissolving" are very different situations. We've had issues in the past with people officially staff who were not present in staff spaces or not on any teams, that is rather different than someone who is active but is one a team which is going to be folding for whatever reason.

So regarding the second case, I agree that we should not be covering that with this proposed policy, and instead simply add a mandate that, as part of team dissolution, all staff members have are accounted for. To avoid this becoming a bottleneck and delaying team dissolution unnecessarily, administration should get involved to ensure staff members have a place to go.

Provided that this policy does not include the kind of no-fault team dissolution scenarios discussed, I'm fine with policy that auto-resigns from staff on resignation (or removal) from your last team on staff.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Staff Without a Team

Ethagon 09 Jul 2023 13:44

I agree with this approach.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Staff Without a Team

torcsandantlers 09 Jul 2023 16:41

I agree with storm's take here entirely.

We do currently have a culture in which retired members of staff can return easily and with little resistance, but there's no guarantee that this will continue to be the case. Building in a grace period for those removed from teams makes sense.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Staff Without a Team

LORDXVNV 09 Jul 2023 20:24

I agree with stormbreath pretty much entirely on the generalities specifics of how this should be handled. Resignation from the last team should be resignation from staff by default, forcible removal should give a grace period since I suspect being forcibly kicked out of staff by your captain not liking you for whatever reason counts as not leaving staff on good standing.

Team dissolution is a problem for the teams and if we have to use a fallback for post-team-dissolution applying the same grace period is reasonable but I'd prefer everyone impacted make their arrangements first.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Staff Without a Team

DrBleep 09 Jul 2023 20:54

Agreeing with Storm's post.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Staff Without a Team

FlyPurgatorio 08 Jul 2023 16:44

I'm new here and I have opinions.

• Agreed on auto-retirement if a staff member is no longer a member of a team.

• I can see a grace period of 7 days in the case of a team dissolving. During this grace period I would suggest in the policy to remove certain staff access (such as mod tools) until a new role can be assigned. This is probably an extreme rarity, but I rather have an edge case like that included in the policy, instead of discussing it when the time comes.

• I’m also not against immediately removal from staff upon dissolving your only team, being either fired or retiring from any or all your teams. Staff is not a rank, it’s a volunteer job, and I see no problem with not having it for a bit while looking for a new place to fit. Don't we have a 'retired staff' rank for people retired in good standing anyway?

• Grace period. There is 1 think I’d consider including in case that grace period is added: who to go to in case of complaints, since there is no captain to go to. Again, might just be a formality, but why not add that kind of clarity in the policy.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Staff Without a Team

ParallelPotatoes 09 Jul 2023 04:51

Overall I think if a staff member doesn’t have a team then they should be removed from staff, and this feels like a no brainer to me. My main issue with this is that the 7 day grace period only applies to team dissolution. I agree with the reasoning that its so staff on dissolved teams aren’t left high and dry. However, I can see situations where staff being removed from teams will also leave them high and dry. If someone is removed in good standing I think a 7 day grace period should apply to them as well to avoid situations where someone is left high and dry.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Staff Without a Team

psychicprogrammer 09 Jul 2023 12:21

One easy way to deal with a team dissolving is to auto assign any member without a team to tagging. Solves the grace period problem and the weird exceptions problem.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Staff Without a Team

LORDXVNV 09 Jul 2023 20:20

It's a clean solution, but what if they don't want to do tagging work and then just don't leave?

Re: [DISCUSSION] Staff Without a Team

SketchyTh0ughts 09 Jul 2023 20:27

People should join a team if they genuinely want to; we don't want to shove people onto a sub team as if it's some kind of demotion (I know this isn't what you meant but it comes off that way).

Re: [DISCUSSION] Staff Without a Team

stormbreath 09 Jul 2023 21:51

More so than other teams, Tagging requires specialized knowledge to do it correctly, which staffers from other teams will likely not have. I myself have never learned how to tag an SCP article, despite being Tech Captain. I doubt that a default team/position is an appropriate protocol here.

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can I get some nice "no signatures on my forum"
sigma-9 css machine broke
understandable have a nice day