[DISCUSSION] Author wills

Summary:

Will we or won't we

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[DISCUSSION] Author wills

psychicprogrammer 07 Jul 2023 08:38

04 mirror: https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/forum/t-16137947/discussion-author-wills

Quite a few authors have what they call living wills on the site defining what should be done with their articles if they go missing.

Most of these articles state that either ownership or control of their articles should go to some other member of the wiki. However this has never been defined and their very much is not a
standard definition for this.

There is a question of how much staff should interfere here, but since this is very entwined with authors rights I do think this should be spelled out

As staff we should discuss what exactly does this mean and what is actually being transferred here. On a broad scale of minimal control to maximal control

• Contact person for staff related queries about articles
• Ability to make minor content edits (think wikiwalk for the limitations here)
• Ability to make major content edits
• Ability to totally rewrite an article
• Ability to delete an article

Do note that this is a scale, not an all or nothing thing.

There is the secondary question of we do make a decision here should it be retroactive to previous living wills or require a new one under new guidelines. Likely via a form in a forum thread

This discussion will go on for one week

Last edited on 07 Jul 2023 08:48 by psychicprogrammer Show more

Re: [DISCUSSION] Author wills

JackalRelated 07 Jul 2023 08:44

Personally I think "control" should stem to:

• Contact person for staff related queries about articles
• Ability to make minor content edits (think wikiwalk for the limitations here)
• Ability to make major content edits

and anything beyond that (i.e. rewriting, deletion) should be stated explicitly in the "author will" otherwise.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Author wills

SketchyTh0ughts 07 Jul 2023 08:53

Agreeing with Jackal above.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Author wills

psychicprogrammer 07 Jul 2023 09:09

My thoughts as well

Re: [DISCUSSION] Author wills

Riemann 07 Jul 2023 09:10

At risk of doing some devil's advocate stuff here… Where do we draw the line between major content edits and rewriting?

Re: [DISCUSSION] Author wills

Ethagon 09 Jul 2023 13:39

This is my issue with this approach as well. The only line I can think of that could clearly keep a major content edit from a rewrite is wether or not the article was reposted for the rewrite.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Author wills

Dexanote 08 Jul 2023 06:52

I feel like this is the best angle to take with this. It's a general umbrella that's fairly intuitive.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Author wills

frystavirki 08 Jul 2023 07:50

Yes, this is about where I fall as well. If an author wants the person named in their will to be able to delete or rewrite their articles as well, they should state that specifically.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Author wills

Riemann 07 Jul 2023 08:49

I'm of the mind that transferring control confers authorial rights here.

To that end, we can't* stop an author from deleting their works in a normal situation. If control of an author's works are transferred, I would see the new owner as having all of the rights of the author. In the same way that we should not be interfering with an author deleting or rewriting their own works, it feels too far for us to be interfering with what the inheritor wishes to do.

It's not up to us to police trustworthyness of an inheritor. If the author trusts them enough to cede control, who are we to intercede on that control?

*_{except that one time}

Last edited on 07 Jul 2023 08:50 by Riemann Show more

Re: [DISCUSSION] Author wills

JackalRelated 07 Jul 2023 08:56

My only disagreement from a technical standpoint would stem/be if we do this — would we have to change the attribution on the article to match? It wouldn't be very easy to "track" who owns what article (as they have full rights over the page now) unless we checked up on author pages every time something occurred. Another concern is if we *do* give full attribution, if it drops the former author down under the author page requirement, would we still have to delete the author page?

A solution to your proposal could/would be giving the new author co-owner rights, and it should be relatively easy from there for the "surviving" author to point us to the author page, perhaps.

---

There's issues I think with "control" conferring an ultimate non-revokable right over a page that really isn't theirs — especially stuff like rewrites or deletion. I think these limits would also help prevent issues where the author comes back and requests (or demands) said control of their articles again. It would be reasonable if we limited it to the first three options, as the author still retains that 'final say' — unless they explicitly gave that right away, something we can point to and go "Hey, look, you explicitly gave [x] permission."

Last edited on 07 Jul 2023 09:03 by JackalRelated Show more

Re: [DISCUSSION] Author wills

Riemann 07 Jul 2023 09:09

I don't think that we would necessarily have to change the attribution on the article to match - Something as big as deleting would necessarily require a mod (since the new owner did not create the page they have no deleting power per wikidot). In cases of rewriting, that would certainly be flagged in recent changes, though I am also happy to require a heads-up from the new owner in either case just to reduce administrative burden. A message from the new owner declaring the intent and again showing proof that they have inherited the articles when doing the rewrite would be enough, I think, to avoid any confusion?

--

Yes, we definitely have the unique problem where normal wills don't involve people potentially coming back from the dead, unlike here. If the author comes back and demands or requests control of their articles, shouldn't it be straightforwards to just return it to them? With the caveat that whatever happened in their absence has happened, under the control of the person that they appointed to be in charge of their articles in the interim.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Author wills

HarryBlank 07 Jul 2023 08:55

I agree with Jackal. If an author wishes to specify that someone can do whatever they want with an article, they do so explicitly. If their language is vague, the curator gets to edit and answer staff questions related to necessary page work. They most certainly don't get to delete things without the author's say unless they author specifically says they're allowing that.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Author wills

Jerden 07 Jul 2023 09:29

I read control as extending up to minor content edits, I can imagine it allowing the addition of Wikiwalk style links to tie it into later works but definitely not a full rewrite.

I think we're going to have to say this applies retroactively because we're interpreting phrasing, which is one reason I'd err on the side of caution here.

Last edited on 09 Jul 2023 05:41 by Jerden Show more

Re: [DISCUSSION] Author wills

AriadnesThread 07 Jul 2023 14:47

I agree with Jackal and Jerden on this, as unless the author page explicitly says rewrites are included, it's better to err on the side of caution. We're essentially allowing a loophole in the rewrite policy otherwise, and that strikes me as against the spirit of both.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Author wills

cdithink 07 Jul 2023 12:01

Agreeing with Jackal. The Wiki’s also an archive of sorts so doing anything like massively rewrite or delete a piece should require explicitly stated permission from the author.

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— CD

Re: [DISCUSSION] Author wills

EstrellaYoshte 07 Jul 2023 13:12

Like most of the wiki's interactions, I'd interpret a generally-worded author's will as a gesture of good faith, where the article's lifetime is managed by the named trustees - If, for example, I entrust LORDXVNV with my articles after my departure and found out that they were deleted or replaced with peanut jokes, I'd think it a dick move.

At the same time, being a named trustee should principally give them significantly more editorial power than something like Wikiwalk edits, which was both a power we gave ourselves and a generic opt-in form with no specificity.

All things considered, unless the will goes more in-depth with allowances (e.g. "can do whatever they want with my articles" pretty explicitly includes all authorial rights), ability to make major content edits is the hard upper bound.

Last edited on 07 Jul 2023 13:14 by EstrellaYoshte Show more

Re: [DISCUSSION] Author wills

Kufat 07 Jul 2023 14:56

I would interpret 'control' as referring to all power that original author had over their articles within the wiki, including deletion and rewriting or allowing others to rewrite. Like an unlimited power of attorney, basically.

(That said, I think abuse of that power or using it in bad faith would be a rule 0 violation.)

Re: [DISCUSSION] Author wills

divinephobia 07 Jul 2023 16:18

I think that up to major content edits would be reasonable without explicit statement in the author will of otherwise. If the author says "I trust x person with maintenance of my articles, but I don't want any major changes," then it would be up to wikiwalk-style edits, SPaG, etc. Same applies for bigger things like rewrites and deletion - explicit permission. I would however agree with Kufat that using it in bad faith, even with the author will, would be a rule 0 problem.
Basically - agreeing with Jackal.

I do think it might be a little bit difficult to keep track of permissions when getting into more specific author wills, but as far as I'm aware it doesn't seem to happen all that often.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Author wills

Uncle Nicolini 07 Jul 2023 22:17

i had written something very long but my phone browser crashed (thanks a lot chrome) and i now only have the cliffnotes version of what i had originally wanted to say.

i think that trustees for author wills should be permitted to do the following:

• manage minor edits (wikiwalk, etc)
• serve as the point of contact for questions re: the article

i dont think that trustees should be permitted to do the following:

• perform large-scale changes to the article (ie: changing themes, narrative, or SCP designation)
• deletion of the page, unless it was cowritten with the trustor

Re: [DISCUSSION] Author wills

torcsandantlers 11 Jul 2023 14:18

Nico has summed up my position pretty well here.

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