Go chatstaff, ended up missing something important in the LucidDreamer logs.
<MacLeod> LucidDreamer: and i don't care about you besides when i'll get to put you against the wall. fuck around and find out, motherfucker.
OP consensus is one year.
OP consensus was specifically 2 ops, 2 hops, and a chat admin.
To explain our reasoning, this occured in this shitstorm which was a long running, fast moving nightmare, hence why we originally missed it. "Put[ting someone] against the wall" is intended to invoke firing squad imagery, making this a death threat. One that's hard to take seriously, sure, but it was pretty obviously sincerely meant. We as chat operators cannot and will not abide that kind of behavior, no matter what an infuriating twit the other party was being.
Quick note from Macleod on #site17
| 14:26 | MacMobile Just swinging by to say 1) no ragrets, 2) I use more than one hostmask |
| 14:27 | MacMobile Not saying I intend to ban evade, just letting y'all know in case I join irc with this hostmask and y'all say I was trying to ban evade |
| 14:32 | Dora MacMobile noted. Would you be ok if I make a note of this on O5? |
| 14:33 | MacMobile Sure |
Nickname: macmobile
Username: ur.fin
Hostname: lly.awake
Identified: yes
Real name: MacLeod
Server: lightning.on.ca.synirc.net
Appeal was made:
MacLeod> All right. So, in short, I don't rescind the sentiment I expressed towards the other individual. However, how I expressed my feelings was immature and ultimately feeding a troll.
<MacLeod> If I'm allowed back into 19, I'll make a careful, deliberate point not to react to trolls or even. well. vile people in general so vehemently.
<MacLeod> I don't know what else I'm supposed to or simply should say; tl;dr: i won't be a hothead in the future.
<MacLeod> If my ban is not appealed, I understand and I'll review O5 on what I'm supposed to do next.
<MacLeod> (or any other pertinent pages explaining site irc policy)
<Soulless> Ok, have you completed your appeal?
<MacLeod> As I said, I don't know what else I'm supposed to say/should say/do.
<MacLeod> I've been pretty steeply mired in bureaucracy so i'm used to more formal proceedings than this; i've said what i can on my own behalf, regardless.
<MacLeod> (irl bureaucracy, is what i meant, if that clarification is necessary
Living the dream, or dreaming the life?
There is absolutely no reason to accept this appeal.
I do not care what vile manner of troll you are talking to (and I feel we must remember the user involved was only revealed to be a troll afterwards, for all Macleod or any of us knew at the time this person was speaking with the utmost sincerity), you don't make death threats in 19, even sad ones.
You especially don't join a few days after the ban to crow about how not sorry you are, and you double especially don't bring up your lack of remorse as literally the first relevant section of a very short appeal.
This user, despite feeble claims to the contrary, shows every sign of believing they acted properly and do not regret what they did. They're free to be fine with what they did, but we're free to make sure they live with the consequences too.
Deny
I've never seen a successful appeal that begins with "I'm not sorry." Deny.
~🌸~Flower Power~🌸~
By a vote of either 2-0 or 3-0 (Roget I can't remember if you're chatstaff ;n;) and agreement from several full ops and one chat admin (besides myself) that enough time has passed, chatstaff is officially denying this appeal.
this happened:
[05:25:20] <MacMobile> That's the thing about star wars: it's mad inconsistent
[05:25:30] <Panteradactyl> Much like 40k.
[05:25:51] <Panteradactyl> And the arguments of "who would win" between the two are also wildly inconsistent in their outcomes.
[05:26:00] <MacMobile> 40k ranges from satire of fascism to just… Being fascist
[05:26:12] * Joins: Naveil (sdneirf.ym.morf.pleh.elttil.a.htiw|487324diu#sdneirf.ym.morf.pleh.elttil.a.htiw|487324diu)
[05:26:39] <MacMobile> And satire of pessimistic views of the future… To just bring pessimistic about the future
[05:26:45] <Panteradactyl> MacMobile, I mean, that's just the humans. You also have the anarcho-capitalist paradise/wasteland of Comorragh.
[05:26:50] <Panteradactyl> Or however you spell it.
[05:27:28] <MacMobile> "anarcho-capitalist" is an oxymoron
[05:27:41] <fairydoctor> ^best joke
[05:27:44] <fairydoctor> i mean
[05:27:47] <fairydoctor> anarcho-cap is a joke
[05:27:50] <fairydoctor> its the joke
[05:28:08] <Panteradactyl> No, it just means capitalism without any governmental oversight that's not itself a capitalist entity.
[05:28:29] <MacMobile> Do you reject unjust hierarchy or not? If you do, you're anticapitalist. If you don't, you're not an anarchist
[05:28:33] <Sonderance> Ah, ancaps. Always a pleasure.
[05:28:42] <fairydoctor> MacMobile: nailed it
[05:28:49] <fairydoctor> Sonderance: they are fun to dunk
[05:28:52] <MacMobile> Anarchy isn't about disassembly of the government
[05:29:06] <Sonderance> fairydoctor: If that fruit was hanging any lower, it’d be a potato.
[05:29:16] <MacMobile> Anarchy is about reorganizing society to be horizonal rather than vertical
[05:29:23] <fairydoctor> …wait….arent they tho? <- sonderance
[05:29:30] <Panteradactyl> Mac, I'm saying what it is in execution, not belief.
[05:29:50] <MacMobile> Ok sure but my point still stands
[05:29:56] <MacMobile> On this note
[05:29:58] <Sonderance> fairydoctor: I do not believe that most ancaps are potatoes, but I could certainly be wrong.
[05:30:10] <fairydoctor> 🤔
[05:30:36] <MacMobile> Does anyone else see fucking bezos and fucking musk talk about Mars and just think of Rapture from Bioshock?
[05:30:48] <fairydoctor> :o
[05:30:51] <fairydoctor> NO but now i am!
[05:31:13] <fairydoctor> they psyche gonna get kicked when they in space
[05:31:16] <Sonderance> You mean the place whose founder was violently beaten to death?
[05:31:43] * Quits: weizhong (gnohziew.repmes.cis|iew#gnohziew.repmes.cis|iew) (zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)
[05:32:11] <MacMobile> Sonderance: I mean the place founded on lies that fell apart almost immediately
[05:32:37] <Sonderance> MacMobile: Hmmm. I’ll need to keep thinking about it to see the comparison.
[05:32:42] <Sonderance> Hmmmmmm
[05:32:52] <MacMobile> (as opposed to everywhere else, where the lies are taking goddamn forever to fall apart)
[05:33:13] * fairydoctor in very Francis voice
[05:33:14] <fairydoctor> I hate Ayn Rand
[05:34:42] <Sonderance> There exist people on earth who love both Ayn Rand and Bioshock. Unironically.
[05:35:05] <MacMobile> fairydoctor: a 12-year-old boy might find one of two authors: Tolkien or Rand. One of them will instill a child with dangerous, ridiculous, and childish fantasies. The other wrote about hobbits.
[05:35:05] * fairydoctor brain implodes like a blackhole
[05:35:23] <fairydoctor> OMFG MacMobile lololol
[05:35:36] * Joins: Jaykillbam2 (moc.murtceps.ser.p94h9j-PCS|egnuoleht#moc.murtceps.ser.p94h9j-PCS|egnuoleht)
[05:36:00] <Jaykillbam2> home!
[05:36:02] <sketchythoughts> hello
[05:36:04] <Jaykillbam2> hey yall
[05:36:15] <CaptainWacky> hi
[05:36:17] <Jaykillbam2> .s only time
[05:36:19] <Secretary_Helen> Jaykillbam2: SCP-6000 - Only Time Will Tell (Rating: +23. Written 3 days ago By: JayKillbam) - http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/6000contestjaykillbam
[05:36:22] <Jaykillbam2> how's everyone?
[05:36:30] <fairydoctor> hey jay!
[05:36:35] <sketchythoughts> good thanks. hbu?
[05:36:37] <fairydoctor> have you seen my promotional poster?
[05:36:41] <Jaykillbam2> hey fairydoctor
[05:36:44] <Jaykillbam2> no!
[05:36:49] <Jaykillbam2> send
[05:37:00] <fairydoctor> lemme just spam chat again uwu
[05:37:02] <fairydoctor> https://docs.mania.systems/s/3f6YoPMn8sArggM
[05:37:29] <MacMobile> But yeah
[05:37:46] <Jaykillbam2> hahahahaha omg I love it
[05:37:49] <MacMobile> Any musk or bezos Mars colony is gonna end up like morherfuckin Rapture
[05:38:03] <JustUsWill> The last time I was active we were voting on 3k
[05:38:13] <fairydoctor> capitalism doesnt work in space. they all gonna have a bad time lol
[05:38:22] <MacMobile> Musk thinks he's Picard but he's the goddamn Borg
[05:38:24] <fairydoctor> Jaykillbam2: thank you!
[05:38:32] <Jaykillbam2> yeee
[05:38:37] <JustUsWill> Capitalism is the only system that works anywhere besides monarchy
[05:38:44] <Dora> "Capitalism 4: Capitalism in Space"
[05:38:46] <MacMobile> JustUsWill: lmfao
[05:38:49] <fairydoctor> ^
[05:38:49] <MacMobile> No
[05:38:53] <fairydoctor>
[05:38:54] <MacMobile> Capitalism doesn't work
[05:38:58] <Dora> "Capitalism 5: Capitalism in Time"
[05:39:07] <Dora> "Capitalism 6: Origin"
[05:39:15] <fairydoctor> Dora i love you
[05:39:17] <Dora> "Capitalism 7: Evolution"
[05:39:19] <Dora> :D
[05:39:20] <fairydoctor> <3
[05:39:37] <JustUsWill> communism is the most deadly disease of all time
[05:39:42] <Jaykillbam2> Capitalism 2:Electric Bugaloo
[05:39:57] <MacMobile> Lol that's a funny way of spelling capitalism buddy
[05:40:05] <Dora> fairydoctor we thought we were done with the series with "Capitalism 3: The Final Chapter", but turns out that's not the case :D
[05:40:09] <JustUsWill> I know what I said and I said what I meant
[05:40:31] <Jaykillbam2> Capitalism 10: The Moneying
[05:40:36] <JustUsWill> 100 million dead and counting
[05:40:40] <MacMobile> 900 BiLlIoN tRiLlIoN dEaThS
[05:40:42] <fairydoctor> Dora ill just be glad when the franchise dies out. then maybe ill more time to write lol
[05:40:51] <JustUsWill> inb4 "but that wasn't real communism"
[05:40:58] <DrGolden> Calibri_Bold you here?
[05:41:22] <MacMobile> JustUsWill: do you eat boot leather because of a weird medical condition or do you just like the taste?
[05:41:23] <Calibri_Bold> DrGolden: Ye
[05:41:35] <DrGolden> I found a small error in your 6k
[05:41:38] <DrGolden> "An 001 proposal?"
[05:41:44] <DrGolden> Should be "A 001 proposal"
[05:41:56] <JustUsWill> MacMobile Are you incapable of caring for yourself because of a strange medical condition or are you just lazy?
[05:42:10] <Calibri_Bold> DrGolden: I pronounce it “oh-oh-one”
[05:42:24] <DrGolden> Ah, okay
[05:42:51] <fairydoctor> JustUsWill: i have a headache now thanks
[05:42:51] <MacMobile> JustUsWill: I'm too busy taking care of the worthless fat cats you're simping for like a sychophant.
[05:42:57] <fairydoctor> ^
[05:43:07] <JustUsWill> Socialized medicine is about as far as I'll go with socialism/communism
[05:43:11] <JustUsWill> anything beyond that is theft
[05:43:22] <MacMobile> …no buddy, profit is theft.
[05:43:33] <JustUsWill> "profit is theft"
[05:43:37] <MacMobile> Human civilization is built on us taking care of each other.
[05:43:58] <JustUsWill> Wow, way to sum up that I don't want to talk to you anymore in one sentence. Very efficient, wish more people were that upfront about their disabilities
[05:44:15] <DrGolden> Well anyway
[05:44:18] <DrGolden> That was a great read
[05:44:21] <Calibri_Bold> Is no one gonna talk about how this guy’s other take is “monarchy is a valid governmental structure”
[05:44:32] <fairydoctor> ^^
[05:44:34] <JustUsWill> Human civilization is built on conflict, competition, and murder and anyone saying anything different has never opened a history book
[05:44:34] <DrGolden> Calibri_Bold WHOMST?
[05:44:41] <MacMobile> Oh now you're saying I'm disabled because I'm calling you out for your trash beliefs? Ableist trash. Gtfo
[05:44:50] * Joins: HollFellswap (PI.28.81.ua5.jh1-PCS|egnuoleht#PI.28.81.ua5.jh1-PCS|egnuoleht)
[05:44:52] <MacMobile> JustUsWill: lol ok simp
[05:45:02] * HollFellswap is now known as holl
[05:45:07] <holl> hello
[05:45:13] * fairydoctor looks at all the creativity and scientific discoveries in human history
[05:45:14] <JustUsWill> Simp is the wrong insult, lol
[05:45:16] <fairydoctor> hello holl!
[05:45:18] <Calibri_Bold> DrGolden: Thank you! I’m glad you enjoyed it! (And I’m especially glad you enjoyed it despite the 2b2t reference)
[05:45:23] <Calibri_Bold> :P
[05:45:23] <Dora> okay, stop order
[05:45:33] <DrGolden> "no"
[05:45:35] <Dora> actually, hmm
[05:45:54] <Jaykillbam2> I step away to make one drink and 19 devolves! lol
[05:46:01] <fairydoctor> sup jay
[05:46:04] <JustUsWill> Opinions are fun.
[05:46:05] <fairydoctor> have you read my 6k yet?
[05:46:14] <DrGolden> Oh, I gotta plug mine
[05:46:17] <DrGolden> .s Mrs C
[05:46:19] <Secretary_Helen> DrGolden: SCP-6000 - Mrs C. Gren (Rating: +19. Written 4 days ago By: Dr Golden) - http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/6000contestdrgolden
[05:46:21] <Jaykillbam2> already read and dooted
[05:46:25] <fairydoctor> .s chno-lago
[05:46:28] <Secretary_Helen> fairydoctor: SCP-6000 - Arachno-lagophobia (Rating: +32. Written 3 days ago By: fairydoctor) - http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/6000contestfairydoctor
[05:46:29] <fairydoctor> oh??
[05:46:31] <fairydoctor> i had no idea
[05:46:33] <fairydoctor> /s
[05:46:37] <holl> build your infrastructure like a visionary, not a shoplifter.
[05:46:40] <Jaykillbam2> congrats on the post 30
[05:46:53] <Jaykillbam2> .s only time
[05:46:54] <Secretary_Helen> Jaykillbam2: SCP-6000 - Only Time Will Tell (Rating: +23. Written 3 days ago By: JayKillbam) - http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/6000contestjaykillbam
[05:47:04] <Calibri_Bold> holl: I like to build it like a truck because I like trucks
[05:47:10] <Jaykillbam2> I still need some more reads and actually I might edit a bit :)
[05:47:12] <holl> epic
[05:47:22] <Dora> JustUsWill full disclosure, I'm debating whether to stay out of this conversation so that I could moderate it in my capacity as a chat operator, or if I can pull out my "I'm a History postgrad" card
[05:47:24] <holl> quick question
[05:47:30] <holl> why do airports only have perfume shops
[05:47:38] <holl> fr tho why
[05:47:42] <Calibri_Bold> holl: They also sell flights
[05:47:52] <holl> perfume shops and flights
[05:47:54] <Jaykillbam2> Dora!
[05:47:59] * Jaykillbam2 pets dora
[05:48:07] <fairydoctor> Jaykillbam2: OH YEA!! RIGHT? it broke +30 im soooo excited
[05:48:10] <holl> they have more perfume isles than planes lmao
[05:48:14] <CaptainWacky> no one wants to fly stinky
[05:48:35] <holl> shower
[05:48:35] <Calibri_Bold> Everyone goes to airports for perfume
[05:48:38] <holl> bath
[05:48:55] <CaptainWacky> i would rather buy perfume than shower in an airport
[05:48:57] <JustUsWill> I doubt it will make much difference, seems like we'd just be yelling at each other, I am set in my beliefs and gave up on trying to shine a flashlight on the truth for people who believe in communism years ago Dora
[05:49:11] <MacMobile> Lol
[05:49:24] <MacMobile> "Everyone who disagrees with me is communist"
[05:49:32] <MacMobile> Lolololololol
[05:49:35] <Calibri_Bold> Dora: Honestly it would be interesting to hear your take considering how well-educated and knowledgeable you are on the subject
[05:49:38] <JustUsWill> I believe what babushka said about how it actually was to live in a communist country
[05:49:43] <Jaykillbam2> communism is not socialism….
[05:49:59] <Jaykillbam2> and vice versa
[05:50:01] <JustUsWill> Correct jay
[05:50:10] <holl> oaoaoaoaoaoa
[05:50:41] <Dora> okay, can we pause the conversation for 5 seconds?
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[05:50:52] * Dora operator hat on
[05:50:56] <JustUsWill> Socialism is a means by which resources are pooled for the benefit of the citizens, and communism is a means by which resources are pooled for the benefit of the country, usually to the detriment of the citizens
[05:51:00] * Joins: Sirslash47 (moc.duolccri.nevahenots.8ph5be-PCS|860554diu#moc.duolccri.nevahenots.8ph5be-PCS|860554diu)
[05:51:22] <JustUsWill> Sure, I was just already typing that lol
[05:51:36] <Jaykillbam2> but then again, im more anarchist than anything so, states shouldn't exist and borders are dumb, and communities should support each other, mutual aid is important and fight ALLL the powers
[05:51:39] <Calibri_Bold> holl: That is the sound I make when I’m reading an SCP and there is a scene set in the oldest anarchy server in Minecraft
[05:51:40] <holl> lol
[05:51:43] <JustUsWill> anarchist… cringe
[05:51:49] <Sirslash47> test
[05:51:54] <Xeno_Baby> .lc
[05:51:57] <Secretary_Helen> Xeno_Baby: SCP 6000 - Plager-isn't (Written 3 hours ago By: supremeyeet) - http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/6000contestsupremeyeet
[05:52:00] <Secretary_Helen> Xeno_Baby: SCP-5373 (Written 5 hours ago By: DrMateescu) - http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-5373-the-wax-museum
[05:52:01] <holl> 2b2t go brr tho
[05:52:03] <Secretary_Helen> Xeno_Baby: SCP-6000: Unless (Written 5 hours ago By: Kensing) - http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/6000contestkensing
[05:52:06] <Dora> let's all be clear here - are we having a discussion in good faith, or is this gonna just devolve into a game of ad hominems?
[05:52:08] <Sirslash47> fuck yes it works in combo with mobile
[05:52:22] <holl> Plagerisn't. the best name ever
[05:52:45] <Xeno_Baby> Dora I'd hope not, but I just joined
[05:53:02] <Jaykillbam2> im too tired after a 13 hour day at work to have any real coherent discussion on geopolitical philosophies and such…
[05:53:10] <Calibri_Bold> Dora: I shave literally never been mean or wrong ever
[05:53:16] <Calibri_Bold> *have
[05:53:19] <fairydoctor> Dora i think itll go downhill, like T B H
[05:53:21] <MacMobile> Dora: JustUsWill was already being an ableist jerk so pretty sure we know they don't argue in good faith
[05:53:57] * Quits: ocuin (gon.an.rit|131324diu#gon.an.rit|131324diu) (Connection closed for inactivity)
[05:54:16] <Jaykillbam2> fairydoctor im to tired to debate lol
[05:54:20] <Jaykillbam2> *too
[05:54:24] <JustUsWill> ableist, bootlicker, simp; these are the names MacMobile has called me already lol
[05:55:04] <MacMobile> JustUsWill: you derisively referred to me as disabled. That's the definition of ableist.
[05:55:06] <Xeno_Baby> what if we just completely forgo economics and go back to trading massive stone wheels that sit at the bottom of the ocean that we will never see or touch
[05:55:09] <Jaykillbam2> hey at least 19 aint dead at 3 in the morning like it almost always
[05:55:14] <Jish> What the fuck am I reading?
[05:55:17] <Dora> MacMobile talking about politics is not in an of itself an offense for 19; acting in bad faith is
[05:55:19] <JustUsWill> Xeno_Baby You mean bitcoin?
[05:55:25] <Xeno_Baby> nah, rai stones
[05:55:33] <Jaykillbam2> Jish hi! welcome to 19 I guess XD
[05:55:36] <Dora> that is what I'm trying to establish here
[05:55:54] <Jish> Thanks Jay great to be here :D
[05:56:10] <Xeno_Baby> mad respect for people who can trade highly valuable resources that they never see and it works
[05:56:17] <Jaykillbam2> I mean this is the liviliest its been all week at this time!
[05:56:39] <MacMobile> Dora: again, JustUsWill already proved they're acting in bad faith.
[05:56:44] <JustUsWill> Stating an absolutism like "profit is theft" and expecting it to be accepted as true is optimistic at best and out of touch with reality at worst
[05:56:45] <fairydoctor> ^
[05:56:48] <fairydoctor> oh uh
[05:57:05] <fairydoctor> im not really feelin this guy
[05:57:08] <fairydoctor> ill be back later
[05:57:11] * Parts: fairydoctor (PI.891.442.lab.q8i-PCS|otcodyriaf#PI.891.442.lab.q8i-PCS|otcodyriaf) ()
[05:57:18] <JustUsWill> Aw.
[05:57:21] <JustUsWill> I liked them.
[05:57:29] <Dora> JustUsWill point of fact: everyone in this conversation has been trading in absolutisms
[05:57:59] <Sirslash47> only sith deal in absolutes
[05:58:01] <Jish> "Capitalism: God's way of determining who is smart, and who is poor."
[05:58:03] <Jaykillbam2> But dora I never deal in Absolutes! hahahaha
[05:58:30] <Jaykillbam2> *finger guns*
[05:58:33] <Dora> and from an academic standpoint, I do strongly disagree with "Human civilization is built on conflict, competition, and murder and anyone saying anything different has never opened a history book"
[05:58:34] <JustUsWill> I've always liked that phrase, Jish, but I would modify it to "who is smart, who is lucky, and who is poor"
[05:58:53] <Sirslash47> oh god should have read the room before cracking that joke
[05:58:58] <Sirslash47> my apologies
[05:59:09] <Jish> What are you?
[05:59:12] <Jaykillbam2> all good slash
[05:59:19] * Joins: Mortos (PI.15.491.dkk.mj2-PCS|kcipecI#PI.15.491.dkk.mj2-PCS|kcipecI)
[05:59:20] <Jish> Some kind of wishy washy jedi?
[05:59:23] <JustUsWill> What am I? Handsome, mostly.
[05:59:52] <Calibri_Bold> JustUsWill: You look like a light-blue letter J from where I'm standing
[05:59:56] <MacMobile> JustUsWill: imagine a laborer works for their boss. They produce $400 in products an hour. They are paid $4 an hour. Tell me, how is that not theft?
[06:00:07] * Joins: Ralliston (moc.duolccri.etaghgih.aahlta-PCS|300374diu#moc.duolccri.etaghgih.aahlta-PCS|300374diu)
[06:00:35] <Calibri_Bold> Ralliston: Yooo
[06:00:40] <Ralliston> o/
[06:00:44] <Jaykillbam2> MacMobile although im on your side of this, I wouldn't use the word "theft" its more an "exploitation"
[06:00:49] <JustUsWill> MacMobile Does the laborer own all the tools he used? The building it was produced in? The materials? Did he negotiate the deal to sell the products for 400 an hour? Did he design the product? Did he quality test it?
[06:00:52] <Jish> Thieves' Guild when?
[06:00:54] <Jaykillbam2> Ralliston!!!!!
[06:00:55] <Dora> but right now I'm acting in my capacity as an operator, where the question is limited to "to what extent has this round of ad hominems and generalising statements thrown out with no backing evidence crosses over into becoming a disciplinary matter, as opposed to something where I just need to tell people to calm down a bit"
[06:01:34] <MacMobile> JustUsWill: if the only value you provide is "owning stuff," you provide no value whatsoever.
[06:01:53] <JustUsWill> Did the laborer design the product?
[06:01:57] <Jish> But what is "ownership" really?
[06:02:45] * Joins: ambymobile (moc.duolccri.edisnit.3qk70k-PCS|523994diu#moc.duolccri.edisnit.3qk70k-PCS|523994diu)
[06:02:58] <MacMobile> Sure, those other laborers also contributed and therefore deserve a cut of the revenue. But the boss, the factory "owner?" A parasite.
[06:03:48] <ambymobile> i leave you guys alone for an hour
[06:03:50] <Jish> Soft-headed, unconcerned children of privilege
[06:03:52] <JustUsWill> Let's take a real-life example. I did work at a plastics factory for a couple years. I ran the entire night shift, supervising 30 machines doing extruder and molding work. I had specialist knowledge. But the machines, were I to try to purchase them myself, cost over 20 million dollars total. SOMEONE has to put that capital up for there to BE the
[06:03:54] <JustUsWill> job I had, at 28 dollars an hour no less lol
[06:04:14] <MacMobile> A system of exploitation when it comes to means of production
[06:04:27] <ambymobile> and you start arguing about capitalism
[06:04:32] <JustUsWill> And for putting up the 20 mill for the machines and 2 mill for the building, shouldn't the factory owner expect a return on investment?
[06:04:33] <Jish> Seize that shit
[06:04:58] <HarryBlank> Money is neither virtue nor effort
[06:05:05] <Jaykillbam2> ^^
[06:05:07] <Jaykillbam2> yes
[06:05:08] <Calibri_Bold> ^
[06:05:11] <HarryBlank> Nor accrues to either
[06:05:22] <MacMobile> JustUsWill: your community could've put up the money. A private owner is only there to exploit m
[06:05:29] <Jaykillbam2> maybe the machine in the factory shouldn't cost 20 million to begin…
[06:05:48] <JustUsWill> "why isn't everything cheap or free" lol
[06:05:59] * Quits: ambymobile (moc.duolccri.edisnit.3qk70k-PCS|523994diu#moc.duolccri.edisnit.3qk70k-PCS|523994diu) ()
[06:06:03] <Jaykillbam2> who got THAT 20 million? another few factories
[06:06:03] <Jish> "Cheap as Free"
[06:06:07] <MacMobile> JustUsWill: because of artificial scarcity
[06:06:12] <Jaykillbam2> ^
[06:06:31] <JustUsWill> https://i.redd.it/8qakcgxn339z.jpg
[06:06:42] <Calibri_Bold> Dudes
[06:06:44] <Dora> JustUsWill okay, that's crossing over into an ad hominem - once again, I'll have to repeat this point
[06:06:46] <Calibri_Bold> We all just got destroyed
[06:06:49] <MacMobile> Who built those machines, JustUsWill? It wasn't the boss or the investors
[06:06:55] <Dora> I am willing to tolerate good-faith discussions of politics in 19
[06:07:06] <Dora> I will not tolerate one built on ad hominems
[06:07:14] <JustUsWill> The machines were built in a factory. By laborers who have a job because those machines are necessary.
[06:07:34] <MacMobile> Yep. Those laborers are necessary, too.
[06:07:37] <JustUsWill> The machines to build the machines were built by laborers who have a job because those machines are necessary
[06:08:00] <MacMobile> At any point did an investor build anything?
[06:08:06] <JustUsWill> the only real jobs in the world are farming and medicine, everything else is just a part of the cycle of industrialization
[06:08:28] * Joins: Mars (moc.duolccri.etaghgih.ej89bs-PCS|919714diu#moc.duolccri.etaghgih.ej89bs-PCS|919714diu)
[06:08:33] <Jish> "Why can't I just feed the money directly into the machinery?"
[06:08:39] <JustUsWill> The investors provided the opportunity for the things to be built in the first place. Much as we'd all love it, nobody is going to work for free
[06:08:46] <MacMobile> No they didn't
[06:08:58] <MacMobile> The opportunity already existed
[06:09:00] <Calibri_Bold> JustUsWill: You worked in a plastic factory, I work in a pharmacy. My job is more real than yours lmao
[06:09:07] <MacMobile> They just took advantage of it for their personal gain
[06:09:13] <Calibri_Bold> Plus, "pharmacy" has the word "farm" in it
[06:09:15] <Calibri_Bold> So that's double real
[06:09:24] <Calibri_Bold> Medicine /and/ farming
[06:09:27] <CaptainWacky> QED
[06:09:29] <JustUsWill> "worked" in a plastic factory. Past tense. My current job is in emergency medicine
[06:09:30] <Xeno_Baby> guys please calm down
[06:09:46] <Xeno_Baby> like, this isn't overly aggressive atm, but it's already escalating
[06:09:54] <Jish> That's just the kind of talk I'd expect from Big Pharma :P
[06:10:11] <JustUsWill> Don't even get me started on pharmaceuticals
[06:10:14] <Calibri_Bold> Xeno_Baby: I'm very calm, I'm just asserting how I have a double legitimate job over this guy's dumb fake single legitimate job
[06:10:19] <CaptainWacky> last time i was in here we were talking about bananas. that was nice
[06:10:28] <JustUsWill> you want to talk exploitation, look at pharmatech lol
[06:10:34] <MacMobile> It's 4:00 in the morning, I'm tired, I shouldn't even be up rn, I'm out
[06:10:38] * Dora sets mode: +m
[06:11:01] <Dora> okay, so that we're all absolutely clear here, let me repeat myself
[06:11:25] <Dora> I am willing to tolerate a good-faith discussion, I will not tolerate a bad-faith one
[06:12:05] <Dora> next person to chuck out an ad hominem or some other generalising statement without appropriate qualifiers and evidence to back it up is gonna get kicked, or worse
[06:12:12] * Dora sets mode: -m
