Scantron

Summary:

Told a user to go kill themselves in a publicly-opened channel

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Scantron

(account deleted) 25 Nov 2014 04:11

Earlier tonight, my own channel, #xiaobits, was opened as a diversion channel, to channel inevitable chat about the situation in Ferguson.
Many users from different avenues were invited.

Then, out of this blue, this happened:

<Scantron> Anyways, Echo, fuck you and your authoritarian white supremacist bullshit, kill yourself and save some freedom-lover the trouble. I'm out.

Followed by the reactions from other users (some of them regular chat users):

<Echo> Depends greatly on the kind of the round.
<Kommi> O.o
<Echo> I'm sorry?

• Scantron (knad.eht.fo.emoh.eht.dna.deew.eht.fo.dn|l#knad.eht.fo.emoh.eht.dna.deew.eht.fo.dn|l) has left (Leaving)

<Kommi> The heck?
<Kommi> …What just happened?

Officially logging this, as this channel, at the time of incident, was acting as an extension of #site19 for the purpose of political chat.
Also of note is that this is a site moderator telling a user this. This behavior would have not been acceptable from a normal user, let alone a member of staff.

Re: Scantron

Communism will win 25 Nov 2014 04:15

OPs have three options here: Stop people from being white supremacists in 19 and extensions thereof, stop me from being in 19 and extensions thereof, or allow me to talk that way to the aforementioned white supremacists. I find all of these options acceptable. I do not regret my behavior or consider it immoral.

---

if your reading this your gay

Re: Scantron

ProcyonLotor 25 Nov 2014 04:24

Just to get a clear picture, could we have logs with as much context as exists?

Re: Scantron

(account deleted) 25 Nov 2014 04:28

All logs as initiated from opening of discussion:

+ Ferguson

Nov 24 21:55:14 * AndarielHalo (lleh.attuo|hs#lleh.attuo|hs) has joined
Nov 24 21:55:20 * Scantron (knad.eht.fo.emoh.eht.dna.deew.eht.fo.dn|l#knad.eht.fo.emoh.eht.dna.deew.eht.fo.dn|l) has joined
Nov 24 21:55:20 * ChanServ sets mode +q on #xiaobits Sax
Nov 24 21:55:46 * AndarielHalo (lleh.attuo|hs#lleh.attuo|hs) has left
Nov 24 21:56:08 <Scantron> So yeah.
Nov 24 21:56:13 <Sax> About Ferguson.
Nov 24 21:56:40 <Scantron> I hope Darren Wilson gets shot.
Nov 24 21:56:46 <Sax> :/
Nov 24 21:57:02 <Sax> Yes, what he did was unnecessary and unjustified,
Nov 24 21:57:04 <Sax> But really?
Nov 24 21:57:19 <Scantron> What? It's clearly not safe for him to be out on the streets, and he's not going to jail.
Nov 24 21:57:24 * A_Random_Day (ten.nozirev.soif.amntsb.78F9E452-CRInys|tibbiM#ten.nozirev.soif.amntsb.78F9E452-CRInys|tibbiM) has joined
Nov 24 21:57:30 * A_Random_Day (ten.nozirev.soif.amntsb.78F9E452-CRInys|tibbiM#ten.nozirev.soif.amntsb.78F9E452-CRInys|tibbiM) has left
Nov 24 21:57:38 * Arag (~moc.rr.ser.xtas.974FF421-CRInys|araG#moc.rr.ser.xtas.974FF421-CRInys|araG) has joined
Nov 24 21:57:40 <Sax> So, instead, you advocate murder.
Nov 24 21:57:52 <Arag> Letting everyone know I'm here and AFK for a bit more.
Nov 24 21:57:53 * Echo (siht.rofdeks|reveni#siht.rofdeks|reveni) has joined
Nov 24 21:57:53 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Echo
Nov 24 21:57:59 <Scantron> Hell yes.
Nov 24 21:58:08 <Sax> Just for those two reasons?
Nov 24 21:58:15 <Echo> ?
Nov 24 21:58:22 <Sax> That he's not safe (obviously) on the streets, and that he was not indicted?
Nov 24 21:58:47 <Scantron> And the fact that he demonstrated his non-worth as a person.
Nov 24 21:58:47 * AndarielHalo (lleh.attuo|hs#lleh.attuo|hs) has joined
Nov 24 21:58:53 * You've invited Cristobal to #xiaobits (leilani.md.us.synirc.net)
Nov 24 21:58:53 * Sax invited Cristobal into the channel.
Nov 24 21:58:57 * MonkeyBomb (gnihton.w|s.uoy#gnihton.w|s.uoy) has joined
Nov 24 21:58:58 * Cristobal (PI.7F5A1065.873AD9F8.E1A51CAE|tibbiM#PI.7F5A1065.873AD9F8.E1A51CAE|tibbiM) has joined
Nov 24 21:59:05 <Cristobal> :3
Nov 24 21:59:06 * [Cristobal] (PI.7F5A1065.873AD9F8.E1A51CAE|tibbiM#PI.7F5A1065.873AD9F8.E1A51CAE|tibbiM): http://www.mibbit.com
Nov 24 21:59:06 * [Cristobal] #xiaobits #site17 #site19
Nov 24 21:59:06 * [Cristobal] toronto.on.ca.synirc.net :Home of Crack Mayor Rob Ford
Nov 24 21:59:06 * [Cristobal] idle 00:00:00, signon: Mon Nov 24 21:25:02
Nov 24 21:59:06 * [Cristobal] End of WHOIS list.
Nov 24 21:59:10 <Sax> Ah, that's why.
Nov 24 21:59:13 <Scantron> I have no sympathy, and thus offer a practical method.
Nov 24 21:59:13 <Sax> Your nick isn't registered.
Nov 24 21:59:15 * Tox (artsuhtaraz.hc|rps.osla#artsuhtaraz.hc|rps.osla) has joined
Nov 24 21:59:15 * ChanServ sets mode +a on #xiaobits Tox
Nov 24 21:59:15 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Tox
Nov 24 22:00:09 <Cristobal> Yeah, I have to download MIRC and register it and do all the irc things again, soon.
Nov 24 22:00:51 <Sax> No worries.
Nov 24 22:00:56 <Sax> Anyways, the topic is Ferguson
Nov 24 22:01:43 * Tox arrives on station
Nov 24 22:02:07 * MonkeyBomb takes shelther in his bunker.
Nov 24 22:02:39 <Echo> Scantron: The cop? re: his "non-worth as a person"?
Nov 24 22:03:31 <Cristobal> I don't hate the cop honestly, I have weird views on personal culpability and such. I think this kind of shit is expected from the system that is in place. People should focus on the system and not on the one guy.
Nov 24 22:03:53 <AndarielHalo> the real problem is, as was described months ago by a former soldier
Nov 24 22:03:54 * Arag is now known as Gara
Nov 24 22:04:02 <AndarielHalo> cops aren't properly trained to deal with these types of confrontations
Nov 24 22:04:19 <Scantron> I agree that the system should be our focus, but this individual is still despicable
Nov 24 22:04:22 <Echo> Absolutely.
Nov 24 22:04:28 <Echo> Cop training is shit-tier.
Nov 24 22:04:38 <Cristobal> I'd have him hanged as example, but I don't really think he is that despicable
Nov 24 22:04:47 <Echo> Well
Nov 24 22:05:07 <Scantron> I'm sure once I calm down I'll talk more about destroying the police as an institution, but right now I want this particular cop dead
Nov 24 22:05:12 <Gara> He should serve a murder sentence. Or, fuck, he should have a /trial/
Nov 24 22:05:17 <Echo> While I appreciate the complete and total rush to judgement and assumption of guilt, demonstrative of a fantastic understanding of the American legal system and the underpinning of presumption of innocence…
Nov 24 22:05:32 <Echo> I think you may be a little misguided there, Cristobal.
Nov 24 22:06:01 <Echo> The joke is that that's not how our system works, or should work.
Nov 24 22:06:12 <Cristobal> I mean, you work for an organization that feels entitled to use violence against people on a daily basis, you use violence on a daily basis on its behalf, you are probably uneducated and a bit brute, you are given a gun and raised in a culture that is dysfunctional, watching movies that glorifiy all this bullshit. You are made to sing and trance.
Nov 24 22:06:17 <Gara> How do we prove guilt, Echo?
Nov 24 22:06:20 * AndarielHalo (lleh.attuo|hs#lleh.attuo|hs) has left
Nov 24 22:06:27 <Echo> Cristobal: Not really.
Nov 24 22:06:28 <Gara> What system do we use to prove the guilt?
Nov 24 22:06:29 -ChanServ- Channel Kommi doesn't exist.
Nov 24 22:06:37 <Echo> That's not exactly indicative of most cops either.
Nov 24 22:06:37 -ChanServ- Channel Kommi doesn't exist.
Nov 24 22:06:53 * You've invited Kommi to #xiaobits (leilani.md.us.synirc.net)
Nov 24 22:06:53 * Sax invited Kommi into the channel.
Nov 24 22:07:03 <Cristobal> I know only the situation here in Chile honestly, not sure how it works elsewhere.
Nov 24 22:07:05 * Kommi (~ten.tsacmoc.im.1dsh.727D9FE8-CRInys|immoK#ten.tsacmoc.im.1dsh.727D9FE8-CRInys|immoK) has joined
Nov 24 22:07:11 <Echo> Less than 1% of cops are ever involved in an active shooting over the entire length of their caree- ah
Nov 24 22:07:14 * Kommi flailwaves
Nov 24 22:07:19 <Gara> Hello
Nov 24 22:07:22 * Sax has changed the topic to: The Saxophone Workshop | Suggestions for any botbuilding tools welcome | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDyAouw3nUw | Sometimes, you must not turn the other cheek | Topic is Ferguson
Nov 24 22:07:28 <Echo> Yeah… as bad as it is here, it's probably even worse there
Nov 24 22:07:52 <Echo> Gara: We have a trial.
Nov 24 22:07:59 <Cristobal> It's worse if you are poor and better if you have some money. And they don't bust your home with an anti terror squad for growing weed so far.
Nov 24 22:08:01 <Kommi> Hear about cop homicides being higher in Utah than any other aside from spousal homicide? =/
Nov 24 22:08:14 <Echo> Gara: Again, as stated elsewhere, I don't support the grand jury decision.
Nov 24 22:08:33 <Echo> But I do condemn the ludicrous rush to judgement and demands of "hanging" the guy before he's had a trial.
Nov 24 22:08:48 <Gara> Oh, I agree.
Nov 24 22:08:52 <Kommi> Yeah.. I don't think the trial should have taken place yet, protective custody and let things tone down.
Nov 24 22:08:56 <Echo> And I will say this.
Nov 24 22:08:58 <Tox> I just think it should have gone to trial, instead of just disappearing
Nov 24 22:09:14 <MonkeyBomb> That.. would probably have been prudent.
Nov 24 22:09:19 <Cristobal> I would hang him knowing fully that it is unfair and unethical, merely as game theory. An eye for an eye. It's solid strategy, would make the police start policing themselves. I don't think its possible though :(
Nov 24 22:09:21 <Echo> Well, once it's prescient, I will.
Nov 24 22:09:37 <Gara> I would like to interject http://www.ustream.tv/channel/bassemmasri/theater this livestream right here, if anyone is interested.
Nov 24 22:09:41 <Echo> Cristobal: I don't think that's what game theory means.
Nov 24 22:09:47 <Tox> Cristobal: An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
Nov 24 22:09:47 <Cristobal> I have no sympathy at all for cops or other vectors of violence, it being "their job" is no justification.
Nov 24 22:09:51 <Echo> And yeah…
Nov 24 22:09:54 <Kommi> I refuse to do that on simple ethical grounds, Cristobal, no reason to be as bad as that person =/
Nov 24 22:10:01 <Kommi> Plus, an eye for an eye and soon everyone is blind..
Nov 24 22:10:03 <Gara> Murder is not justified.
Nov 24 22:10:19 <Gara> Protests, justified, even vandalism.
Nov 24 22:10:24 <Echo> Cristobal: if you were to murder someone whose guilt hasn't been established.
Nov 24 22:10:36 <Echo> It's more than a little recklessly, criminally, brutally ignorant, and subject to the same error the cop supposedly committed
Nov 24 22:10:45 <Echo> Fantastic problem-solving there.
Nov 24 22:10:52 <Kommi> I'm wholly against the death penalty myself..
Nov 24 22:10:58 <Cristobal> Echo, it is game theory though. Well, not the theory itself but solid strategy derived based on it. I know it's not ethical at all but it would work, and at some point people just has enough. Think Mexico.
Nov 24 22:11:11 <Echo> It's really not a solid strategy either.
Nov 24 22:11:16 <Kommi> Mexico is on the brink of madness, Cristobal
Nov 24 22:11:29 <Echo> Enforcing brutality in response to brutality doesn't do anything except exacerbate a situation.
Nov 24 22:11:32 <Scantron> We've seen lots of evidence and heard lots of testimony. The fact that it didn't occur in a courtroom for us doesn't diminish that
Nov 24 22:11:33 <Tox> Cristobal: Hardly solid strategy
Nov 24 22:12:07 <Gara> Scantron, a lot of it contradictory.
Nov 24 22:12:11 <Echo> Scantron: Well… grand juries operate on different rules, and don't operate for the same purpose
Nov 24 22:12:24 <Echo> That, and they're not even designed for such an in-depth process as a trial
Nov 24 22:12:37 <Echo> They don't even operate on the same burden of prood.
Nov 24 22:12:39 <Echo> *f
Nov 24 22:13:15 <Scantron> I don't give a fuck, honestly. But, my order just came, so I'm out for now.
Nov 24 22:13:18 <Cristobal> What I say has been done in Chile a few times, people killing cops at random in retaliation for brutality.
Nov 24 22:13:27 <Gara> That's not a good method.
Nov 24 22:13:34 <Echo> Again, fantastic understanding of the legal system, Scantron.
Nov 24 22:13:36 <Gara> You hit, they hit, you hit, they hit harder.
Nov 24 22:13:47 <Cristobal> It usually results in cops being paranoid for a while and having a lot more care.
Nov 24 22:13:53 <Gara> With tear gas, rifles, SWAT, mass arrests…
Nov 24 22:14:01 <Echo> Beacons of enlightenment and compassion, all.
Nov 24 22:14:02 <Cristobal> Yeah I don't think is viable strategy because they would crackdown before it can be established as the status quo.
Nov 24 22:14:37 <Gara> Then why are you suggesting it?
Nov 24 22:14:42 <MonkeyBomb> I don't think that's a status quo we as Americans want anyhow.
Nov 24 22:14:53 <Gara> Well, MonkeyBomb, it wouldn't be a real one.
Nov 24 22:14:55 <Gara> New*
Nov 24 22:14:57 <Echo> You literally just said it was a "solid strategy", Cristobal
Nov 24 22:15:08 <MonkeyBomb> Gara, yeah.
Nov 24 22:15:11 <Gara> Hey, Echo.
Nov 24 22:15:11 <Echo> Less than 15 lines later it turns to "Yeah I don't think is viable strategy"
Nov 24 22:15:27 <Echo> yo
Nov 24 22:15:30 <Cristobal> I remember reading there were very little no-warrant raids in Texas because people would shoot at the cops if they pulled that. Is it true or exaggeration?
Nov 24 22:15:48 <Gara> Can you take a look at that link I posted earlier?
Nov 24 22:15:51 <Cristobal> Echo yeah, I meant it is solid strategy once in effect but I don't think it can be done in reality. Should've made myself clear.
Nov 24 22:15:58 <Gara> I want to see if this guy is going ot take alook at this "military vehicle"
Nov 24 22:15:59 <Echo> Gara: I would assume there are some shades of truth in that.
Nov 24 22:16:04 <Kommi> http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9690208/events/3569957 Less commentary
Nov 24 22:16:08 <Gara> Holy shit
Nov 24 22:16:10 <Echo> Link me, Gara?
Nov 24 22:16:13 <Gara> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/bassemmasri/theater
Nov 24 22:16:31 <Gara> Yeah, they're firing rubber bullets and gas.
Nov 24 22:16:40 <Kommi> Thats a MRAP I think
Nov 24 22:16:43 <Sax> Oh Jesus.
Nov 24 22:16:43 <Echo> Also, re-link the thing you're talking about? I'm not sure what you're asking.
Nov 24 22:16:47 <Sax> Seriously?
Nov 24 22:16:50 <Gara> Yep.
Nov 24 22:17:02 <Echo> If you show me a picture of something, I'll tear the image apart.
Nov 24 22:17:08 <Kommi> This is going badly
Nov 24 22:17:14 * MonkeyBomb waves a tiny American flag.
Nov 24 22:17:57 * Kommi replaces it with a flag for GE o.o
Nov 24 22:18:08 <Gara> Sorry, Echo.
Nov 24 22:18:12 <Gara> Didn't catch an image.
Nov 24 22:18:23 <Kommi> I got a good look at it, it was a basic MRAP
Nov 24 22:18:28 <Sax> …
Nov 24 22:18:45 <Sax> > Whatcha recording
Nov 24 22:18:47 <Sax> > Everything
Nov 24 22:18:50 <Sax> > Aw yeah
Nov 24 22:19:39 <Echo> I love how these people are surprised that tear gas got through surgical masks and hoodies
Nov 24 22:19:48 <Kommi> xD
Nov 24 22:20:00 <Kommi> I have a filter that I -think- can handle tear gas actually
Nov 24 22:20:13 <Kommi> P100 mask
Nov 24 22:20:23 <MonkeyBomb> …
Nov 24 22:20:35 <MonkeyBomb> >mfw I have to watch a commercial to view the stream
Nov 24 22:20:39 <Cristobal> I got fucking used to tear gas over here >.<
Nov 24 22:20:42 <Kommi> Capitalism!
Nov 24 22:20:49 <Kommi> Where do you live? o.o
Nov 24 22:20:53 <Cristobal> Chile
Nov 24 22:21:01 <Echo> Kommi: Yeah, P100 will stop CS and CN gases]
Nov 24 22:21:02 <Kommi> Oh god
Nov 24 22:21:03 <Kommi> Yeah..
Nov 24 22:21:06 <Kommi> Oh yay!
Nov 24 22:21:08 <Echo> P95 will as well.
Nov 24 22:21:15 <Gara> I should invest in one.
Nov 24 22:21:22 <Kommi> I airbrush
Nov 24 22:21:35 <Cristobal> There's been a lot of protests going on by students lately. Cops throwing tear gas inside universities and student's homes etc.
Nov 24 22:21:45 <Echo> Let's see what vehicles they have
Nov 24 22:21:53 <Cristobal> It's been more quiet as of late though, the government produced some bullshit and the people bought it.
Nov 24 22:22:22 <Echo> Oh man, that guy doesn't have his mask sealed properly.
Nov 24 22:22:31 <Sax> > "FUCK DA POLICE"
Nov 24 22:22:32 <Kommi> Hah
Nov 24 22:22:34 <Echo> That's why *he* was getting that through.
Nov 24 22:22:35 <Sax> > More tear gas
Nov 24 22:22:40 <Echo> I dunno about the guy with the camera.
Nov 24 22:22:48 <Echo> One of them has a training canister
Nov 24 22:22:59 <Echo> So that's why it got through on him, probably shot through already and corroded
Nov 24 22:23:05 <Kommi> O.o
Nov 24 22:23:09 <Gara> So there we go.
Nov 24 22:23:22 <Kommi> Lotsa teargas..
Nov 24 22:23:23 <Gara> This is what a militarized police force looks like.
Nov 24 22:23:39 <Cristobal> Cameras on cops transmitting 24/7 to a website would be a more ethical and realistic way to keep them in check maybe?
Nov 24 22:23:54 <Kommi> …In fairness, whats going on so far is a lot better than the riots that happened where I live
Nov 24 22:23:56 <Gara> http://www.policestateusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ferguson-mo-4.jpg
Nov 24 22:23:59 <Echo> All right, let's see this hardware
Nov 24 22:24:00 <Kommi> Is that a firetruck?
Nov 24 22:24:09 <Sax> Probably.
Nov 24 22:24:12 <Sax> Water cannon.
Nov 24 22:24:13 <Kommi> Did he just get hit with a teargas can?
Nov 24 22:24:21 <Gara> Yes.
Nov 24 22:24:24 <Echo> That's fucking illegal right there
Nov 24 22:24:25 <Kommi> OW
Nov 24 22:24:29 <Echo> And utterly lethal
Nov 24 22:24:34 <Echo> They could have just killed the shit out of that guy
Nov 24 22:24:40 <Kommi> Happens a lot, police don't have proper training
Nov 24 22:24:44 <MonkeyBomb> My God
Nov 24 22:24:48 <Echo> Those 40mm canisters will kill the fuck out of you
Nov 24 22:24:49 <Kommi> What in the fuckis going on!?
Nov 24 22:24:53 <Gara> 7 canisters.
Nov 24 22:24:55 <MonkeyBomb> This is insane.
Nov 24 22:24:55 <Gara> 8, 9.
Nov 24 22:25:01 <Echo> Christ, where the shit are they firing them
Nov 24 22:25:06 <Kommi> I have no idea
Nov 24 22:25:10 <Echo> There were three rounds straight up into the air
Nov 24 22:25:14 <Kommi> Just saturating the area it seems
Nov 24 22:25:20 <Echo> Those are gonna hit about… now
Nov 24 22:25:37 <Sax> …
Nov 24 22:25:37 <Cristobal> The gas they use in Chile have caused abortions and chronic health issues. This is chemical warfare on civilians :(
Nov 24 22:25:49 <Kommi> Sounds like CN gas @.@
Nov 24 22:25:57 <Echo> This stuff isn't chemical warfare
Nov 24 22:26:18 <Echo> CS and CN cause actual problematic reactions in a ridiculously small proportion of people.
Nov 24 22:26:20 <Sax> Tear gas is legal to use against civilians, IIRC
Nov 24 22:26:21 <Kommi> …And thats why teargas shouldn't be used
Nov 24 22:26:26 <Sax> Weapons fire.
Nov 24 22:26:28 <Kommi> It is Sax
Nov 24 22:26:33 <Gara> Yes.
Nov 24 22:26:37 <Gara> Rubber bullets.
Nov 24 22:26:37 <Kommi> As is CN
Nov 24 22:26:42 <Echo> ANd they generally need to have existing cardiopulmonary or respiratory problems to begin with
Nov 24 22:26:58 <Echo> Sax: It's illegal for militaries to use it
Nov 24 22:26:58 <Gara> There were hundreds, over a thousand people over here earlier.
Nov 24 22:27:01 <Cristobal> I wouldn't be surprised if the fucking military were forbidden to use this gas but the cops were allowed by some bizarre legal oversight. (In Chile at least, I know USA military does use gas)
Nov 24 22:27:01 <Kommi> Its fairly safe for the majority of the population
Nov 24 22:27:02 <Echo> Cops can
Nov 24 22:27:24 <Echo> Cristobal: We actually can't use tear gas overseas.
Nov 24 22:27:27 <Cristobal> I know the gas they use in Chile is considered a chemical weapon and forbidden by international law, for military use at least.
Nov 24 22:27:43 <Echo> Yeah, that's for all chemical agents
Nov 24 22:27:47 <Echo> It's a matter of language
Nov 24 22:28:01 <Echo> CS and CN gas do little more than cause a sensation of being unable to breathe
Nov 24 22:28:03 <Echo> You actually can
Nov 24 22:28:11 <Kommi> And the US isn't a signatory to most of those treaties anyway..
Nov 24 22:28:16 <Echo> It just results in an incredibly uncomfortable sensation
Nov 24 22:28:21 <Cristobal> I know, I've never been to badly affected by it myself but I've seen people having a bad fucking time.
Nov 24 22:28:29 <Kommi> Its safer than pepper spray if I remember correctly
Nov 24 22:28:35 <Echo> It is.
Nov 24 22:28:42 <Cristobal> Overweight old people laying on the floor being trampled by a coughing mass of deranged protesters, that's what tear gas can do >.<
Nov 24 22:28:46 <Echo> A lot of the reaction is more psychological than anything.
Nov 24 22:29:08 <Echo> Not to say it doesn't have its physiological components.
Nov 24 22:29:20 <Kommi> Burning, itching, and a bit off choking
Nov 24 22:29:46 <Echo> After a while, you get to a point where you can actually breathe it without too much trouble.
Nov 24 22:29:56 <Kommi> Really?
Nov 24 22:29:59 <Echo> As long as you're kind of inured to it, and used to its effects.
Nov 24 22:30:00 <Echo> Yeah.
Nov 24 22:30:08 <Kommi> Thats not too surprising I…
Nov 24 22:30:10 <Kommi> Thats more gas
Nov 24 22:30:12 <Cristobal> 9
Nov 24 22:30:16 <Kommi> 10
Nov 24 22:30:17 <Gara> More shots, too.
Nov 24 22:30:18 <Gara> 10.
Nov 24 22:30:19 <Gara> Yeah.
Nov 24 22:30:23 <Kommi> 11
Nov 24 22:30:23 <Gara> 11, 12.
Nov 24 22:30:36 <Cristobal> 12 12 13
Nov 24 22:31:12 <Kommi> Well, so far it seems this won't turn into another LA Riot or worse
Nov 24 22:32:18 * PaulS_laptop (natsigryk.ni.evac|46c#natsigryk.ni.evac|46c) has joined
Nov 24 22:32:18 * ChanServ sets mode +a on #xiaobits PaulS_laptop
Nov 24 22:32:18 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to PaulS_laptop
Nov 24 22:32:29 <Echo> Also, Gara, haven't seen any actual military vehicles in this feed yet.
Nov 24 22:32:38 <Echo> And this guy's filming on a potato.
Nov 24 22:32:41 <Gara> Sorta.
Nov 24 22:32:50 <Kommi> Theres one right there
Nov 24 22:32:55 <Kommi> Its an MRAP
Nov 24 22:33:02 <Kommi> Oh, nope
Nov 24 22:33:04 <Echo> That is…
Nov 24 22:33:05 <Echo> No.
Nov 24 22:33:05 <Kommi> Thats a 350
Nov 24 22:33:11 <MonkeyBomb> Fucking
Nov 24 22:33:11 <Kommi> Or 150
Nov 24 22:33:12 <Echo> That is not an MRAP.
Nov 24 22:33:14 <MonkeyBomb> Frosted Mini Wheats
Nov 24 22:33:16 <Kommi> No its not
Nov 24 22:33:21 <Kommi> Its a civilian truck
Nov 24 22:33:24 <MonkeyBomb> Goddamn commercials.
Nov 24 22:33:31 <Gara> mfw adblock+
Nov 24 22:33:36 <Echo> Those are just reinforced trucks and vans
Nov 24 22:33:39 <MonkeyBomb> Chrome is fucking up.
Nov 24 22:33:40 <MonkeyBomb> It stutters.
Nov 24 22:33:45 <MonkeyBomb> I'm using IE.
Nov 24 22:33:50 <Kommi> Yeah, and its stuttering all the time
Nov 24 22:34:06 <MonkeyBomb> Also, holy shit, what's the point of watching a live stream with 30 seconds of commercials interrupting?
Nov 24 22:34:13 <Kommi> Money
Nov 24 22:34:14 <Kommi> \o
Nov 24 22:34:17 <Kommi> *\o/
Nov 24 22:34:17 <Echo> These guys need to to snort some milk
Nov 24 22:34:22 <Echo> -1 to
Nov 24 22:34:55 <Gara> Yay, firefox
Nov 24 22:35:09 <Gara> Whatever you have to do I guess Monkey
Nov 24 22:35:23 * PaulS_laptop has quit (Ping timeout)
Nov 24 22:35:25 <MonkeyBomb> xD
Nov 24 22:35:33 <Echo> From another feed "Umyrongainz im the cameraman, if u want me 2 to kick a cop press 111"
Nov 24 22:35:43 <MonkeyBomb> …
Nov 24 22:35:43 <Echo> >_>
Nov 24 22:35:45 <MonkeyBomb> Good idea.
Nov 24 22:35:50 <MonkeyBomb> ( '-')-b
Nov 24 22:35:52 <Kommi> wat
Nov 24 22:35:53 <MonkeyBomb> Excellent plan.
Nov 24 22:35:53 <Kommi> xD
Nov 24 22:35:56 <Echo> Yeah, super good idea, dude.
Nov 24 22:36:01 <Gara> God
Nov 24 22:36:07 <Cristobal> Ethical question: Are cops truly inocent, even before they commit an unethical act? If someone carries and gun and is ready to, say, lock me away and ruin my life because I grow cannabis, but has not yet done so because he does not know that I do, am I entitled to preemptive self defense?
Nov 24 22:36:10 <Cristobal> Ethically not legally.
Nov 24 22:36:13 <Kommi> Stop chanting military vehicles, gawd
Nov 24 22:36:24 <Echo> What, Cristobal
Nov 24 22:36:26 <Gara> No.
Nov 24 22:36:42 <MonkeyBomb> "All this to protect Darren Wilson."
Nov 24 22:36:44 <MonkeyBomb> Well, yeah.
Nov 24 22:36:47 <MonkeyBomb> Because if they weren't there
Nov 24 22:36:51 <MonkeyBomb> He'd be a dead man.
Nov 24 22:36:56 <Sax> Then Ferguson would burn to nothing.
Nov 24 22:37:00 <MonkeyBomb> ^
Nov 24 22:37:01 <Echo> Yes, before someone commits an act, they are not responsible for something that has not yet been committed
Nov 24 22:37:05 <Cristobal> And at what point am I entitled to. Say I'm homosexual in a country where they punish it with prison.
Nov 24 22:37:19 <Sax> You think they'd stop with Wilson.
Nov 24 22:37:36 <Kommi> What the fuck was that firey streak that went flying off?
Nov 24 22:37:50 <Gara> Gas.
Nov 24 22:37:56 <Gara> Or a flare.
Nov 24 22:38:00 <Echo> Kommi: A 40mm tear gas round
Nov 24 22:38:01 <Sax> Probably gas.
Nov 24 22:38:02 <Kommi> Huh.. Wonder where they went
Nov 24 22:38:04 <Gara> They go hand in hand.
Nov 24 22:38:09 <Kommi> O.o
Nov 24 22:38:09 <Gara> A house.
Nov 24 22:38:12 <Gara> A neighborhood.
Nov 24 22:38:18 <Kommi> …Why are they gassing houses and media?
Nov 24 22:38:23 <Echo> 40mm rounds are ridiculously obvious at night
Nov 24 22:38:27 <Gara> They hit the other side of that block earlier.
Nov 24 22:38:38 <Kommi> 40mm rounds are huge
Nov 24 22:38:40 <Cristobal> Echo my question points as, maybe they do commit an act, the active preparation and disposition to do do another act. They are searching for me "by default". Can't that "searching" be considered an unethical violent act? I'd think so.
Nov 24 22:38:47 <Gara> No.
Nov 24 22:38:52 <Echo> Kommi: Because it's hard to tell who's media and who's a citizen
Nov 24 22:38:56 <Kommi> ..Good point
Nov 24 22:38:57 <Echo> When everyone's using smaller cameras
Nov 24 22:39:16 <Kommi> If you use a larger camera, israelis suddenly appear and shoot you with a tank
Nov 24 22:39:17 <Gara> How does fire react with tear gas?
Nov 24 22:39:22 <Kommi> Uhhh..
Nov 24 22:39:24 <Echo> Depends on the kind of gas
Nov 24 22:39:32 <Echo> Most of it's non-flammable.
Nov 24 22:39:35 <Kommi> Yeah
Nov 24 22:39:36 * PaulS_laptop (natsigryk.ni.evac|46c#natsigryk.ni.evac|46c) has joined
Nov 24 22:39:36 * ChanServ sets mode +a on #xiaobits PaulS_laptop
Nov 24 22:39:36 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to PaulS_laptop
Nov 24 22:39:41 <Gara> …
Nov 24 22:39:42 <Kommi> The cannisters get really hot though
Nov 24 22:39:43 <Sax> …
Nov 24 22:39:47 <Sax> They lit a cop car on fire.
Nov 24 22:39:48 <Gara> Oh fuck they lit a police car on fire.
Nov 24 22:39:50 <Sax> -.-
Nov 24 22:39:52 <Kommi> wat
Nov 24 22:39:52 <Echo> Yeah, they generate gas by burning.
Nov 24 22:39:57 <Kommi> God damn dubasses
Nov 24 22:40:01 <Sax> It's like Toronto all over again.
Nov 24 22:40:02 <Kommi> I accidently a letter
Nov 24 22:40:08 <MonkeyBomb> Good job.
Nov 24 22:40:09 <Sax> G20, 2010.
Nov 24 22:40:13 <Kommi> Are those air raid sirens?
Nov 24 22:40:17 <Echo> No
Nov 24 22:40:18 <Sax> No.
Nov 24 22:40:19 <Gara> No.
Nov 24 22:40:21 <Sax> Car horns.
Nov 24 22:40:21 <Echo> The car's horn went off
Nov 24 22:40:24 <Echo> When it started burning
Nov 24 22:40:24 <Kommi> Ahh
Nov 24 22:40:31 <Echo> That, or someone else was laying on it
Nov 24 22:40:55 <Echo> Yeah, that's someone else laying in on the horn
Nov 24 22:41:00 <MonkeyBomb> Tonight is the night
Nov 24 22:41:10 <Sax> What was the second set of shots?
Nov 24 22:41:11 <MonkeyBomb> You visit friends and family out of town in Ferguson.
Nov 24 22:41:16 <Sax> Didn't sound like rubber bullets.
Nov 24 22:41:20 <Kommi> Uh oh…
Nov 24 22:41:23 <Echo> That's not peopel firing
Nov 24 22:41:24 <Gara> Car?
Nov 24 22:41:26 <Echo> That's ammo cooking off
Nov 24 22:41:28 <Gara> Yeah.
Nov 24 22:41:31 <Kommi> Lovely
Nov 24 22:41:33 <Echo> Ammo in the burning copcar
Nov 24 22:41:36 <Echo> It sounds way different
Nov 24 22:41:36 <Sax> GG no re
Nov 24 22:41:46 <Echo> Way quieter, way more hollow
Nov 24 22:42:27 <Scantron> Back, and suspecting that my interest in discussion was an artifact of hunger.
Nov 24 22:42:40 * PaulS_laptop has quit (Ping timeout)
Nov 24 22:42:53 <Gara> God, just earlier he was /pleading/ with the police to not hurt anyne.
Nov 24 22:43:01 <Kommi> o.x
Nov 24 22:43:05 <Kommi> Yeah, this guy is annoying me…
Nov 24 22:43:20 <Gara> No shit it goes through the mask
Nov 24 22:43:22 <Echo> You guys are all watching the BassemMasri guy, right?
Nov 24 22:43:30 <Kommi> Yep
Nov 24 22:43:36 <Gara> Yeah.
Nov 24 22:43:48 <Cristobal> First I read they lit up a car and thought it was stupid but the fact that bullents maybe meant for them are burning inside too… It changes the perspective if only a little for me. Fuck this things make me angry :(
Nov 24 22:44:06 <Gara> WE don't know if they lit it.
Nov 24 22:44:12 <MonkeyBomb> Cop cars probably always have bullets in them.
Nov 24 22:44:15 <MonkeyBomb> vOv
Nov 24 22:44:19 <Gara> They do.
Nov 24 22:44:46 <Echo> Cristobal: Cops carry live rounds.
Nov 24 22:44:50 <Echo> And usually a couple mags of spare ammo.
Nov 24 22:44:54 <Echo> If you set the car on fire.
Nov 24 22:44:57 <Kommi> And lots of shells
Nov 24 22:44:57 <MonkeyBomb> "Live rounds in that car going off. A lot of people standing around that can get shot by the rounds in the car."
Nov 24 22:44:59 <MonkeyBomb> wat
Nov 24 22:45:04 <Echo> It's going to burn.
Nov 24 22:45:05 <MonkeyBomb> Does that… does that even work?
Nov 24 22:45:06 <Echo> And detonate.
Nov 24 22:45:09 <Kommi> Noooo…
Nov 24 22:45:34 <MonkeyBomb> asd;flflflflj
Nov 24 22:45:35 <MonkeyBomb> Fucking ads
Nov 24 22:45:42 <MonkeyBomb> Right when he police start doin' shit.
Nov 24 22:45:45 <Echo> MonkeyBomb: And yeah.
Nov 24 22:45:47 <Kommi> @.@
Nov 24 22:45:48 <Echo> It can.
Nov 24 22:45:49 <Gara> I doubt it'll explode.
Nov 24 22:45:58 <Echo> They're usually not moving with any real velocity.
Nov 24 22:46:28 <Echo> Due to it basically having a barrel length of the length of the bullet shoved into the cartridge
Nov 24 22:46:37 * PaulS_laptop (natsigryk.ni.evac|46c#natsigryk.ni.evac|46c) has joined
Nov 24 22:46:37 * ChanServ sets mode +a on #xiaobits PaulS_laptop
Nov 24 22:46:37 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to PaulS_laptop
Nov 24 22:46:39 <Echo> And even then, it's only acting on the rearward part
Nov 24 22:46:51 <Echo> This causes it to start yawing immediately
Nov 24 22:47:17 <Echo> So you have a low-velocity hunk of metal flying around. Unlikely to penetrate anything, but you'd know you got smacked by something.
Nov 24 22:47:23 <Kommi> Yeah
Nov 24 22:47:29 <Scantron> Anyways, Echo, fuck you and your authoritarian white supremacist bullshit, kill yourself and save some freedom-lover the trouble. I'm out.
Nov 24 22:47:32 <Echo> Depends greatly on the kind of the round.
Nov 24 22:47:37 <Kommi> O.o
Nov 24 22:47:40 <Echo> I'm sorry?
Nov 24 22:47:40 * Scantron (knad.eht.fo.emoh.eht.dna.deew.eht.fo.dn|l#knad.eht.fo.emoh.eht.dna.deew.eht.fo.dn|l) has left (Leaving)
Nov 24 22:47:40 <Kommi> The heck?
Nov 24 22:47:46 <Kommi> …What just happened?

Re: Scantron

djkaktus 25 Nov 2014 04:39

This is fairly damning, unfortunately. From what I see, there was nothing inflammatory being said by anybody, let alone Echo, at any point directly leading up to the incident. That kind of response, in what was otherwise a fairly civil chat room, was unacceptable.

Scan, your response (in this thread) to this still bothers me. It is not our place to discipline opinions. People have differences of opinion in 19 all the time, and usually it's handled fairly amicably. In situations where it isn't, operators step in. We don't expect everybody to agree about everything, nor should they. That's what breeds discussion.

But this kind of reaction, one where you would directly tell another user to kill themselves over a difference in opinion, stands in opposition to the principles of the channel. As an operator, I cannot condone that.

That being said, I haven't been doing this for very long, and am not accustomed to how discipline is handled in these situations. I'll wait until other voices are present before deciding.

As a final note, I get where you're coming from, Scan. You and I are on the same page about a lot of things, just like I disagree with Echo about most things , but there are better ways to handle this.

Edit: After reading Moose's post, I also advocate a warning. While I think this is pretty unbecoming of somebody who is a mod on the wiki, the fact is that this wasn't a site offense, and in 19 (and its offshoots) Scantron is just another user, and this is a first offense.

Last edited on 25 Nov 2014 06:10 by djkaktus Show more

Re: Scantron

thedeadlymoose 25 Nov 2014 06:19

All of your post is good, except one thing I will address now.

It is not our place to discipline opinions.

Strongly stating one's opinion is not, in and of itself, disciplining someone else's opinion. The personal abuse was the issue here.

Additionally, sometimes it is our place to discipline opinions. If someone wants to say in 19 — to pick a real opinion being expressed by real people at this very moment — that the black people being killed by police in Ferguson and elsewhere deserved to be killed — we are within our rights to boot the fuck out of the people saying that.

Yes, there are potential ambiguities here, but I'm picking a relatively unambiguous example by way of demonstration.

Ops are also within their rights to strongly debate people with op hats off, especially if they can keep it from becoming excessively disruptive (or they have a less involved op ready to make that call). This doesn't automatically qualify as disciplining opinions; ops are not required to adhere to some golden-mean-fallacy-style "politically neutral" stance.

The rest of your post is on point.

Re: Scantron

rumetzen 25 Nov 2014 04:49

From the log I don't see anything that makes these even remotely acceptable. I'm actually struggling to think of any situation where we should let this kind of behavior slide.

---

read YONQ

Re: Scantron

RJB_R 25 Nov 2014 05:14

Echo seemed to be limiting himself to factual aspects that he could provide with his military experience. This was grossly inappropriate, and Scan knows better.

---

Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you!

Re: Scantron

Silberescher 25 Nov 2014 05:49

We wouldn't accept this from someone new to chat, and we should hold moderators to that standard at minimum.

Scantron, telling someone to kill themselves because you don't like their opinions is actually very authoritarian, more so than anything else I see going on in those logs. So iin addition to being entirely over the line, it's frankly hypocritical.

The worst part is, you know this isn't acceptable behavior, especially from someone with your status, and you don't seem to care. You've found the point where shitposting stops being merely a space-wasting nuisance and starts being toxic.

Re: Scantron

thedeadlymoose 25 Nov 2014 06:03

Personal note: I haven't been on chat because I am really fucking angry about Ferguson and the white supremacist/privilege shit going on with it, and I don't want to be mad at people for inevitably unrelated reasons.

This makes the fact that I need to step in to deal with this… pretty irritating, to say the least.

---

Scantron:

OPs have three options here: Stop people from being white supremacists in 19 and extensions thereof, stop me from being in 19 and extensions thereof, or allow me to talk that way to the aforementioned white supremacists. I find all of these options acceptable. I do not regret my behavior or consider it immoral.

I want to single out "Stop people from being white supremacists in 19 and extensions thereof".

Unless you meant 'ban them if they have [ever, in any way, in any venue] expressed something like this', then this is a completely full of shit option you're offering us, since this isn't what set you off. As far as I can tell, your personal knowledge of Echo is what did so. While I sympathize with this, it does not change that what you're saying is completely full of shit.

I don't care about that. It's not against the rules to be completely full of shit.

However: It is utterly unacceptable to tell someone to go kill themselves (unless they first used the same rhetoric), no matter how correct you are otherwise.

Let's be perfectly clear:

(A) fuck your authoritarian white supremacist bullshit

Acceptable if borderline since Echo wasn't saying shit. (If he were, even if couched in nicer terms, it would be completely acceptable, though grounds for an op to boot the conversation.)

(B) Anyways, Echo, fuck you

Not acceptable due to our rules against flaming/personal abuse, but something we'd let slide on a first offense from a non-op.

(C) kill yourself and save some freedom-lover the trouble. I'm out.

Utterly unacceptable under any circumstances.

Additionally, you conflating (A) and (C) to take moral high ground — while not against the rules — is kind of shit, don't you think? You're implying that for you to call out white supremacist shit as white supremacist shit (which is perfectly acceptable, I don't care how angry it makes people), you need to tell someone to go kill themselves. This is at best disingenuous. At worst… well, for now I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.

As far as I can tell, this is your first real offense in chat. Therefore, this is your warning. Further offenses (by which I mean, further abuse to other chat members, deserving or not) will result in a ban.

---

Rest in a separate post.

Last edited on 25 Nov 2014 06:49 by thedeadlymoose Show more

Chat Guidelines subthread

thedeadlymoose 25 Nov 2014 06:04

Xiao: You used #xiaobits as an extension of 19 for political chat… and you have Echo opped in there? And PaulS is adminned in there? This is utterly unacceptable, especially for a topic like Ferguson, given that Echo in particular has repeatedly expressed white supremacist beliefs (I don't care if ironic or not) as well as a passel of other awfulness in the past.

Please do not do this again. If it is still ongoing, then you need to put a stop to it immediately. #xiaobits is not to be considered an overflow chat for #site19 for the purposes of political chat, period. (Though there's nothing against letting chat continue unofficially there, since I assume it's already going.)

#neutralzone is an acceptable overflow room; I don't know of other 'generic'/'neutral' overflow chats at the moment, even though NZ isn't ideal for all conversations, being dedicated mostly to debate. Creation of a dedicated overflow channel is probably something we need to do. (Please talk to me before permanently creating such a channel, though; I'd rather it be some form of cooperative effort, not just another user's personal channel.)

Last edited on 25 Nov 2014 08:26 by thedeadlymoose Show more

Re: Scantron

Crayne 25 Nov 2014 08:08

This seemed to be caused by far more than just the conversation at the time, and frankly, you should have known better, Scantron. If a topic takes you to a place where "rational" and "calm" are just words other people use, you need to disconnect and have a camomille tea or something. I'd quote Star Wars about hate and anger, but I can't without spasming uncontrollably at the horrific quality of the dialogue.

Anyway, I noticed a warning wasn't among your preferred options, so I'm left wondering exactly what you want here.

While I think this is pretty unbecoming of somebody who is a mod on the wiki, the fact is that this wasn't a site offense, and in 19 (and its offshoots) Scantron is just another user, and this is a first offense.

I have to disagree there. Wiki staff should be held to the same standards in chat as on the wiki, and vice versa. We represent the community in both places. While there's certainly a number of chat users who are not site users, there are many who frequent both, and to these people, X the staff member is X the chat persona.

Re: Scantron

Adam Smascher 25 Nov 2014 09:22

I am troubled by Scantron's response to people calling him on this in staff chat and in this thread.

Logs from staff chat.

Nov 24 22:47:38 <Sax> Scantron
Nov 24 22:47:39 <Sax> What the fuck.
Nov 24 22:47:53 <Sax> No, seriously.
Nov 24 22:47:56 <Sax> What the flying fuck.
Nov 24 22:47:56 <Scantron> I apologize for nothing
Nov 24 22:48:06 <Scantron> Switching to laptop.
Nov 24 22:48:11 <RhettWork> sometimes i feel like i'm missing out by not being in 19
Nov 24 22:48:15 <RhettWork> and then i go into 19
Nov 24 22:48:22 <RhettWork> and about 20 minutes later decide yeaaaah no
Nov 24 22:48:25 <RhettWork> that wasnt worth it
Nov 24 22:48:29 * Shrek (knad.eht.fo.emoh.eht.dna.deew.eht.fo.dn|l#knad.eht.fo.emoh.eht.dna.deew.eht.fo.dn|l) has joined
Nov 24 22:48:30 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Shrek
Nov 24 22:48:48 * Bouncl (ecnuoB.ecnuoB.ecnuoB|lcnuoB#ecnuoB.ecnuoB.ecnuoB|lcnuoB) has joined
Nov 24 22:48:50 <RhettWork> however….
Nov 24 22:49:09 <Silber> wait what did scantron do this time
Nov 24 22:49:15 <kaktus> Sax, what?
Nov 24 22:49:16 <kaktus> lol
Nov 24 22:49:52 <Sax> <Scantron> Anyways, Echo, fuck you and your authoritarian white supremacist bullshit, kill yourself and save some freedom-lover the trouble. I'm out.
Nov 24 22:49:56 <Sax> From #xiaobits
Nov 24 22:50:08 <Sax> If it weren't opened up to the rest of the site population, I wouldn't give two shits.
Nov 24 22:50:35 <Nusquam> what
Nov 24 22:50:37 <Shrek> If I didn't want to make it public, I would have PMed him.
Nov 24 22:51:20 <Reject> what
Nov 24 22:51:26 <Silber> what
Nov 24 22:51:35 <kaktus> what
Nov 24 22:51:44 <Sax> Dude.
Nov 24 22:51:50 <Sax> C'mon.
Nov 24 22:51:59 <Shrek> i stand by what i said
Nov 24 22:51:59 <Sax> I opened up that room officially to allow for Ferguson discussion.
Nov 24 22:52:04 <Sax> To take it out of 19.
Nov 24 22:52:18 <RhettWork> echo's authoritarian white supremacist? who knew
Nov 24 22:52:20 <Sax> IN other words, it was a temporary extension of 19.
Nov 24 22:52:32 <Shrek> Your point?
Nov 24 22:52:46 <Sax> You're fucking staff.
Nov 24 22:52:50 <Silber> mods should probably not tell people to kill themselves in public chat
Nov 24 22:52:58 <Sax> If you're going to raise a hissy-fit with Echo, at least do it in PMs.
Nov 24 22:53:18 <ProcyonLotor> In fact, I don't think any staff, or really anyone at all, should be outright telling folks to off themselves.
Nov 24 22:53:29 <Silber> mods should /PM/ people telling them to kill themselves
Nov 24 22:53:40 <ProcyonLotor> or make like, word searches
Nov 24 22:53:40 <RhettWork> preferably as often as possible
Nov 24 22:53:45 <Sax> REgardless of suck, that is unacceptable.
Nov 24 22:53:47 <Sax> such*
Nov 24 22:53:54 <Shrek> And I'm not asking you to accept it.
Nov 24 22:54:06 <Sax> You said it in front of a bunch of people.
Nov 24 22:54:20 <Sax> Some of whom don't even know where that would've come from.
Nov 24 22:54:29 <Shrek> And now maybe they'll want to find out.
Nov 24 22:54:46 <Shrek> But, I told myself I'm not going to waste my time trying to justify that, so I'm gonna do homework.
Nov 24 22:54:58 <kaktus> Guys, alright. Hang on.
Nov 24 22:55:02 <kaktus> There are proper channels for this.
Nov 24 22:55:13 <Nusquam> I can't join that channel.
Nov 24 22:55:16 <Nusquam> Sadness.
Nov 24 22:55:19 <Reject> this is the proper channel for this?
Nov 24 22:55:20 <kaktus> Nusquam, thats cause youre banned.
Nov 24 22:55:24 <kaktus> Reject, no no, not like
Nov 24 22:55:26 <kaktus> literal channels
Nov 24 22:55:31 <kaktus> I mean, there's a process here.
Nov 24 22:55:33 <Silber> Shrek nobody ever thinks "maybe the guy telling some dude on the internet to kill himself has a point, I should research this"
Nov 24 22:56:04 <kaktus> Sax, if you think there's been a misconduct, bring it up to an admin.
Nov 24 22:56:12 <kaktus> Fighting about it in staff chat isn't going to resolve it.
Nov 24 22:56:14 <ProcyonLotor> Or 05 it or whatever
Nov 24 22:56:20 * Sax sighs
Nov 24 22:56:33 <kaktus> Shrek, if you think you were in the right or Sax is wrong, you'll have your chance to say so then.
Nov 24 22:56:34 <Reject> kaktus having a complaint doesn't always mean you have to O5 it
Nov 24 22:56:37 <Sax> I would've liked to resolve it without going through official processes.
Nov 24 22:56:47 <Reject> if it's not that serious, talking about it in here is fine
Nov 24 22:57:02 <kaktus> My mistake, I thought this sounded serious.
Nov 24 22:57:02 <Reject> that's one of the reasons this channel (literal channel this time) exists
Nov 24 22:57:37 <RhettWork> 05ing it makes this one a little more public than we'd want right now….people expressed their objections to scan and that they felt it was inappropriate. if there need to be admin discussions they can happen here, i dont think this is quite enough for an official 05 complaint
Nov 24 22:57:47 <Nusquam> Can you take +R off that channel, Sax?
Nov 24 22:57:58 <ProcyonLotor> I disagree
Nov 24 22:58:06 <Nusquam> And is there actually anything of value going on in there?
Nov 24 22:58:08 * ghostchibi (ereh.ni.tsohg|onho#ereh.ni.tsohg|onho) has joined
Nov 24 22:58:10 <ProcyonLotor> I think a mod telling another user to off themselves is fairly serious.
Nov 24 22:58:10 <Sax> Give me a moment, Nusquam
Nov 24 22:58:17 <Sax> Watching a livestream in Ferguson
Nov 24 22:58:21 <Sax> And discussing it.
Nov 24 22:58:38 * ghostchibi (ereh.ni.tsohg|onho#ereh.ni.tsohg|onho) has left
Nov 24 22:58:59 <Sax> -R set.
Nov 24 22:59:16 <Nusquam> Thanks.
Nov 24 23:00:19 <RhettWork> you also tend to react very negatively to any kind of stepping out of line at any time, proc. while i value your opinions, i cant say i'd want to go with your preferred courses of action much of the time…..this is just from my observations so far, mind you. scan's thing is an issue….it's serious-ish. but i wouldnt call it O5 serious.
Nov 24 23:00:56 <Silber> If this was repeat behavior, I'd say to O5 it.
Nov 24 23:01:03 <RhettWork> true
Nov 24 23:01:14 <kaktus> Then mayhaps it is best settled here.
Nov 24 23:01:16 <Silber> One such incident, it seems like telling off Scan in chat is enough
Nov 24 23:01:37 <ProcyonLotor> I wasn't even necessarily advising 05ing it, that was a general statement
Nov 24 23:01:44 <ProcyonLotor> I leave that decision up to sax
Nov 24 23:01:47 * Sax would've doc'd anyone who told that to anyone, regardless of the situation
Nov 24 23:02:01 <ProcyonLotor> (because frankly I'm not sure that's worth 05ing either, but I'm not sure if it /isn't/)
Nov 24 23:02:02 <Sax> However, I at least want to hear any sort of justification for this.
Nov 24 23:02:03 <RhettWork> ah. i misunderstood you when you said "i disagree", i thought that was the part of my statement you disagreed with
Nov 24 23:02:05 <RhettWork> very well
Nov 24 23:02:05 <Bouncl> what reason is there to not put it on 05?
Nov 24 23:02:08 <Silber> Sax: documented?
Nov 24 23:02:19 <Silber> also: eh, maybe we should
Nov 24 23:02:25 <Bouncl> a mod told someome to kill themselves in a public channel
Nov 24 23:02:44 <Shrek> For the record: I have no preference one way or the other.
Nov 24 23:02:54 <Silber> if johnny mc-firstdayinchat had an outburst like that we'd record it
Nov 24 23:02:58 <Shrek> But I doubt that matters.
Nov 24 23:03:00 <Bouncl> yes
Nov 24 23:03:03 <Silber> and we should probably hold mods to at least those standards
Nov 24 23:03:05 <Bouncl> silber is exactly right
Nov 24 23:03:11 <Nusquam> 05 it.
Nov 24 23:03:16 <Sax> Silber, mods should be held to higher standards
Nov 24 23:03:21 * Sax logs
Nov 24 23:04:07 <Reject> http://www.scp-wiki.net/forum/t-1056454/hello-there
Nov 24 23:04:14 <Reject> looks like someone had fun on the wiki syntax page
Nov 24 23:04:21 <Sax> A lot of fun.
Nov 24 23:04:49 <ProcyonLotor> Ugh
Nov 24 23:04:53 <ProcyonLotor> We'll be seeing more of this one
Nov 24 23:06:01 <Silber> wait is that all
Nov 24 23:06:27 <Bouncl> post to 05, make sure an admin sees it
Nov 24 23:06:30 <Bouncl> vov
Nov 24 23:06:36 <Silber> eh, nevermind, I'll stay out of the tanglebang in 17
Nov 24 23:06:41 <Bouncl> oh
Nov 24 23:06:43 <Bouncl> you're talking about 17
Nov 24 23:06:44 <Bouncl> good call
Nov 24 23:07:30 <Silber> is the official reason they were banned continuing to talk about a banned user after being told not to?
Nov 24 23:07:46 <ProcyonLotor> Silber: they continued to insult ops and then made threats
Nov 24 23:08:13 <kaktus> Silber, aye. He "threatened" the room.
Nov 24 23:08:18 <ProcyonLotor> Culminating with a drama-llama warning to 19, whereupon they were kickbanned
Nov 24 23:12:13 <kaktus> Also ages arent lined up right
Nov 24 23:12:27 <kaktus> I'm not decided that theyre different people.
Nov 24 23:12:45 <ProcyonLotor> Doesn't matter.
Nov 24 23:12:47 <Reject> they're one 14-year-old, sounds like
Nov 24 23:12:49 <ProcyonLotor> Down that path lies madness.
Nov 24 23:13:07 <Reject> or possibly three 7-year-olds in a trench coat
Nov 24 23:13:11 <ProcyonLotor> No point in finding multiple reasons to permaban
Nov 24 23:13:14 <Sax> http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-1056456/scantron
Nov 24 23:14:01 <kaktus> Reject, yesssss
Nov 24 23:14:40 <Nusquam> Everyone's going crazy tonight.
Nov 24 23:14:45 <dexandroid> .tell Scantron what the fuck is wrong with you?
Nov 24 23:14:45 <Alexandra> dexandroid: I'll pass that along.
Nov 24 23:15:25 <Shrek> dexandroid: I'm going to take that as a rhetorical question.
Nov 24 23:15:40 <Sax> And he came back.
Nov 24 23:15:42 <Sax> And hit the wall.
Nov 24 23:16:12 <dexandroid> Intended as rhetorical as I saw you'd gone afk at a convenient time.
Nov 24 23:16:58 <dexandroid> But I'm wondering why you felt that was anywhere close to cool.
Nov 24 23:17:10 <dexandroid> Then again I don't care much of the answer.
Nov 24 23:17:30 * Gaffsey has quit (Ping timeout: 183 seconds)
Nov 24 23:21:01 <Scantron> .showtells
Nov 24 23:21:50 <Shrek> Huh. Notices are shown in the channel that you're currently in on AndChat.
Nov 24 23:22:09 <Reject> hey scantron
Nov 24 23:22:14 <Shrek> hi
Nov 24 23:22:16 <Reject> your response kinda concerns me
Nov 24 23:22:25 <Reject> because it's essentially "fuck you, i do what i want"
Nov 24 23:22:45 <Shrek> I'm aware.
Nov 24 23:23:05 <Reject> the shitposting recently has sorta given me the impression that you don't care much about the site anymore — i wouldn't want to presume or put words in your mouth or anything, but is this accurate?
Nov 24 23:23:27 <Bouncl> i think scantron is just willing to accept the punishment for what i'm sure he would term as speaking out against an injustice
Nov 24 23:23:44 <Bouncl> i don't blame him for that- if you're going to do something that aligns with your beliefs, don't be reticent for it
Nov 24 23:23:59 <Reject> cuz it just kinda seems like you're only here for occasional amusement and because you've been here for a while, not because of any investment in the site or the community
Nov 24 23:24:03 <dexandroid> ^
Nov 24 23:24:06 <ProcyonLotor> ^
Nov 24 23:24:52 <Shrek> I'll admit that the site is not the predominant feature of my social life that it once was. I have my fondness for the community. I'm less attached to the idea of helping run it.
Nov 24 23:28:15 <Reject> so… why do help run it?
Nov 24 23:28:41 <Shrek> Because I'm not totally detached from the idea of running it.
Nov 24 23:29:30 <bluesoul> that's…rather poor reasoning to keep you on
Nov 24 23:30:38 <Shrek> And I'm not asking y'all to keep me on.
Nov 24 23:31:17 <Shrek> I have no interest in lying to any of you or misrepresenting myself in any of this.
Nov 24 23:31:41 <RhettWork> i can respect that.
Nov 24 23:32:00 <RhettWork> put it bluntly: he recognizes the potential consequences of his actions, and accepts whatever those consequences might end up being.
Nov 24 23:32:16 <RhettWork> but that doesnt mean he's taking action on this himself, merely not backing down from his position
Nov 24 23:32:27 <kaktus> Aye. Commenting.
Nov 24 23:33:18 <Shrek> RhettWork understands it.
Nov 24 23:33:39 <Shrek> Well, I suspect that a good number of you understand it, but Rhett is putting it better than I have been.
Nov 24 23:33:41 * Soulless is now known as Soulless|Dreamin
Nov 24 23:36:12 <dexandroid> .tell soulless get better soon please :c
Nov 24 23:36:12 <Alexandra> dexandroid: I'll pass that along.
Nov 24 23:36:17 <RhettWork> yeah. it wasnt so much that i was explaining it to people….but just cutting through the niceties people will tend to surround these things with. wanting to give the benefit of the doubt, making sure you really meant what you said, etc etc
Nov 24 23:36:42 <RhettWork> i'm blunt in similar ways
Nov 24 23:37:52 * Vivax (rewsna.na.rof.gnitiaw.ydobon|gniklaT#rewsna.na.rof.gnitiaw.ydobon|gniklaT) has joined
Nov 24 23:37:53 <RhettWork> i dont agree with saying what you said, but i also dont see it as the problem others do. however, i'm not in any authoritative position on the matter, so i'll leave that part to those who are. hope you stick around.
Nov 24 23:38:25 <Shrek> I'll stick around as much as staff allows me to.
Nov 24 23:38:32 <RhettWork> *nod*
Nov 24 23:38:36 <RhettWork> we'll see
Nov 24 23:39:07 <Vivax> Shrek You were planning on leaving?
Nov 24 23:39:12 <RhettWork> no
Nov 24 23:39:13 <Shrek> no
Nov 24 23:39:14 <RhettWork> he wasnt
Nov 24 23:39:20 <Shrek> vivax: http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-1056456/scantron
Nov 24 23:39:43 <RhettWork> he's just not backing down from statements that could have negative consequences for him as a staff member. and let's leave it at that for now.
Nov 24 23:39:46 <Vivax> Sorry I've een sick for a few days. Not gotten up to date
Nov 24 23:39:53 <RhettWork> it only just happened
Nov 24 23:39:57 <RhettWork> you're not out of the loop

Scantron's response in this thread strikes me as, "Ban the people I don't like, let me be a cunt to the people I don't like, or ban me. I don't care." If I were still an op in 19, and I got this line from a random newbie, they'd be out on their ass without a moment's hesitation. As has been stated, the conversation in the room prior was civil and did not actually contain white supremacist overtones or anything of the sort. As far as Scantron's involvement there goes, it's him saying he hopes a cop gets murdered, randomly calling Echo a white supremacist and telling him to off himself, and leaving. Then, we have his comment in this thread, and his responses in the log, which Reject characterizes succinctly therein.

If it's no difference to Scantron whether or not he's staff, and this is how he wants to behave, I don't think he should remain staff. Being that I'm technically not staff or a part of any of the teams which might be responsible for dealing with this matter, consider this as simply my two cents, rather than an official indictment. I'm not entirely sure who that would have to come from. Either way, this is troubling behavior and a troubling attitude, and frankly, I'm disappointed.

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