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		<title>Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
		<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry</link>
		<description>Posts in the discussion thread &quot;Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry&quot; - Per discussion and disciplinary case</description>
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726#post-3869555</guid>
				<title>Re: Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry#post-3869555</link>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2018 02:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Quikngruvn</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>333389</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Hoping to moot this discussion by integrating a brigading rule into <a href="http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6363299/discussion-site-rules-page-update#post-3869546">the proposed Site Rules page update</a>.</p> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726#post-3865656</guid>
				<title>Re: Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry#post-3865656</link>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2018 17:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>A Random Day</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>1841781</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <blockquote> <p>The Brigading of Articles (defined as the malicious downvoting of multiple articles)</p> </blockquote> <p>I'm not sure this is a good definition of brigade - under this definition, the 2721 downvote raid wouldn't count as a brigade since it was only one article being maliciously downvoted.<br /> A more accurate definition might be <em>(defined as the malicious downvoting of an article by multiple users)</em>.</p> <p>Regarding the question about users calling for brigades on unrelated sites using unrelated platforms, I think those can be used to extend disciplinary measures (like a revoked user can be permabanned if we learn they are organizing brigades on unrelated sites from other platforms) but I do not think they should be used to open disciplinary measures.</p> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726#post-3865625</guid>
				<title>Re: Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry#post-3865625</link>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2018 16:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>SoullessSingularity</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>637830</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>This still nets the possibility about maliciously saying someone’s naruto rp sucks ass so they make several posts ok that rp about how shit it is causing drama there, but the person saying it happens to be an Scp Foundation member. If it’s completely unrelated to the site and isn’t a harassment case then I don’t think we should cover it.</p> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726#post-3865622</guid>
				<title>Re: Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry#post-3865622</link>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2018 16:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>SoullessSingularity</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>637830</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>A user that holds malice to another site can not be something we can police any more than we can say “this person said tumblr sucks and has a Facebook about how tumblr sucks, so they’re banned”. Note that the language here is that <strong>the site and actions had no connection to us</strong>.</p> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726#post-3865610</guid>
				<title>Re: Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry#post-3865610</link>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2018 15:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>dankaar</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>1790336</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>New concerns incorporated, further edits likely incoming. New post due to the signficant rewrite in language.</p> <blockquote> <p>The Brigading of Articles (defined as the malicious downvoting of one or more articles by multiple users) is prohibited on the SCP Wiki site, and will result in a ban. Discussion of performing such on official SCP Wiki platforms is also prohibited, and will result in a ban. Additionally, discussion to perform or instigate Raiding (defined as the Brigading of Articles, purposeful malicious conduct, or other forms of trolling on another site) over official SCP Wiki platforms is also prohibited, and will result in a ban.</p> </blockquote> <p>Examples removed as I feel they are unecessary at this time.</p> <p>-Edited to reflect Soulless' feedback.<br /> -Edited to refine the definition of a brigade and cleaned up the &quot;raiding&quot; clause a bit for clarity.</p> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726#post-3865595</guid>
				<title>Re: Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry#post-3865595</link>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2018 15:35:14 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>dankaar</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>1790336</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <blockquote> <p>If the user had malicious intent, but the site &amp; actions had no connection to us, then we should do nothing.</p> </blockquote> <p>I disagree; this could easily be interpreted as us &quot;harboring&quot; trolls against another site and portray us in a negative light.</p> <p>Saying &quot;yes, we know this user is harassing your site, but we can't do anything to them because it was on their own time and has no connection to us&quot; reflects poorly on us, no two ways about it.</p> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726#post-3865147</guid>
				<title>Re: Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry#post-3865147</link>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2018 07:45:46 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>SoullessSingularity</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>637830</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>The use of Scp to brigade other sites, hm. If it is to target other users in particular, it is Under harassment and is currently against anti harassment policy&#8230; but a whole site I suppose is for disc.</p> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726#post-3865029</guid>
				<title>Re: Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry#post-3865029</link>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2018 05:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>thedeadlymoose</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>732274</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>The language simply doesn't match Site Rules, and feels reactive to a specific situation. I recommend against posting this for now, but it's a good start.</p> <blockquote> <p>What about public forums, reddit, or other non-private communication?</p> </blockquote> <p>Depends on the context and language, but most likely, yes, that would be an obvious attempt at a brigade.</p> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726#post-3865024</guid>
				<title>Re: Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry#post-3865024</link>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2018 05:25:36 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>thedeadlymoose</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>732274</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <blockquote> <p>It's admittedly a little disheartening that the current circumstances have made this update necessary</p> </blockquote> <p>Made this update necessary? As far as I know, there has been zero evidence, even <em>circumstantial</em>, that the SCP Foundation was used as a basis for a brigade on another site (the laughably tiny &quot;five-people brigades&quot; mentioned in complaints are just as easily explained from the pushing of said site on /x/).</p> <p>That said: I feel this is a good and necessary rules change. I'm fairly sure this was always supposed to be a rule since Kondraki was removed from admin (one of many, many errors in Site Rules).</p> <p><strong>EDIT:</strong> By which I mean, the exact same rule that is currently present for Chat should have been on Site since at least 2010 (but in different style/tone &amp; with clarifications.)</p> <p>That said, this seems to be focused on the RPC situation, drama which staff seem overly engaged in. (I'm a hypocrite, but still.)</p> <p>Brigading should explicitly be in the rules &#8212; but starting with no brigading <em>our</em> articles, and defining brigading from there.</p> <p>More ways the current update does not address the issue:</p> <ul> <li>If a user downvotes every article on a rival wiki because they genuinely disliked them and it's clear they were (or could reasonably be seen to be) poor quality, this is not a raid, or malicious downvoting, or a downvote brigade. (This would not be possible on our wiki <em>currently</em>, but would have been very possible back in 2008 &#8212; which is where RPC is right now.)</li> <li>If a user does exactly the same thing in our name, or using us as a &quot;base&quot;, or with malicious intent (often as admitted when confronted by staff per a complaint), <span style="text-decoration: underline;">then this is brigading / raiding</span> and should be disciplined for.</li> <li>If the user had malicious intent, but the site &amp; actions had no connection to us, then we should do nothing.</li> </ul> <p><strong>EDIT:</strong> Major omissions above ^, sorry!</p> <p>It was correct to confront <a href="http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6222272/disciplinary-a-blessed-feline#post-3848268">this user</a>. This is standard with disciplinary complaints, regardless of their origin.</p> <p>But if they had actualy downvoted all the articles based on the quality of the content alone, and then gave us a good, non-bullshit explanation of this, in no way would I support that being worthy of disciplinary action.</p> <p>Removal from staff would be merited, but that's because it's &quot;conduct unbecoming of staff&quot; to do something that might reflect badly on us, this obviously. But rules for staff are much harsher by design. We shouldn't be trying to police our users' behavior so closely.</p> <p>The same goes for anyone who downvoted in the recent downvote brigade, <em>even though</em> they were objectively part of a brigade.</p> <p>We already kind of say that (malicious downvotes), but if we're making it clearer for 'no targeting outside sites', may as well make it clearer for us too. We should also NOT make the focus of the rule whatever any random offsite user's demands are.</p> <p>(edit: for clarifications)</p> <p>We should also think through our definition of &quot;brigading&quot; more carefully and more officially.</p> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726#post-3865014</guid>
				<title>Re: Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry#post-3865014</link>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2018 05:14:32 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>DrClef</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>213153</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>I think the main focus here has to be on protecting our own site first. So the first part of any no-brigading rule has to be, &quot;Don't brigade SCP Foundation articles,&quot; and define what brigading is here first.</p> <p>After that, place a clause saying something like, &quot;Users may also face penalty (up to and including a permanent ban) for using SCP Foundation forums, chats, or websites as a means to organize a brigade on other web sites.&quot; That should cover it.</p> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726#post-3865009</guid>
				<title>Re: Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry#post-3865009</link>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2018 05:02:40 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Jacob Conwell</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>1372582</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Reading the updated version, following TDM's feedback, I feel that would be an agreeable update to the rule.</p> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726#post-3865004</guid>
				<title>Re: Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry#post-3865004</link>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2018 04:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>dankaar</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>1790336</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <blockquote> <p>This would include all downvotes on any article.</p> </blockquote> <p>Caught that, stuck it into the exceptions clause.</p> <blockquote> <p>A single user spamming a site with a large number of crap articles (or a user who can write well spamming deliberately poor-quality articles) would clearly be a raid, because it would also be trolling</p> </blockquote> <p>My concern was focused mainly on the fact that some of the focus here seemed to equate &quot;brigading/raiding&quot; with &quot;spam that downvote button&quot;.</p> <blockquote> <p>This example doesn't work because there shouldn't be anything wrong with that if said in an individual (non-mass) PM, or indeed in any side chat.</p> </blockquote> <p>What about public forums, reddit, or other non-private communication?</p> <p>Refining the language after posting this.</p> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726#post-3864977</guid>
				<title>Re: Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry#post-3864977</link>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2018 04:16:38 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>thedeadlymoose</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>732274</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <blockquote> <p>or otherwise bring harm to other sites</p> </blockquote> <p>Too vague to be enforceable, and too draconian to be viable. Any site can define literally anything as &quot;harm&quot; (see below).</p> <blockquote> <p>and/or negatively impact articles (on or offsite)</p> </blockquote> <p>Again, too vague to be enforceable, and too draconian to be viable. This would include all downvotes on any article.</p> <blockquote> <p>Is better? I know that at least some attempts by trolls on the RPC have (or are claimed to have) involved coldposting crap articles (which is against their rules), which would not be covered under a strict definition of vote brigading.</p> </blockquote> <p>And it shouldn't be covered. Coldposting crap articles is just something people do on any wiki that <em>mechanically</em> allows it. A single user spamming a site with a large number of crap articles (or a user who can write well spamming deliberately poor-quality articles) would clearly be a raid, because it would also be trolling.</p> <blockquote> <p>but attempts to circumvent this rule by citing this clause is.</p> </blockquote> <p>This can easily be interpreted as &quot;defending yourself against a false accusation = ban&quot;.</p> <blockquote> <p>&quot;Hey, look at this peice of shit article! Link here!</p> </blockquote> <p>This example doesn't work because there shouldn't be anything wrong with that if said in an individual (non-mass) PM, or indeed in any side chat. This is because <em>that's not a brigade</em>. It would, however, be bannable if said in #site19, or in a place with a large population.</p> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726#post-3864957</guid>
				<title>Re: Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry#post-3864957</link>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2018 03:52:29 +0000</pubDate>
								<wikidot:authorUserId>3208919</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Agreed, looks a bit clearer than mine.</p> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726#post-3864922</guid>
				<title>Re: Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry#post-3864922</link>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2018 03:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Modern_Erasmus</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>3129691</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Looks good to me.</p> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726#post-3864842</guid>
				<title>Re: Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry#post-3864842</link>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2018 01:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>dankaar</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>1790336</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Maybe something like&#8230;</p> <blockquote> <p>Attempts by site users to brigade, raid, or otherwise troll other sites or articles (on or offsite) is a bannable offense. Discussion by users to perform such actions on any platform, on or offsite, is a bannable offense. <strong>Discussion about articles/sites where one holds or expresses a negative opinion and/or downvoting based on an article's merits are not bannable.</strong></p> <p>Examples; &quot;I don't like this article, downvoting./Yeah, that site sucks&quot; is not bannable. &quot;<span style="text-decoration: line-through;">Hey, look at this peice of shit article! <a href="http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-173">Link here!</a></span>/Everyone, let's go downvote a bunch of articles on <a href="http://www.scp-wiki.net/">this site</a>!&quot; is bannable.</p> </blockquote> <p>Is better? I know that at least some attempts by trolls on the RPC have (or are claimed to have) involved coldposting crap articles (which is against their rules), which would not be covered under a strict definition of vote brigading.</p> <p>Also gave examples due to the fact we're getting into murky waters about what can/cannot constitute bannable discussion.</p> <p>-Edited 'cuz I accidentally implied downvoting was bannable under this language.<br /> -Edited again 'cuz I accidentally made innocuous discussion about other people doing raids bannable.<br /> -Edited to reflect TDM's feedback. Further edit on crossout section pending more feedback; will be addressed once I wake up.</p> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726#post-3864799</guid>
				<title>Re: Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry#post-3864799</link>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2018 00:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
								<wikidot:authorUserId>3208919</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Posting after a discussion with and receiving permission to post from Zyn</p> <p>Possibly something like this:</p> <blockquote> <p>Using any platform (onsite or offsite) in order to incite or participate in a brigade (in this case, a concentrated effort by a group of users to negatively affect a vote count) of an article onsite is a bannable offense. SCP Wiki members who participate in these actions on other sites are subject to disciplinary action as well.</p> </blockquote> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726#post-3864795</guid>
				<title>Re: Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry#post-3864795</link>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2018 00:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Modern_Erasmus</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>3129691</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>This seems a bit broad, as the language used here could apply to everything from discussion to authorial plugging in chat. A variation on Sly’s suggestion above seems more reasonable.</p> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726#post-3864768</guid>
				<title>Re: Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry#post-3864768</link>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2018 23:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>MrAnakinSpecter</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>1477805</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Maybe something like:</p> <blockquote> <p>Do not specifically suggest or otherwise imply to take any action either in the forums, chat, or offsite that would influence the vote count of an article. This includes all articles on the site and any future pages. Standard disciplinary procedure will be followed regardless of site membership, staff status, or intention.</p> </blockquote> <p>?</p> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726#post-3864765</guid>
				<title>Re: Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry#post-3864765</link>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2018 23:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Sly161</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>2969980</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>On mobile so formatting may look weird, but if we want to move this to general site rules or something, we can say something like:<br /> &quot;Any form of brigading (participation, planning of, etc.) against content hosted on the SCP Wiki is a bannable offense.&quot;</p> <p>Additionally, we could also state that SCP wiki members who participate in the brigading of other sites will be banned as well if we want to make that rule clearer.</p> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726#post-3864756</guid>
				<title>Regarding &quot;brigading&quot; rule entry</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-6340726/regarding-brigading-rule-entry#post-3864756</link>
				<description></description>
				<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2018 23:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Zyn</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>1404533</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Given the recent discussion and a disciplinary case regarding downvote/general hate brigades (including but not limited to harassment PMs, comments posted to incite vehemence, and encouragement of others to engage in these behaviors), it has been suggested that we update the current site rules: <a href="http://www.scp-wiki.net/site-rules">http://www.scp-wiki.net/site-rules</a> with something similar to the text already in the chat rules: <a href="http://www.scp-wiki.net/chat-guide">http://www.scp-wiki.net/chat-guide</a></p> <blockquote> <p><strong>Brigades:</strong> Do not use #Site19 as a base for bothering people on other sites. No one cares. Do not use #Site19 to get an SCP you hate downvoted. You'll be banned.</p> </blockquote> <p>Obviously, I would prefer a more professional wording. It's admittedly a little disheartening that the current circumstances have made this update necessary, but things are as they are.</p> <p>Do we have any recommendations for specific wording for an addition to the site rules? Or any objections to updating the site rules?</p> 
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