I tend to agree with Ethagon on the theme links - while Every Single Theme is a cool resource, it is slow to load and a bit frustrating to navigate. I'd be willing to budge on this since I might just be "old" in terms of my opinion on it, and shaving off links on the top bar makes things cleaner.

What would you say are the main navigational issues with Every Single Theme? I'm hoping to make it easier to use. The load times are def an issue too; I can probably fix them by (1) combining all the current theme thumbnails into a texture atlas (other thumbnails would still be standalone for ease of updating, but you'd at least get most of them visible within under a second of the page loading), (2) explicitly caching theme thumbnails on the client, and (3) loading Basalt, BHL, and Sigma theme lists in the background instead of loading them on-demand (which, as of now, causes a delay).

The create box jutting out on mobile might not be a fixable issue, but I am going to continue to look into it.

Here:

#side-bar form input { max-width: 90%; align-self: center; margin-inline: auto; }

I tend to agree with Ethagon on the theme links - while Every Single Theme is a cool resource, it is slow to load and a bit frustrating to navigate. I'd be willing to budge on this since I might just be "old" in terms of my opinion on it, and shaving off links on the top bar makes things cleaner.

I see what you mean on the main page front; however, I really like Jerden's suggestion, especially since some of the guides are not linked elsewhere. I am hoping that the end of the sandbox rules being "Happy writing! :)" suggests enough that the rest of the main page is not required reading. Anecdotally, when I was starting out with writing, I had a frustrating experience with finding guides, and I think that having some materials explicitly linked like that would have been nice.

The create box jutting out on mobile might not be a fixable issue, but I am going to continue to look into it. I also tried matching it to the red/white of the main sidebar contents to see if that would look nicer, but that was terrible, so I think green is the way to go.

Since the redesigned sandbox mainpage still has a "useful guides" section at the bottom, I'd recommend changing it to be a little more comprehensive:

++ Useful Guides * **[https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/how-to-write-an-scp How to Write an SCP]** * **[http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/doing-the-safety-dance Doing the Safety Dance]** - writing reasonable and interesting containment procedures * **[http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/technical-writing Technical Writing]** - For authors, not scientists. * **[http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/avoid-the-blackbox What Hides Beneath: the Black and White of Blackboxing]** - how to use Redaction. * **[http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/crosslinks-guide Crosslinks Guide]** - how best to use links to other articles. Additionally, check out **[http://www.wikidot.com/doc:wiki-syntax/ Wikidot Syntax]** for a basic guide to formatting text and adding elements like collapsibles, images and tables, and **[https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-style-resource SCP Style Resource]** for some SCP-specific templates. All of these guides, and more, are hosted on the main **[http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/ SCP Wiki]** on the **[http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/guide-hub Guide Hub]**. Additional writing advice can be found on the **[https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/essay-resource-hub Essay and Resource Hub]**.

also, the create field on the side bar juts out of the box it's meant to be in a little bit.

other than that, i think this looks very good.

Put simply, in its current state, the sandbox site sucks. It appears to be designed less for usability and more to prevent headaches for staff. This is not fair to Wiki members that use or want to use our official sandbox site. As such, I am proposing some changes that I believe would make our sandbox usable. Suggestions, thoughts, and/or concerns are welcome.

For the current sandbox site: https://scp-sandbox-3.wikidot.com/
For a mockup of what this would look like: https://sandbox3mockup.wikidot.com/

Top Bar

Currently, the top bar has a link to the SCP wiki front page and the sandbox front page.

I think we should use the top bar as a place to put quick links to resources rather than using it for two links, both of which can be found in other places.

Proposed changes:

• Remove the link to the front page of the sandbox site
  • We already have this in the sidebar.
• Rephrase "SCP Foundation Main Page" to "SCP Wiki"
  • "SCP Foundation Main Page" is too long on the topbar and looks ugly.
• Add a topbar category for "Writing Resources" or something of the like (rephrase, maybe).
  • Under the category, add links to:
  • Guide for newcomers (Phrase as "Basic Guides")
    • The title "Guide for Newcomers" may turn people away from reading it, so it might be good to phrase it as "Basic Guides."
  • How to write an SCP
  • Guide hub (Phrase as "Other Guides")
  • Essays and Resources
• Add a topbar category for "Style Resources" (or something of the like).
  • Wiki Syntax
  • Style Resource
  • Components Hub
  • Every Single Theme
  • Sigma-10 Themes
  • Black Highlighter Themes
• Add a topbar category for "Critique Resources" (or something of the like).
  • About Critique
    • Guide for Writing's critique section.
  • SCP Wiki Discord server
  • IRC chat
  • Idea Critique Forum
  • Draft Critique Forum

Edit: removed links to idea forum info and draft forum info to reduce clutter as per suggestion.

Side Bar

The top bit of the sidebar has the SCP social media links, which I have no qualms with. The main block of the sidebar has a link to the front page; a wall of text about crit that ultimately links to the greenlighting policy, the idea critique forum, the Discord, the IRC chat guide, and the draft critique forum; a link to join the sandbox site and a chunk of text on sandbox page authorship, accompanied by a link to the sandbox collab page section of Zyn's co-authoring typs; and a link to the SCP Wiki front page, How to Write an SCP, and the Guide Hub. It also has the Admin panel, which I have no qualms about.

Changes to the sidebar here would focus on usability and appearance.

Proposed changes:

• Add a page creation box to either the top of the main sidebar section or as a section above the main sidebar section.
  • This is perhaps the most important change out of everything listed here. It greatly increases usability of a sandbox site in my experience.
  • I think the reason it's not there already is related to the reduction of page spam. Originally, users were only allowed one sandbox page. We have since moved past that time, and while page spam is frustrating, I think that we should aim for usability. The benefits to users will almost certainly outweigh the cost to staff.
    • We are in the process of reworking Sandbox team's operational procedures, and once we are done with this, page spam will mainly be a non-issue.
• SCP Sandbox section
  • Move above the "Resources" section so it can be by the page creation box.
  • Remove the "SCP Sandbox" label for aesthetic purposes.
  • Add the main page link here.
  • Keep the "Join the site!" link.
  • Remove (moved) link to the collab page section in Zyn's co-authoring tips.
  • Remove the chunk of text.
• Remove the "Main SCP Wiki" section since this would now be covered in the above "Resources" section.
• In the section titled "Authors' Resources":
  • Rename the section to "Resources" or something.
  • Remove the wall of text.
  • Add some quick links, not as in-depth as the top bar but generally covering the same categories. Keep this relatively short.
    • SCP Wiki
    • How to Write an SCP
    • Guide Hub
    • Wiki Syntax
    • Add link to the collab page section in Zyn's co-authoring tips.
    • About Critique
      • Guide for writing's critique section.

Main Page

The main page was revised sometime within the past few years, and as a result, it is mostly fine.

Proposed changes:

• Remove "so you can have multiple drafts" from the tabs instructions.
  • This is a remnant of the age when users were only allowed one sandbox page.
• Above the instructions for tabs, add instructions for a listpages module that shows the sandbox pages you've created.
  • To help if users lose track of sandbox pages.
• Update "Useful Guides" section
  • Add a bit more info
  • How to Write an SCP
  • Doing the Safety Dance - writing reasonable and interesting containment procedures
  • Technical Writing - For authors, not scientists.
  • What Hides Beneath: the Black and White of Blackboxing - how to use Redaction.
  • Crosslinks Guide - how best to use links to other articles.

Edit: added updates to "Useful Guides" section as per suggestion.

This discussion will run for 7 days.