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		<title>[Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
		<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-14579906/discussion-the-guide-for-newcomers-rewrite</link>
		<description>Posts in the discussion thread &quot;[Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite&quot; - For thousands of years I laid dormant, who DARES disturb my- Oh it&#039;s you. Explain, idiot.</description>
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-14579906#post-5251623</guid>
				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-14579906/discussion-the-guide-for-newcomers-rewrite#post-5251623</link>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 04 Apr 2022 10:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>OptimisticLucio</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>3199573</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <blockquote> <p>If you really want to put some humor/quirk in there, &quot;moderating the chaos of the chatrooms&quot;</p> </blockquote> <p>Replaced with &quot;dealing with the utter chaos that is our chats,&quot; which I thought was funnier.</p> <blockquote> <p>is the preference to solely route those questions through the IRC chat, specifically noting staff members?</p> </blockquote> <p>It's better to have those questions thrown into chats where they can be quickly eaten by backlog, than have the same amount of repeated questions somewhere where it's harder to ignore or scroll past them.</p> <blockquote> <p>if there's a concern about &quot;collection&quot; being particularly confusing for new members, a synonym of your choice can be swapped in.</p> </blockquote> <p>I really don't feel it's needed here.</p> <blockquote> <p>my suggestion was more for people referencing the page after the initial read, not looking to skip items.</p> </blockquote> <p>Ah, that's fair. I still think the title looks weird, though.</p> <blockquote> <p>by this logic, wouldn't it be better to just not put a timeframe?</p> </blockquote> <p>I guess? I think it's better to give the user <em>some</em> sort of a timeframe though, otherwise they might think it'll take eons. On the other hand, using our <em>current</em> timeframe would break if we have some slowdown for one reason or another, or if in the future it takes longer. I felt like &quot;a few days&quot; was non-committal while also saying that &quot;it should take a short time.&quot;</p> <blockquote> <p>is it clearly noted in another guidelines page what someone puts in an author post? How would someone who doesn't know what an author post is find an example?</p> </blockquote> <p>Added a footnote there, but I'm not 100% on the wording.</p> <blockquote> <p>&quot;Writing for the Wiki isn't all that important&quot; might need some subtle rephrasing then, since some people also think writing for the wiki is very important?</p> </blockquote> <p>Honestly unsure how to rewrite it without losing the meaning it has now.</p> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-14579906#post-5251153</guid>
				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-14579906/discussion-the-guide-for-newcomers-rewrite#post-5251153</link>
				<description></description>
				<pubDate>Sun, 03 Apr 2022 19:57:32 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Zyn</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>1404533</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <ul> <li>Considering our current issue of guide bloat, especially &quot;required&quot; guides - it's an implication many new users already believe. It's a way to calm them down and say &quot;we know, don't worry.&quot; &gt; Why not rephrase to &quot;without taking too much time&quot; instead of &quot;without wasting&quot;?</li> <li>Not sure how to replace it though, since any replacements I can think of either don't properly communicate Disc's job, are hard to parse, or are overly convoluted. I'd love suggestions. &gt; &quot;moderating the chatrooms&quot;. If you really want to put some humor/quirk in there, &quot;moderating the chaos of the chatrooms&quot;</li> <li>Maybe better not throw people to the forums to ask newbie questions on endless repeat lol &gt; is the preference to solely route those questions through the IRC chat, specifically noting staff members? Any site member can answer questions on the forums.</li> <li>I think convoluted is fine here. &gt; it feels a bit more negatively charged than &quot;complex&quot;, but if this is another authorial preference issue, I will defer to the writer.</li> <li>I feel like that would be even more confusing. &quot;Wait, we collect canons? Why are they collected?&quot; A user who'd be confused by the idea of multiple canons would be even more confused by having so many of them we collect canons. &gt; if there's a concern about &quot;collection&quot; being particularly confusing for new members, a synonym of your choice can be swapped in.</li> <li>I feel like the reorganized sentence's priorities are a bit weird: It outlines a method before explaining what said method is even for. &gt; consider this rephrase: &quot;Additionally, once you've been active for a while and feel like you can help contribute to the site's functioning, consider signing up in one of the semi-frequent staff recruitment threads on the site forums.&quot;</li> <li>Also - maybe best not to help people skip the section where our rules are. &gt; my suggestion was more for people referencing the page after the initial read, not looking to skip items. If the issue is perceived awkwardness, I won't push for the edit.</li> <li>That's the wait time for now. God knows what it'll be in the future. &gt; by this logic, wouldn't it be better to just not put a timeframe?</li> <li>Also, I don't think we should tell people to write for an audience rather than themselves right out the gate. &gt; I disagree with this given the context of the guide, given how a lot of newbie deletions go, but if the team stands behind this then I will defer to the team.</li> <li>…Maybe? It feels useful but also like it might be a bit distracting. &gt; is it clearly noted in another guidelines page what someone puts in an author post? How would someone who doesn't know what an author post is find an example?</li> <li>Some people take their hobbies way too seriously, so I think it's better to be more clear here. &gt; &quot;Writing for the Wiki isn't all that important&quot; might need some subtle rephrasing then, since some people also think writing for the wiki is very important?</li> </ul> <p>I'm admittedly unsure of the repeated &quot;it's awkward&quot; disconnect, but I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt as multiple staff members have worked on these pages. We can always edit these later should the community and/or newbies find sections in need of changes/clarifications.</p> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-14579906#post-5249621</guid>
				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-14579906/discussion-the-guide-for-newcomers-rewrite#post-5249621</link>
				<description></description>
				<pubDate>Sat, 02 Apr 2022 09:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>OptimisticLucio</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>3199573</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>As with the rest - anything I don't reply to is a &quot;yeah sure.&quot;</p> <div class="collapsible-block"> <div class="collapsible-block-folded"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">+&nbsp;Newcomers</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded" style="display:none"> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded-link"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">–&nbsp;hide&nbsp;block</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-content"> <blockquote> <p>I still feel like if the question is going to be mentioned, might as well answer it?</p> </blockquote> <p>Eh. I feel like it's fine to have it there, and that the sentence flows a bit less without it. Don't feel that strongly about it tho, so i'm cool with removing it if other people pitch in.</p> <blockquote> <p>and runs the risk of implications about guides being a waste of time</p> </blockquote> <p>Considering our current issue of guide bloat, especially &quot;required&quot; guides - it's an implication many new users already believe. It's a way to calm them down and say &quot;we know, don't worry.&quot;</p> <blockquote> <p>I'd note &quot;and other phenomena&quot; since there are a lot more types of anomalies than items and monsters?</p> </blockquote> <p>As mentioned to Viv and Tawny - there are a lot of things here that are <em>technically</em> inaccurate, but the inacurracy is relatively minor so we felt it's fine for the sake of being easy to understand. I tried the suggested punctuation and it felt really awkward.</p> <blockquote> <p>note sci-fi horror/creepypasta?</p> </blockquote> <p>Technically inaccurate but easier to parse; see the above.</p> <blockquote> <p>two sentences for ease of reading/parsing?</p> </blockquote> <p>I get where you're coming from, but breaking the sentence apart comes off kind of awkward.</p> <blockquote> <p>I feel like the distinction should be made that this applies to writing and headcanon</p> </blockquote> <p>I think that distinction is already understandable.</p> <blockquote> <p>Can trim this down to just &quot;If you're new to the Foundation Universe, there are a few terms…&quot;</p> </blockquote> <p>I kind of agree with what you mean, but this edit made the first sentence way too short and it felt like something was missing. Couldn't really fit anything there to fill the space that wouldn't be fluff, and since &quot;clinical terms may confuse you&quot; is something we <em>do</em> need to address, I think it's fine there.</p> <blockquote> <p>this feels a little unnecessarily negative?</p> </blockquote> <p>Yeah I feel ya. Not sure how to replace it though, since any replacements I can think of either don't properly communicate Disc's job, are hard to parse, or are overly convoluted. I'd love suggestions.</p> <blockquote> <p>instead of &quot;either way&quot;, I would use &quot;Just in case you need to&quot; or &quot;Should it be relevant in the future&quot; or the like</p> </blockquote> <p>I think &quot;either way&quot; works here.</p> <blockquote> <p>the start of this sentence already makes the point clear, I think you can trim out this part.</p> </blockquote> <p>I agreed initially, but the sentence just kind of <em>stops</em> with this edit.</p> <blockquote> <p>will there be links to the forums as well?</p> </blockquote> <p>Maybe better <em>not</em> throw people to the forums to ask newbie questions on endless repeat lol</p> </div> </div> </div> <div class="collapsible-block"> <div class="collapsible-block-folded"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">+&nbsp;Readers</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded" style="display:none"> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded-link"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">–&nbsp;hide&nbsp;block</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-content"> <blockquote> <p>I would use &quot;complex&quot; rather than &quot;convoluted&quot;</p> </blockquote> <p>I think convoluted is fine here.</p> <blockquote> <p>maybe &quot;click the rectangle&quot;?</p> </blockquote> <p>Honestly this feels <em>less</em> easy to understand than &quot;button&quot; lol</p> <blockquote> <p>maybe &quot;to get a better idea of how the community's tastes have progressed…&quot;?</p> </blockquote> <p>Eh? That's not really what a new user would really <em>care</em> about. Seeing how the site's writing has changed and evolved sounds interesting, meanwhile &quot;this is what we like nowadays&quot; sounds kinda&#8230; boring.</p> <blockquote> <p>I would note &quot;canon collections&quot;</p> </blockquote> <p>I feel like that would be even more confusing. &quot;Wait, we collect canons? Why are they collected?&quot; A user who'd be confused by the idea of multiple canons would be even more confused by having so many of them we collect canons.</p> <blockquote> <p>I think you can just go right to the next sentence?</p> </blockquote> <p>I don't think so, since the &quot;we've given you enough&quot; is in response to the previous &quot;there's so much we can suggest.&quot; It's a way of saying &quot;There's so much more we didn't even cover, but this will do for now.&quot;</p> </div> </div> </div> <div class="collapsible-block"> <div class="collapsible-block-folded"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">+&nbsp;Joining</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded" style="display:none"> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded-link"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">–&nbsp;hide&nbsp;block</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-content"> <blockquote> <p>maybe &quot;want to make a wikidot account for the SCP wiki&quot; since we still get a lot of confused newbies wondering why making a wikidot account doesn't automatically give them SCP wiki membership</p> </blockquote> <p>We cover that later.</p> <blockquote> <p>I would use &quot;pages&quot; instead of &quot;ones&quot;</p> </blockquote> <p>The previous sentence already says &quot;articles,&quot; so I think it's fine.</p> <blockquote> <p>comment on the forums</p> </blockquote> <p>We say comment in the previous sentence already; minor inaccuracy for the sake of readability.</p> <blockquote> <p>I would just use &quot;basically&quot;</p> </blockquote> <p>I think it's fine rn.</p> <blockquote> <p>&quot;without asking them first&quot;?</p> </blockquote> <p>&quot;I asked but they didn't answer so I did it anyways.&quot; Want to make sure that doesn't happen.</p> <blockquote> <p>I would reorganize the sentence a bit:</p> </blockquote> <p>I feel like the reorganized sentence's priorities are a bit weird: It outlines a method before explaining what said method is even for.</p> <blockquote> <p>In case someone is looking for that info on a skim?</p> </blockquote> <p>The title ends up looking really, really awkward. Also - maybe best not to help people skip the section where our rules are.</p> <blockquote> <p>should it be noted that the wait time is 1-2 days max?</p> </blockquote> <p>That's the wait time <em>for now</em>. God knows what it'll be in the future.</p> <blockquote> <p>I would remove the &quot;and comes with many of its own quirks and glitches&quot; bit</p> </blockquote> <p>I think it's fine.</p> <blockquote> <p>Maybe a lead-in? &quot;If you've gotten to this point, thanks for reading, and welcome to the site&quot; or the like?</p> </blockquote> <p>Honestly, that feels even more disconnected for me.</p> </div> </div> </div> <div class="collapsible-block"> <div class="collapsible-block-folded"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">+&nbsp;Writing</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded" style="display:none"> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded-link"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">–&nbsp;hide&nbsp;block</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-content"> <blockquote> <p>&quot;and ideally gotten greenlighted&quot;</p> </blockquote> <p>I think it's fine for now.</p> <blockquote> <p>maybe note the &quot;formatting&quot; tab?</p> </blockquote> <p>I don't think that's particularly needed.</p> <blockquote> <p>maybe append &quot;perfect at predicting the community response&quot; or the like?</p> </blockquote> <p>I feel like that changes the meaning of the sentence a tad. &quot;Nobody is perfect&quot; means 'as hard as you try, your article will have some flaws, so don't expect a masterpiece.' &quot;Nobody is perfect at predicting the community response&quot; changes it to be more akin to 'even if you have a perfect article, some people will not like it for some reason.' Also, I don't think we should tell people to write for an audience rather than themselves right out the gate.</p> <blockquote> <p>should there be a direct link to the Contribute page?</p> </blockquote> <p>I think it's better for them to try using it themselves, since they'll need to know where Contribute is if they wanna post more articles.</p> <blockquote> <p>should there be some info on what is usually included in an author post?</p> </blockquote> <p>&#8230;Maybe? It feels useful but also like it might be a bit distracting.</p> <blockquote> <p>remove the &quot;too&quot;?</p> </blockquote> <p>IMO it's fine.</p> <blockquote> <p>I'd rephrase to &quot;writing for the SCP wiki is meant to be a hobby and shouldn't…&quot;</p> </blockquote> <p>Some people take their hobbies way too seriously, so I think it's better to be more clear here.</p> <blockquote> <p>Should this be addressed?</p> </blockquote> <p>I broke it up into two bullet points.</p> </div> </div> </div> 
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				<guid>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-14579906#post-5247897</guid>
				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-14579906/discussion-the-guide-for-newcomers-rewrite#post-5247897</link>
				<description></description>
				<pubDate>Fri, 01 Apr 2022 03:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Zyn</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>1404533</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Took a look, here are my thoughts (edited in as I go):</p> <p>Guide for Newcomers</p> <div class="collapsible-block"> <div class="collapsible-block-folded"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">+&nbsp;show&nbsp;block</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded" style="display:none"> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded-link"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">–&nbsp;hide&nbsp;block</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-content"> <ul> <li>&quot;How do you pronounce Keter?&quot; &gt; I still feel like if the question is going to be mentioned, might as well answer it? Else just trim this out?</li> <li>hopefully without wasting too much of your time. &gt; I feel like this can be removed. It doesn't come off as funny, and runs the risk of implications about guides being a waste of time</li> <li>best way we can describe the stuff we have here - Anomalies; items and critters &gt; I'd note &quot;and other phenomena&quot; since there are a lot more types of anomalies than items and monsters? Also, the punctuation is a little weird to parse here. Maybe instead a colon, then a comma instead of a hyphen and semicolon?</li> <li>The wiki started as a horror/creepypasta site &gt; maybe note sci-fi horror/creepypasta?</li> <li>The wiki started as a horror/creepypasta site so the majority of the older content is focused around that, but since then we've expanded our horizons and nowadays you can find any type of writing you'd want from novella-length adventures to one-line jokes. &gt; I would make this two sentences, or add more commas.</li> <li>To reach over ten thousand articles onsite, we had to let go of the idea of a singular &quot;canon&quot;, meaning that every article on the site is allowed to contradict and disregard any other article, no matter how well known or popular. &gt; ditto above, two sentences for ease of reading/parsing?</li> <li>Did someone say the Foundation was formed in the 1960s, but you need the Foundation to exist in WWI? The Foundation is now from the 19th century, sure. You want a Foundation that has more resources than the eye can see? Go wild. &gt; I feel like the distinction should be made that this applies to writing and headcanon, moreso than just &quot;I think this, therefore it is like this&quot;.</li> <li>- many articles can share the same universe, and some explicitly reference each other - it just means that you don't have to try to fit everything into a singular version of the Foundation. &gt; I would make this a separate sentence</li> <li>Due to the scientific and clinical tone most of the site aims for, there are a few terms used in articles that may confuse new readers &gt; I'm not sure the object classes are inherently scientific or clinical? Can trim this down to just &quot;If you're new to the Foundation Universe, there are a few terms&#8230;&quot;</li> <li>This is not a comprehensive list of such terms, but other unfamiliar words may be listed in our Glossary of Terms &gt; the &quot;but&quot; reads a little oddly. Maybe instead, &quot;terms; other unfamiliar&#8230;&quot;</li> <li>Writing isn't all we have to offer &gt; I would say &quot;the site has to offer&quot;</li> <li>Staff are site members that &gt; I think it's members &quot;who&quot;?</li> <li>dealing with awful people in chat &gt; this feels a little unnecessarily negative?</li> <li>the two that are most relevant here &gt; maybe some more clarity instead of just &quot;here&quot;? Most relevant for an introduction, most relevant for day-to-day site activities, something else? The intent of the context isn't super clear to me.</li> <li>either by not exactly fitting &gt; &quot;either because the case doesn't exactly fit&quot;</li> <li>or relating to incredibly sensitive topics &gt; &quot;or because the case relates&#8230;&quot;</li> <li>Either way, we recommend having a general idea of how to contact AHT. &gt; instead of &quot;either way&quot;, I would use &quot;Just in case you need to&quot; or &quot;Should it be relevant in the future&quot; or the like</li> <li>rather than general information which might not be as relevant to your interests &gt; the start of this sentence already makes the point clear, I think you can trim out this part.</li> <li>If these guides still didn't answer a question you were curious about, and it's not on the Frequently Asked Questions page, feel free to go to our official chat's help-desk and get assistance from our staff members. &gt; will there be links to the forums as well?</li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> <p>Guide for Readers</p> <div class="collapsible-block"> <div class="collapsible-block-folded"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">+&nbsp;show&nbsp;block</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded" style="display:none"> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded-link"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">–&nbsp;hide&nbsp;block</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-content"> <ul> <li>long, convoluted articles &gt; I would use &quot;complex&quot; rather than &quot;convoluted&quot;</li> <li>paragraph spacing in the tabs is inconsistent?</li> <li>&quot;click on the button&quot; &gt; maybe &quot;click the rectangle&quot;?</li> <li>is the oldest work on the site &gt; maybe &quot;contains the oldest works on the site&quot;? There's some more recently written Series 1 stuff.</li> <li>or Top Rated Pages By Year to get a better idea of how the site has progressed and changed over time. &gt; maybe &quot;to get a better idea of how the community's tastes have progressed&#8230;&quot;?</li> <li>we do have a number of canons &gt; I would note &quot;canon collections&quot;, since to a new reader unfamiliar with what a canon is, it might read weird to see &quot;we don't have a single canon, we have a number of canons&quot;</li> <li>However, we've probably given you enough already. &gt; feels a little downer-ish/negative. I think you can just go right to the next sentence?</li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> <p>Guide for Joining</p> <div class="collapsible-block"> <div class="collapsible-block-folded"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">+&nbsp;show&nbsp;block</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded" style="display:none"> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded-link"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">–&nbsp;hide&nbsp;block</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-content"> <ul> <li>you want to make an account for the SCP Wiki. &gt; maybe &quot;want to make a wikidot account for the SCP wiki&quot; since we still get a lot of confused newbies wondering why making a wikidot account doesn't automatically give them SCP wiki membership</li> <li>vote and comment on existing ones &gt; I would use &quot;pages&quot; instead of &quot;ones&quot;</li> <li>post to the forums &gt; comment on the forums</li> <li>interact with the site in almost every way you'd like &gt; I would say &quot;interact with the site in various other ways&quot;</li> <li>without their explicit consent &gt; I would use &quot;permission&quot;</li> <li>In a less robotic way &gt; I would just use &quot;basically&quot;</li> <li>without them allowing you to do so beforehand &gt; &quot;without asking them first&quot;?</li> <li>The Foundation is fictional, and we'd rather not have RP spaces on our site. &gt; maybe instead &quot;and participation in the SCP wiki is meant to be out-of-character.&quot;</li> <li>While normal site members cannot comment on 05Command proceedings &gt; &quot;While SCP wiki site members cannot comment directly on the 05Command site&quot;</li> <li>Additionally, once you've been active for a while and feel like you can help contribute to the site's functioning, there are semi-frequent staff recruitment threads on the site forums which you are more than welcome to sign up for. &gt; I would reorganize the sentence a bit: &quot;Additionally, there are semi-frequent staff recruitment threads on the site forums which you are more than welcome to sign up for, once you've been active for a while and feel like you can help contribute to the site's functioning&quot;</li> <li>The Wiki &amp; Wikidot &gt; Maybe note in the title that this has information on making a wikidot account? Maybe &quot;The Wiki &amp; Wikidot, and making an account&quot; or the like? In case someone is looking for that info on a skim?</li> <li>If you've properly done the previous steps, in a few days you should be a member of the wiki. &gt; should it be noted that the wait time is 1-2 days max?</li> <li>Our platform is not the best, and comes with many of its own quirks and glitches, but we work with what we have. &gt; I would remove the &quot;and comes with many of its own quirks and glitches&quot; bit</li> <li>Welcome to the site! &gt; this is kind of floating/feels added as an afterthought. Maybe a lead-in? &quot;If you've gotten to this point, thanks for reading, and welcome to the site&quot; or the like?</li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> <p>Guide for Writing</p> <div class="collapsible-block"> <div class="collapsible-block-folded"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">+&nbsp;show&nbsp;block</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded" style="display:none"> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded-link"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">–&nbsp;hide&nbsp;block</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-content"> <ul> <li>addenda1. &gt; remember that the period should go before the footnote so it displays right (the number hovers over the period rather than there being a space)</li> <li>GoI to GoI. The format structure of each GOI &gt; inconsistent capitalization</li> <li>Includes site dossiers and collaborative pages. &gt; I would state &quot;collaborative logs&quot;, since we have collaboration pages that are tales and SCPs</li> <li>After that, you need to join the SCP Sandbox site &gt; users can create sandbox pages whenever they want, not necessarily only after getting greenlit. Sometimes users draft their concept critique post in a sandbox so they don't need to make a lot of edits to a forum post. Maybe, &quot;To have a place to hold and work on your drafts, you need to join&#8230;&quot;</li> <li>Once you've made a sandbox page and possibly gotten greenlighted, you're good to start writing your article. &gt; &quot;and ideally gotten greenlighted&quot;</li> <li>which gives several important pointers and a basic format to follow. &gt; maybe note the &quot;formatting&quot; tab?</li> <li>No matter how much of an amazing writer you may be, nobody is perfect &gt; maybe append &quot;perfect at predicting the community response&quot; or the like? Just because an author really likes their work doesn't mean the community will feel the same, and I feel like there should be a nudge to the element of writing for an audience.</li> <li>you may post. &gt; post your work to the mainsite?</li> <li>For all other pages: Click the &quot;Contribute&quot; button under the &quot;Resources&quot; tab of the top bar &gt; should there be a direct link to the Contribute page?</li> <li>create an author post under your page's discussion thread. &gt; should there be some info on what is usually included in an author post?</li> <li>Don't feel too pressured to post. &gt; remove the &quot;too&quot;?</li> <li>Writing for the Wiki isn't all that important and shouldn't affect your wellbeing. &gt; I'd rephrase to &quot;writing for the SCP wiki is meant to be a hobby and shouldn't&#8230;&quot;</li> <li>A blank page is usually intimidating &gt; I'd rephrase to &quot;can be intimidating&quot;</li> <li>The third bullet point in the &quot;Pointers and General Tips&quot; list doesn't actually start with a direction, and doesn't match the rest of the bullets. Should this be addressed?</li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> 
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				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-14579906/discussion-the-guide-for-newcomers-rewrite#post-5246710</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2022 06:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>OptimisticLucio</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>3199573</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <ol> <li>Changed to something similar: &quot;I'm sure you already had a <em>lot</em> of questions before you even clicked on this guide:&quot;</li> <li>As I replied to Tawny - The current phrasing is short and punchy, and the people who might get confused by it already know what anomalies <em>are</em>. Other examples tend to be more accurate, but longer and somewhat less friendly.</li> <li>I'm not sure it's super needed, especially since our <em>basic</em> object classes already confuse some people.</li> <li>I don't quite like your edit to the Disciplinary section, since we end up having a <em>lot</em> of periods in a short space. The sentence ends up too broken up and it feels like you're metaphorically running into a wall every two seconds.</li> <li>oops. fixed.</li> <li>Fair, fixed.</li> <li>Personally I prefer the &quot;don't&quot;.</li> <li>I don't <em>think</em> we have such a guide. Regardless, you can get a feel to that format by reading any SCP article onsite.</li> <li>We already go over this advice in the second-to-final tip in greater length.</li> <li>Fixed to something similar: &quot;This is recommended for first time authors as it will help you improve your idea creating process, and without two greenlights you can't use the Draft Forum. &quot;</li> </ol> 
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				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-14579906/discussion-the-guide-for-newcomers-rewrite#post-5246256</link>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2022 19:53:13 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Vivarium</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>6798022</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Alright, I finally have time to read this thoroughly. I'm going to give some general critique so as always, do with it what you will.</p> <p><strong>Guide For Newcomers</strong></p> <blockquote> <p>I'm sure that before you even clicked on this guide you had a lot of questions:</p> </blockquote> <p>I would recommend:</p> <p>I'm sure you had a <em>lot</em> of questions before you even clicked on this guide.</p> <blockquote> <p>Anomalies; items and critters that do not follow the rules of nature as we know them.</p> </blockquote> <p>I feel this could be more descriptive, also you may want to refrain from using the word &quot;critters&quot; since it is the name associated with critiques as well.</p> <p>Anomalies; items, animals, and sometimes people that do not follow the rules of nature as we know them.</p> <blockquote> <p><strong>Object Classes</strong> — Each anomaly contained by the Foundation has an assigned object class, which tell you how difficult something is to contain. The three most common classes are Safe, meaning containment is simple, Euclid, meaning containment is more complex, and Keter, meaning containment is very difficult to maintain.</p> </blockquote> <p>I know you don't explicitly state these are the only object classes, but I think it would be additive to state that there are many more besides these 3. It's not super needed though.</p> <blockquote> <p>The Disciplinary Team's job is to deal with users who repeatedly break the site's rules. These rules are explained in the Guide to Joining, but if you want to avoid a message from Disciplinary anytime soon it basically boils down to the following:</p> </blockquote> <p>You could probably separate these two sentences. Also, I'm not a fan of the &quot;anytime soon&quot;. I don't know why, it just reads odd to me.</p> <p>The Disciplinary Team's job is to deal with users who repeatedly break the site's rules. These rules are explained in the Guide to Joining. If you want to avoid a message from the Disciplinary team it basically boils down to the following:</p> <blockquote> <p>The Anti-Harassment Team deal with cases a little more complex than the Disciplinary Team's, either by not exactly fitting under the standard site rules, or relating to incredibly sensitive topics.</p> </blockquote> <p>I'm pretty sure it is &quot;deals&quot; not &quot;deal&quot;. I could be wrong though.</p> <blockquote> <p>This is the essential info that every new user is expected to know, but I'm sure we've not answered all your questions.</p> </blockquote> <p>&quot;we've not&quot; sounds odd to me. I would prefer &quot;we haven't&quot;. Also slap an &quot;of&quot; between &quot;all&quot; and &quot;your questions&quot;.</p> <p>This is the essential info that every new user is expected to know, but I'm sure we haven't answered all of your questions.</p> <p><strong>The Guide For Readers</strong></p> <blockquote> <p>While the obvious thing to do would be to read the SCPs in order, starting at 001 and working your way up, there's a few reasons why we don't recommend this.</p> </blockquote> <p>I think &quot;why we wouldn't&quot; sounds smoother then &quot;why we don't&quot;. That's purely a me thing so take that as you will. All in all this section is solid.</p> <p><strong>The Guide For Joining</strong></p> <p>No complaints</p> <p><strong>The Guide For Writing</strong></p> <blockquote> <p><strong>SCP articles</strong>: Fictional documents from the Foundation, detailing anomalous phenomena and procedures for containing them. SCP articles have a very clinical and neutral tone, and generally have a standard layout, plus additional information towards the end of the article in the form of addenda</p> </blockquote> <p>Is there a guide out there that explicitly states what is specifically needed in an SCP format? If there is, a link would do well in this segment so new people can get an idea of what the &quot;standard format&quot; looks like.</p> <blockquote> <p>Knowing that, ensure you put effort into your work to make it as great as it can be, and don't let any worries of failure stop you from trying your best.</p> </blockquote> <p>I would add onto this a bit.</p> <p>Knowing that, ensure you put effort into your work to make it as great as it can be, and don't let any worries of failure stop you from trying your best, and if your work doesn't succeed right away, don't be afraid to try again.</p> <blockquote> <p>This is recommended for first time authors, since without two greenlights you can't use the Draft Forum.</p> </blockquote> <p>&quot;since without&quot; sounds odd to me. Also I think think added bit about it improving the idea process so it is portrayed as a tool for improving instead of a blockade for access. Try this instead.</p> <p>This is recommended for first time authors because it will help you improve your idea creating process, and without two greenlights, you wont be able to use the Draft Forum.</p> <p>All in all, this is solid and it gets my Viv stamp of approval<sup class="footnoteref"><a id="footnoteref-737052-1" href="javascript:;" class="footnoteref" >1</a></sup>. Good work.</p> <div class="footnotes-footer"> <div class="title">Footnotes</div> <div class="footnote-footer" id="footnote-737052-1"><a href="javascript:;" >1</a>. It is the same as any other kind of opinion, but it's a stamp.</div> </div> 
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				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2022 19:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>tawnyowljones</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>7202395</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>You're very welcome!</p> 
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				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2022 19:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>OptimisticLucio</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>3199573</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>And fixed. Thanks for the comprehensive feedback!</p> 
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				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-14579906/discussion-the-guide-for-newcomers-rewrite#post-5244931</link>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2022 17:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>tawnyowljones</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>7202395</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Your points here are all excellent and I'm happy with them. I reread the guides again and picked out some stuff, mostly grammar errors.</p> <div class="collapsible-block"> <div class="collapsible-block-folded"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">+&nbsp;Guide&nbsp;Crit&nbsp;Final&nbsp;Final&nbsp;Final&nbsp;Final&nbsp;Final</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded" style="display:none"> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded-link"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">-&nbsp;Close&nbsp;lmao</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-content"> <blockquote> <p>The Anti-Harassment team</p> </blockquote> <p>Capital &quot;T&quot; in &quot;team&quot; for consistency (it's spelled with a capital T in the previous paragraph).</p> <blockquote> <p>Sign up to the platform1,</p> </blockquote> <p>Move this comma after the bracket. &quot;ask around),&quot;</p> <blockquote> <p>Finish reading the guide first, there's some side-notes about signing up further down.</p> </blockquote> <p>&quot;Finish reading this guide first. There's some side-notes about signing up further down.&quot;</p> <blockquote> <p>since without a greenlight, you can't use the onsite feedback forums.</p> </blockquote> <p>&quot;since without two greenlights you can't use the Draft Forum.&quot; Two greenlights, not one. Users can obviously use the Ideas Forum before getting greenlights, and the Ideas Forum is an onsite feedback forum so&#8230;</p> <blockquote> <p>Most articles which have a lot of effort put in end up doing well, but sometimes a piece of writing may not work out with the community. That's okay and expected, even for the most experienced authors on site.</p> </blockquote> <p>This is really good.</p> </div> </div> </div> 
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				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2022 13:43:07 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>OptimisticLucio</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>3199573</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Alright, we talked these points over for a bit, and this is what we got:</p> <ol> <li>We added a small note clarifying you should be active on the site before applying to be staff.</li> <li>Added a footnote saying &quot;hey finish reading the guide, there's relevant stuff about this below&quot; next to the sign up process, since otherwise we'd need to restructure half the guide.</li> <li>Changed the wording on &quot;good to go&quot;</li> <li>We really don't think the &quot;it's better to try&quot; section comes off the way you feel it does, and considering we got crit that had opposite complaints to yours, it's possible that this whole section is just more subjective. We're keeping it as is, since we feel it's better to have more people posting than less.</li> </ol> 
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				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-14579906/discussion-the-guide-for-newcomers-rewrite#post-5244488</link>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2022 09:12:53 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>tawnyowljones</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>7202395</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Reply time 😎</p> <blockquote> <p>Assume anything I didn't mention got a &quot;yeah that's fair&quot; outta me.</p> </blockquote> <p>Same applies to this.</p> <div class="collapsible-block"> <div class="collapsible-block-folded"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">+&nbsp;Open</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded" style="display:none"> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded-link"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">-&nbsp;Close</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-content"> <blockquote> <p>Goddamnit I wrote a reply here and it all got deleted. If some of the comments feel rushed at the start - it's cause I had to remember what I said before and summarized it.</p> </blockquote> <p>Oh no. That's fair though, and it looks good.</p> <blockquote> <p>As I replied to Mooagain - this change wouldn't help us, since anyone who would ask to be staff straight out would not be deterred by this, and anyone who wouldn't would feel talked down to. No demographic wins.</p> </blockquote> <p>Sometimes users just&#8230; don't know that they have to contribute to the community before they can be staff. Sometimes people will ask out of curiosity because they don't know how staff get recruited or whether they're eligible, and this is written as &quot;how do i become staff?&quot; It then becomes a thing of figuring out whether they're asking to be staff while having been on site like two minutes (which also often indicates a user is underage) or whether they're asking how staff works. More visible detail on how staff recruitment works and who can/should apply for it is good, especially since multiple teams with recruitment threads are needing people. I don't think having it written in the guide would deter the people who expect to be staff straight off the bat from asking, but it would direct people who are curious about staff recruitment to the recruitment threads without them having to ask. Some users may not think or want to ask how it works, but if they see it written in a guide that/how they can work towards being staff, they might be more inclined to use the recruitment threads. Ultimately, I'm fine either way on this point, but I do think there should be a line suggesting that users asking to be staff immediately are less likely to be staff but hey here's a bunch of things you can do first if that's something you're aiming to be.</p> <blockquote> <p>Additionally, a concern of mine is that if we put &quot;Wikidot is a Platform&quot; before &quot;How to Apply&quot;, people might just skim it to get to the applying section.</p> </blockquote> <p>People may skim the entire guide just to get to the applying section. The issue here is that users are told to make a wikidot account before they are told they can't use email addresses with numbers or facebook login to do that. It's fairly common that users come into 17 asking why wikidot isn't sending them the email, and this could be avoided for any user who reads the guide up to the point of the applying section if it was noted earlier in the guide, either by swapping the sections or moving the sentence about numbers in emails into the applying section. Swapping the sections would also push the stuff about the sandbox being a separate wiki, which is also a common query, further up the guide but honestly I'd be fine with just moving the emails in numbers/facebook login sentences into the previous section.</p> <blockquote> <p>&quot;It's fine if something you work hard on and like ends up being deleted. It's a normal part of the process, and you shouldn't take it as a failure.&quot;</p> </blockquote> <p>This was in fact what I understood you were trying to say in the guide, but it isn't how it comes off.</p> <blockquote> <p>At this point in the guide, the draft page is empty so they can't ask for crit nor post, which only really leaves drafting.</p> </blockquote> <p>I mean, the draft page might not be empty. There's nothing stopping a user from writing a draft in the sandbox as long as they have access to the sandbox. Users are permitted to start drafting before they get greenlights, and I think &quot;Once you've made a sandbox page and optionally gotten greenlights, you're good to start writing a draft&quot; is a clear and reasonable sentence.</p> </div> </div> </div> 
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				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2022 05:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>OptimisticLucio</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>3199573</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Goddamnit I wrote a reply here and it all got deleted. If some of the comments feel rushed at the start - it's cause I had to remember what I said before and summarized it.</p> <hr /> <p>Ok so - most of this is really good crit and I implemented a lot of it, so I'll just respond to the parts which I <em>didn't</em> use to save time. Assume anything I didn't mention got a &quot;yeah that's fair&quot; outta me.</p> <div class="collapsible-block"> <div class="collapsible-block-folded"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">+&nbsp;Newcomers&nbsp;and&nbsp;Readers</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded" style="display:none"> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded-link"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">–&nbsp;hide&nbsp;block</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-content"> <blockquote> <p>Possibly change &quot;critters&quot; to something else, because it does mean &quot;reviewers&quot; onsite and I think people may get confused.</p> </blockquote> <p>The people who'd get confused by this are people who already know what anomalies <em>are</em>, so I don't think their confusion will be all that detrimental. I'm ambivalent to this change and am more than willing to change it if you have a better replacement, but I feel like as it stands it'll be fine.</p> <blockquote> <p>For Object Classes, MTF, and GoI, maybe include hyperlinks to the main pages for those things so it's easy for new users to navigate to if they're wanting to learn more.</p> </blockquote> <p>We tried to avoid having too many outgoing links in the Newcomer guide to avoid people feeling like they have to read the links to not &quot;get a lesser experience.&quot; Since this is meant as a primer rather than a comprehensive detailing, I think it's fine not to have them.</p> <blockquote> <p>&quot;general information which might not be relevant to you:&quot;</p> </blockquote> <p>This edit ended up having two &quot;to you&quot;s in quick succession. I did edit it to fit your general <em>intention</em> with this edit, though, so check it if you can.</p> <blockquote> <p>&quot;You'll find that everything included in an article or guide (excluding links to separate pages, but including tabviews and collapsibles)&#8230;&quot;</p> </blockquote> <p>I feel this makes the sentence very awkward, because we have &quot;this applies to EVERYTHING (you know, except these things. but not to these things. so actually maybe not everything).&quot; The existing sentence still conveys the same general meaning, so I think it's ok.</p> </div> </div> </div> <div class="collapsible-block"> <div class="collapsible-block-folded"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">+&nbsp;Joining&nbsp;and&nbsp;Writing</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded" style="display:none"> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded-link"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">–&nbsp;hide&nbsp;block</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-content"> <blockquote> <p>This is hilarious. However, as funny as it is and as much as I would like to be able to say it sometimes, I would personally not consider &quot;your article sucks balls&quot; to be acceptable critique&#8230;</p> </blockquote> <p>I agree, which is why the next line clarifies that even if you want to say it, you absolutely should not. Someone who'd miss <em>that</em> will miss anything else we throw at them, and for those who <em>do</em> read I feel like the comedy helps keep this line memorable in their heads.</p> <blockquote> <p>Perhaps mention something here about how users can ask staff if they aren't sure whether they're violating/close to violating a rule or guideline.</p> </blockquote> <p>Good advice, but <em>maybe</em> not directly proceeding rule 0, since it could lead to a lot of rule lawyering. &quot;If you don't know something ask someone&quot; is already in the Newcomer Guide, and #site17 mentions are sprinkled throughout the guides.</p> <blockquote> <p>I'm sure this is just my personal opinion, but I think something should be included here about not asking to be staff straight off the bat.</p> </blockquote> <p>As I replied to Mooagain - this change wouldn't help us, since anyone who <em>would</em> ask to be staff straight out would not be deterred by this, and anyone who <em>wouldn't</em> would feel talked down to. No demographic wins.</p> <blockquote> <p>I also think this section should be moved to before the previous one because it mentions that wikidot does not like emails with numbers in them, and also I do not believe very many people will read this section if it's after the previous one.</p> </blockquote> <p>On the other hand, this section also relies on some stuff mentioned in the previous section, like wikidot being a hosting platform. Additionally, a concern of mine is that if we put &quot;Wikidot is a Platform&quot; before &quot;How to Apply&quot;, people might just skim it to get to the applying section. Again - we're trying to aim this mostly towards a reasonable audience rather than people who'll drop the guide the instant they found what they were looking for, since the latter group will neatly ignore anything we try to help them with regardless.</p> <blockquote> <p>Hmm. Yes, but also it's best not to encourage authors to throw their drafts at the mainsite.</p> </blockquote> <p>As with the previous section - users who'll selectively read the guide are going to do these fuck ups anyways since they came into the guide with preconceived notions of what they want to gain from the guide. This is written so far back because it's one of the <em>biggest</em> worries people have about posting to our wiki, even people from other branches of SCP. Also, I think you misunderstood what this was meant to say - &quot;It's fine if something you work hard on and like ends up being deleted. It's a normal part of the process, and you shouldn't take it as a failure.&quot; This isn't specifically relevant to coldposting.</p> <blockquote> <p>It's also not a necessity to be greenlit unless a user&#8230;</p> </blockquote> <p>Seems we fixed this while you were writing your comment lol.</p> <blockquote> <p>This is pretty vague.</p> </blockquote> <p>I don't think so, personally. At this point in the guide, the draft page is <em>empty</em> so they can't ask for crit nor post, which only really leaves drafting.</p> <blockquote> <p>Maybe add something about reserving space for author posts.</p> </blockquote> <p>This is useful, but I think that it's not something <em>uber</em> essential to point out here considering how wordy the explanation ends up being, as opposed to a very minor potential loss.</p> </div> </div> </div> 
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				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2022 22:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Jerden</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>1637608</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>A lot of great general phrasing advice, thanks!</p> <p>It would genuinely be worth discussing further (with you, or with others) how many links are appropriate, we were trying to avoid too many but I could see it being helpful for pages that serve as hubs for other stuff, like object classes, GoI and MTF. We don't want to distract or overwhelm people, obviously!</p> 
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				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-14579906/discussion-the-guide-for-newcomers-rewrite#post-5243980</link>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2022 19:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>OptimisticLucio</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>3199573</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Ok so for each point:</p> <ol> <li>Replaced.</li> <li>The Guide for Joining goes over staff-stuff in more detail, and the Newcomer Guide is meant to be less in-depth, so it's probably fine if we don't put that in. (For the record - we did try, but it felt a little forced.)</li> <li>Tags aren't all that useful for new readers who don't even know what they're looking for, and they're a little less intuitive or welcoming than something like hubs. Tags are super useful, to be clear, but maybe not for someone who just dropped in.</li> <li>Fair; reworded it so it's clear it's optional but recommended, and reorganized the sections so the &quot;make a sandbox&quot; note is <em>after</em> the &quot;get greenlighted.&quot;</li> </ol> 
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				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-14579906/discussion-the-guide-for-newcomers-rewrite#post-5243975</link>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2022 19:03:20 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>OptimisticLucio</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>3199573</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>We did consider adding this, but ended up not doing so, since Thaumiel doesn't have <em>that</em> many articles to warrant being on the newbie guide (less than 200 as of the moment of writing), and putting that definition next to Safe/Euclid/Keter might confuse new readers since it's so radically different than the rest.</p> 
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				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-14579906/discussion-the-guide-for-newcomers-rewrite#post-5243928</link>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2022 18:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>tawnyowljones</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>7202395</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>New guides! Hell yeah.</p> <p>Overall, I really like these and think they are good to replace the current guide. I have a few (or more) nitpicks for each guide in the collapsibles, mostly related to critique, but nothing major. The second two footnotes in the footnote block are from the guides, the first is mine. Happy reading!</p> <div class="collapsible-block"> <div class="collapsible-block-folded"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">+&nbsp;Guide&nbsp;for&nbsp;Newcomers</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded" style="display:none"> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded-link"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">-&nbsp;Guide&nbsp;for&nbsp;Newcomers</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-content"> <blockquote> <p>items and critters</p> </blockquote> <p>Possibly change &quot;critters&quot; to something else, because it does mean &quot;reviewers&quot; onsite and I think people may get confused.</p> <blockquote> <p>who's job it is</p> </blockquote> <p>&quot;whose job it is&quot;</p> <blockquote> <p>Foundation that's peniless?</p> </blockquote> <p>&quot;Foundation that's penniless?&quot;</p> <blockquote> <p>Basic Terminology</p> </blockquote> <p>For Object Classes, MTF, and GoI, maybe include hyperlinks to the main pages for those things so it's easy for new users to navigate to if they're wanting to learn more.</p> <blockquote> <p>general information that isn't relevant:</p> </blockquote> <p>&quot;general information which might not be relevant to you:&quot;</p> <blockquote> <p>so that you can vote, comment, and post your own works.</p> </blockquote> <p>It might be a bit long, but I'd recommend adding something about the forums here. Sometimes people don't realise they have to join the site to use the forums<sup class="footnoteref"><a id="footnoteref-579402-1" href="javascript:;" class="footnoteref" >1</a></sup>. &quot;so that you can vote, comment, use the forums, and post your own works.&quot;</p> </div> </div> </div> <div class="collapsible-block"> <div class="collapsible-block-folded"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">+&nbsp;Guide&nbsp;for&nbsp;Readers</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded" style="display:none"> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded-link"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">-&nbsp;Guide&nbsp;for&nbsp;Readers</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-content"> <blockquote> <p>what's going on can be an issue newcomers face.</p> </blockquote> <p>&quot;what's going on is an issue newcomers often face.&quot; (feels more friendly, more like &quot;you have this issue and it's normal&quot; rather than &quot;this is a possibility we're covering even though it doesn't really happen a lot&quot;)</p> <blockquote> <p>You'll find that anything in an article that isn't a link to a new page is expected to be read, so don't rush through articles!</p> </blockquote> <p>&quot;You'll find that everything included in an article or guide (excluding links to separate pages, but including tabviews and collapsibles) is expected to be read, so make sure not to rush through reading them.&quot;</p> <blockquote> <p>written as far back as 2010.</p> </blockquote> <p>Is this date correct? I'm unsure on the history but I swear it was 2008.</p> </div> </div> </div> <div class="collapsible-block"> <div class="collapsible-block-folded"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">+&nbsp;Guide&nbsp;for&nbsp;Joining</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded" style="display:none"> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded-link"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">-&nbsp;Guide&nbsp;for&nbsp;Joining</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-content"> <blockquote> <p>comment on existing ones, vote,</p> </blockquote> <p>&quot;vote and comment on existing articles,&quot;</p> <blockquote> <p>Should go without saying, but still; Don't be an asshole to your fellow members</p> </blockquote> <p>&quot;This should go without saying, but still. Don't be an asshole to your fellow members&quot;</p> <blockquote> <p>telling people &quot;your article sucks balls&quot; without explaining why it sucks balls</p> </blockquote> <p>This is hilarious. However, as funny as it is and as much as I would like to be able to say it sometimes, I would personally not consider &quot;your article sucks balls&quot; to be acceptable critique even if the critter did explain why, and I don't think the Criticism Policy does either. My concern is that the joke may go over people's heads here, and they may think they can be vehement towards others' work as long as they explain why and aren't a dick about the author. I suppose the sentence after this one clears it up a bit, but people do not read very well on this website. Minor concern, of course, but worth bringing up.</p> <blockquote> <p>Don't do those.</p> </blockquote> <p>Perhaps mention something here about how users can ask staff if they aren't sure whether they're violating/close to violating a rule or guideline. I think it was mentioned earlier in the Guide For Newcomers, but worth repeating.</p> <blockquote> <p>changes to another person's article without their explicit consent which change the content in a non-dismissable manner.</p> </blockquote> <p>&quot;non-dismissable changes to another person's article without their explicit consent.&quot;</p> <blockquote> <p>On here you can see mostly anything related to staff's work,</p> </blockquote> <p>&quot;On here you can see things related to staff's work,&quot; Perhaps &quot;most things&quot; would work too. I don't think &quot;mostly anything&quot; makes sense.</p> <blockquote> <p>05command</p> </blockquote> <p>Capital &quot;C&quot; for consistent spelling.</p> <blockquote> <p>Additionally, if at any point you feel like you want to join staff to help maintain the site, there are semi-frequent staff recruitment threads on the site forums which you are more than welcome to sign up for.</p> </blockquote> <p>&quot;Additionally, if at any point you feel like you want to join staff to help maintain the site, some teams are invite-only, but for others there are semi-frequent staff recruitment threads on the site forums which you are more than welcome to sign up for.&quot; I'm sure this is just my personal opinion, but I think something should be included here about not asking to be staff straight off the bat. &quot;It's recommended that you spend some time in the onsite community before asking to be staff so you're aware of how the site functions first&quot; or something.</p> <blockquote> <p>a cohesive detailing of every concert Bruce Springsteen has ever done, for some reason…</p> </blockquote> <p>&quot;a cohesive detailing of every concert Bruce Springsteen has ever done for some reason…&quot; Also, do you mean &quot;cohesive&quot; or &quot;comprehensive&quot;?</p> <blockquote> <p>platform, (if you have any issues with that go to the official chatrooms and ask around,) and then</p> </blockquote> <p>&quot;platform<sup class="footnoteref"><a id="footnoteref-579402-2" href="javascript:;" class="footnoteref" >2</a></sup>, and then&quot; If you don't want to use footnotes in this guide, use brackets without also using commas.</p> <blockquote> <p>Wikidot is A Platform</p> </blockquote> <p>Is there a reason the &quot;is&quot; isn't capitalised? I also think this section should be moved to before the previous one because it mentions that wikidot does not like emails with numbers in them, and also I do not believe very many people will read this section if it's after the previous one. It has a bunch of really useful information which answers common newbie questions (&quot;why isn't wikidot sending me the email?&quot; and &quot;what is the sandbox?&quot; and &quot;why can i not use the sandbox when i'm a member of the mainsite?&quot;) but people won't read it once they've been told how to apply.</p> <blockquote> <p>explained in the chat guide</p> </blockquote> <p>I think put the link to the chat guide here, rather than in &quot;official chats&quot; in the line above.</p> <blockquote> <p>Welcome to the site.</p> </blockquote> <p>&quot;Welcome to the site!&quot; Also imo it doesn't need two line breaks; I think one would be fine unless you plan on having a title there as well.</p> </div> </div> </div> <div class="collapsible-block"> <div class="collapsible-block-folded"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">+&nbsp;Guide&nbsp;for&nbsp;Writing</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded" style="display:none"> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded-link"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">-&nbsp;Guide&nbsp;for&nbsp;Writing</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-content"> <blockquote> <p>Also, this is an introduction to writing. If you're more interested in sharing art, see How to Post Your Art to the SCP Wiki.</p> </blockquote> <p>&quot;Also, this is an introduction to writing specifically, so if you're more interested in sharing art, please see How to Post Your Art to the SCP Wiki.&quot;</p> <blockquote> <p>It is better to fail than to have never tried at all</p> </blockquote> <p>Hmm. Yes, but also it's best not to encourage authors to throw their drafts at the mainsite. At this point in the guide, you haven't mentioned any alternative to posting straight to the mainsite and you don't for quite some time. My worry is that this may come across as &quot;coldpost until you succeed, because it doesn't matter if you fail&quot; rather than &quot;if you make the mistake of coldposting and have a work go into deletion initially (or at any point) that's okay because there are ways to improve such as using the sandbox and getting critique, and you won't be penalised for having a deleted article&quot;. Nobody is going to penalise a newbie for having an article go into deletion, it happens, but I don't think it should be written that failure is something that happens to everyone here because it doesn't. It <em>can</em> happen to anyone, but if users get crit and follow the process properly it's far less likely to happen to them and they're far less likely to be discouraged from writing than if they throw stuff on the mainsite and hope it'll stick this time.</p> <blockquote> <p>you must get your idea greenlighted</p> </blockquote> <p>&quot;greenlit&quot; is preferred I believe. It's also not a necessity to be greenlit unless a user wants to use the Draft Forum, but I'm hoping that people curious about the process will read the Greenlighting Policy. It might also be a good idea to write &quot;(not your draft)&quot; after &quot;idea&quot;. Common newbie misconceptions etc etc.</p> <blockquote> <p>at least two experienced authors</p> </blockquote> <p>Not all authors have greenlight privileges and not everybody with greenlight privileges is an author. &quot;experienced users&quot; or &quot;experienced reviewers&quot; with a link to this: <a href="https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/forum/t-9804362/so-you-want-to-be-a-concept-reviewer#post-4183926">https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/forum/t-9804362/so-you-want-to-be-a-concept-reviewer#post-4183926</a> (which shows who can give greenlights) would be better.</p> <blockquote> <p>Once you've made a sandbox page and gotten greenlighted, you're good to go!</p> </blockquote> <p>This is pretty vague. Good to post? Good to seek crit? Good to start writing a draft?</p> <blockquote> <p>and/or Site Critique staff</p> </blockquote> <p>While you probably mean &quot;mainsite critique staff&quot;, Site Crit is its own team and its eventual goal is separate from Forum Crit's so this should probably say &quot;Critique Staff&quot; or &quot;experienced reviewers&quot;.</p> <blockquote> <p>The best place to ask is the official drafts critique forum</p> </blockquote> <p>I would add something here about needing greenlights and/or making sure users read the sticky threads before posting to the draft forum (or any forum).</p> <blockquote> <p>create an author post under your page's discussion thread.</p> </blockquote> <p>Maybe add something about reserving space for author posts. &quot;If you plan to make an author post, it's best to make a post in your page's discussion with the text &quot;reserved&quot; or &quot;r&quot; and then edit it later. This is to make sure that your author post is at the top of the discussion. Author posts can say anything you want within reason, but are most often used to talk briefly about your article and to thank your reviewers.&quot;</p> <blockquote> <p>you can PM a member of the Butterfly Squad<sup class="footnoteref"><a id="footnoteref-579402-3" href="javascript:;" class="footnoteref" >3</a></sup></p> </blockquote> <p>Re: the footnote in particular, not all Butterflies are staff members. &quot;Experienced reviewers&quot; works better. We also crit more than drafts, so &quot;drafts and ideas&quot; or &quot;articles&quot; or just &quot;specialize in critique/ing&quot; is more accurate.</p> <blockquote> <p>If you think you can do well in critique, you can ask to do a draft exchange, where you and another user swap drafts and critique each other's work.</p> </blockquote> <p>&quot;You can also ask to do a crit exchange, where you and another user swap drafts or ideas and critique each other's work. You don't have to be an experienced critter to do this, but it's best to read [link to the forum sticky threads on how to give crit] these threads first if you're unsure how to start.&quot;</p> <blockquote> <p>grammar, tone and pacing</p> </blockquote> <p>Oxford comma lol. &quot;grammar, tone, and pacing&quot;</p> </div> </div> </div> <div class="footnotes-footer"> <div class="title">Footnotes</div> <div class="footnote-footer" id="footnote-579402-1"><a href="javascript:;" >1</a>. although that can be because they don't realise that joining the site is separate from making a wikidot account. regardless, if three extra words removes the confusion then I think that's good.</div> <div class="footnote-footer" id="footnote-579402-2"><a href="javascript:;" >2</a>. if you have any issues with that go to the official chatrooms and ask around</div> <div class="footnote-footer" id="footnote-579402-3"><a href="javascript:;" >3</a>. A team of staff members who specialize in critiquing drafts.</div> </div> 
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				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2022 13:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Ethagon</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>5844683</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Responses to each:</p> <ul> <li>Guide for Newcomers: <ul> <li>I'd personally replace pataphysics with thaumaturgy as that's a sciency term that does get used for magic</li> <li>I think it might make sense in the Community and Staff section that the &quot;Staff List&quot; Link in the drop-down of Community at the top leads to the staff site</li> </ul> </li> <li>Guide for Readers: <ul> <li>as that's something I see brought up from time to time in the questions forums, I think it might be a good idea to explain that you can click on a tag in an article you liked to see similar things.</li> </ul> </li> <li>Guide for Writing: <ul> <li>I think the greenlight thing is a bit confusingly worded and can easily give the misconception that you need a greenlight to write an article</li> </ul> </li> </ul> <p>The rest all looks fine to me. I like the new structure overall.</p> 
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				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2022 20:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>R4_EX</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>6519177</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>I've discussed with Lucio a little bit already and he told me to write this here as a reminder for him tomorrow, but in the section in the guide for newcomers I think that it should include a definition of thaumiel alongside the other object classes. At this point thaumiel is used commonly enough (almost 190 tags at this moment) that no article is likely going to define what it means. It would be pretty confusing for newbies if it wasn't defined in the guide when it is so common onsite.</p> 
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				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2022 19:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Jerden</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>1637608</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Commenting as a coauthor, I might rephrase your suggestion a little (&quot;exceedingly unlikely&quot; seems a little harsh, even if it is true) but I agree that putting the greenlights bit first makes sense, and I think that the way you've laid it out would be a helpful addition to the guide.</p> <p>I'm not sure on the best way to talk about becoming staff, I do think it's important to make it clear that it's not something that happens automatically if you're here for a long time or write really good, which I feel are common misconceptions. In my experience the best way to become staff is to be a helpful contributor. That said, I'm worried that advising some people that they can become staff by &quot;helping&quot; might cause more harm than good&#8230; Would be good to hear feedback from the people who do staff recruitment on what they'd like us to communicate.</p> <p>As for other guides, I'd prefer to let people know they're out there, but let them work out for themselves which ones are most helpful. If the greenlighting policy thread is an inadequate explanation, we should get Zyn to edit her comment to add in things it missed, not recommend people read another lengthy guide first. Guide/Essay bloat is a massive problem and I hope we can somewhat address it with this rewrite by at least splitting it into smaller sections.</p> 
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				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2022 17:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>OptimisticLucio</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>3199573</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <blockquote> <p>I think it might help to have a sentence telling people not to do that, or at least clarifying that staff get picked based on skills and history of helpfulness, not just being eager to get a staff title.</p> </blockquote> <p>Not sure that adding it in will actually help, since it's a kind of &quot;yeah duh&quot; clarification that anyone who was going to sign up to be staff for the title is going to <em>straight up ignore.</em> People who need it will not use it, and those who don't need it will feel talked down to.</p> <blockquote> <p>The Writing Guide Recommendation</p> </blockquote> <p>I'm not that sure about this honestly. It's good info, really good even, but it feels like it hyperfocuses on the forums as the only method of critique, along with being <em>extremely</em> wordy compared to any of the other guides. A common concern that was voiced during the last year was that this guide would just end up repeating info written in other guides, too, which is why the guide only talks about the fundamentals of posting and links to How to Write an SCP rather than saying the same as HtWaS, whereas this change adds a lot of info that can be found in the links scattered throughout the guide (like the link to the greenlight policy)</p> <blockquote> <p>adding this page</p> </blockquote> <p>I'll pass it by sketchy and see what they think</p> 
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				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-14579906/discussion-the-guide-for-newcomers-rewrite#post-5242992</link>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2022 17:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Mooagain </wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>5975504</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>I've read through all four guides, it's certainly an improvement over the old one. I've got a few suggestions that I think might improve things a bit more.</p> <blockquote> <p>Additionally, if at any point you feel like you want to join staff to help maintain the site, there are semi-frequent staff recruitment threads on the site forums which you are more than welcome to sign up for.</p> </blockquote> <p>I feel like this point should clarify why people join staff, a lot of new users immediately ask to join staff because they think it would make them cool or something, not because they have any track record of being helpful. I think it might help to have a sentence telling people not to do that, or at least clarifying that staff get picked based on skills and history of helpfulness, not just being eager to get a staff title.</p> <blockquote> <p>First you need to join the SCP Sandbox site</p> </blockquote> <p>This is in no way the first thing that should be done.</p> <div class="collapsible-block"> <div class="collapsible-block-folded"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">+&nbsp;show&nbsp;block</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded" style="display:none"> <div class="collapsible-block-unfolded-link"><a class="collapsible-block-link" href="javascript:;">–&nbsp;hide&nbsp;block</a></div> <div class="collapsible-block-content"> <div class="blockquote"> <h3><span>Where Do I Start?</span></h3> <p>Since you're reading this guide, you're probably writing an article for the first time. First time authors are strongly urged to use the <a href="https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/forum/c-89000/help:ideas-critique">Idea Forums</a> to get feedback on their concept before starting a draft, as it's exceedingly unlikely that any concept will start off with all the necessary components to make a full and engaging story. Once you've made an Idea Forum thread for your idea, you can start asking around for feedback on the idea to help improve it. You can get feedback just by waiting for someone to pass by your thread and leave a review, or you can join the official <a href="https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/chat-guide">IRC channel</a> #thecritters and ask around there. Once two authors with <a href="https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/forum/t-10629348/new-draft-forum-policies">Greenlighting permissions</a><sup class="footnoteref"><a id="footnoteref-330347-1" href="javascript:;" class="footnoteref" >1</a></sup> have given you a greenlight, then you can move on to the next step.</p> <p>The next step is to make a draft, which can be done in the official <a href="http://scp-sandbox-3.wikidot.com/">sandbox site</a>. The sandbox site has all the same functionality of the main site, but is a place for unfinished works and therefore has ratings disabled. If you'd like to join the sandbox site, you have to join the official <a href="https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/chat-guide">IRC channel</a> #site17 and ask staff for an invite.</p> <h3><span>Writing</span></h3> <p>When creating a page, you may have noticed a text editor open. This is where you write your draft. Once you save a page and wish to edit it again, go to the bottom of the page and click &quot;Edit&quot; to reopen the text editor.</p> <p>You'll need to get accustomed to Wikidot's syntax. You can read through <a class="newpage" href="http://05command.wikidot.com/wiki-syntax">Wiki Syntax</a> for basic formatting help, but we also have an <a class="newpage" href="http://05command.wikidot.com/scp-style-resource">SCP Style Resource</a> and a handy <a class="newpage" href="http://05command.wikidot.com/advanced-formatting-and-you">Advanced Formatting</a> page. Assuming you're trying your hand at an SCP, you should also consult the <a class="newpage" href="http://05command.wikidot.com/how-to-write-an-scp">How to Write an SCP</a> guide, which gives several important pointers and a basic format to follow.</p> <p>A <em>Resources</em> section has been included at the end of this guide to point you towards more detailed advice.</p> <h3><span>Critique</span></h3> <p>No matter how much of an amazing writer you think you may be, nobody is perfect. It's therefore always a good idea to get critique (preferably from experienced site authors and/or Site Critique staff) before posting, or even while you're still writing. It's never a crime to ask for help, and most people will appreciate the effort you're putting into your work.</p> <p>Once you've got a full first draft and two greenlights, you're allowed to use the <a href="https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/forum/c-50864/help:drafts-critique">Draft Forums</a> to seek feedback on your draft. Additionally, it's a good idea to continue to use the IRC channel to seek feedback and maybe send a private message to a member of the <a href="http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/butterfly-squad-roster">Butterfly Squad</a><sup class="footnoteref"><a id="footnoteref-330347-2" href="javascript:;" class="footnoteref" >2</a></sup>. #thecritters is ideal if you want real-time feedback, if you're having trouble with coding or syntax, or if you have quick and specific questions in regards to the writing process.</p> <p>Keep in mind that while you need two greenlights to use the draft forums, you are allowed to skip the idea forums altogether and just seek feedback in other places, like the IRC channel. However, that does not mean that the idea forums are not helpful and you should skip them. Most reviewers will not read a long draft that hasn't been greenlit, so if you want feedback from people who know what they're talking about, <strong>you really should use the idea forums</strong>.</p> <p>Once you get some feedback, you can go back and review your draft again and make changes. You aren't obligated to accept and use critique if you don't think it helps your article, but the polite thing to do is to acknowledge and thank reviewers regardless of whether you will use their advice or not.</p> <p>One of the most difficult things in drafting is knowing when it's good enough to post. Truth be told, that's entirely up to you. Some of reviewers might say that a draft is ready to go, and some might say the very same draft needs to be completely re-written. They're both correct, because everyone is entitled to their own opinion. As long as you think your draft is ready to post, you can post it to the main site. If it doesn't get the response you were going for, or even gets deleted, don't be discouraged. You just have an opportunity to go back to the idea or draft forums and make it even better.</p> </div> </div> </div> </div> <p>Also I'd recommend adding <a href="https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/essay-on-communicating-ideas">this page</a> to the resources section on the bottom.</p> <div class="footnotes-footer"> <div class="title">Footnotes</div> <div class="footnote-footer" id="footnote-330347-1"><a href="javascript:;" >1</a>. Anyone with three or more pages on the site, anyone who's passed a flight mentorship, and any member of staff.</div> <div class="footnote-footer" id="footnote-330347-2"><a href="javascript:;" >2</a>. A team of trusted reviewers who specialize in critiquing drafts.</div> </div> 
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				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-14579906/discussion-the-guide-for-newcomers-rewrite#post-5242772</link>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2022 10:50:53 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>The Pighead</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>3242824</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>I've read the four guides.</p> <p>Let's just say that, when it comes to the main goal stated on the OP:</p> <blockquote> <p>Reorganizing the guide so it's easier on the reader, and rewording it so it's less intimidating to the new user, could help new users feel welcome to join the site and help staff not have to answer the same question twenty times in #site17.</p> </blockquote> <p>Well, I believe the four do a pretty good job at that, so I don't have complaints. These guides are good.</p> <blockquote> <p>The wiki started as a horror/creepypasta site so the majority of the older content is focused around that, but since then we've expanded our horizons and nowadays you can find any type of writing you'd want from novella-length adventures to one-line jokes.</p> </blockquote> <p>Thank you. THANK GOD for the precision. I'm not bothering others that much with that but most things that pissed me off in the past when I was in the Wiki came from people who acted all condescending/melodramatic because the Wiki wasn't just an horror site anymore. So, I'm very happy you put that.</p> <blockquote> <p>telling people &quot;your article sucks balls&quot; without explaining why it sucks balls, telling people &quot;your article sucks balls&quot; <em>in general</em> because I'm sure there's better ways you can phrase that</p> </blockquote> <p>Nothing to say about that, I just think it's funny.</p> 
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				<title>Re: [Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2022 09:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>OptimisticLucio</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>3199573</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Also since I forgot to say it on the main post: Thanks a <em>lot</em> for <span class="printuser avatarhover"><a href="http://www.wikidot.com/user:info/sketchyth0ughts" ><img class="small" src="https://www.wikidot.com/avatar.php?userid=3797765&amp;amp;size=small&amp;amp;timestamp=1696952961" alt="SketchyTh0ughts" style="background-image:url(https://www.wikidot.com/userkarma.php?u=3797765)" /></a><a href="http://www.wikidot.com/user:info/sketchyth0ughts" >SketchyTh0ughts</a></span> for writing the Writing Guide and <span class="printuser avatarhover"><a href="http://www.wikidot.com/user:info/jerden" ><img class="small" src="https://www.wikidot.com/avatar.php?userid=1637608&amp;amp;size=small&amp;amp;timestamp=1696952961" alt="Jerden" style="background-image:url(https://www.wikidot.com/userkarma.php?u=1637608)" /></a><a href="http://www.wikidot.com/user:info/jerden" >Jerden</a></span> for a <em>lot</em> of last minute editing and fixing, which ended up rewriting like half of the guides.</p> <p>I'd mention everyone who had a hand with this guide, but.. I'd be mentioning half of staff here along with some people who aren't even on staff anymore. Yes this has taken a while</p> 
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				<title>[Discussion] The Guide for Newcomers Rewrite</title>
				<link>http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-14579906/discussion-the-guide-for-newcomers-rewrite#post-5242701</link>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2022 09:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>OptimisticLucio</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>3199573</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <h2><span><a href="https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/forum/t-14579909/discussion-the-guide-for-newcomers-rewrite">Mainsite Mirror</a></span></h2> <hr /> <p>Heya everyone, after about a year and a few months of writing, rewriting, scrapping, and screaming at people, we're finally proud to present the belated <strong>Guide for Newbies Rewrite.</strong></p> <h3><span>Why a rewrite?</span></h3> <p>The current newbie guide is kind of a mess. It misses a lot of information new users would need (such as what to read, where to start, etc), gives them way too much info than most would actually want (half of it is devoted to writing processes, which most users will not use), and is kind of condescending to the reader. Reorganizing the guide so it's easier on the reader, and rewording it so it's less intimidating to the new user, could help new users feel welcome to join the site and help staff not have to answer the same question twenty times in #site17.</p> <h3><span>What does this rewrite offer over the previous guide?</span></h3> <ul> <li><strong>The guide has been split in four.</strong> Many of the issues of the previous guide came because it tried to put one guide for <em>everyone</em> - how to join, how to write, how to everything in one big Frankenstein's monster. This guide has been split into four relatively shorter guides: The Guide for Newcomers, Readers, Joining, and Writing. This split will hopefully make people more interested in reading said guides (since they can read specifically the info that's relevant to <em>them</em>) while also allowing us to fit more information in.</li> <li><strong>The guides are now more welcoming as opposed to many other guides onsite that are cold and clinical.</strong> A lot of onsite guides are precise, cold, and at some points even somewhat condescending, treating the reader as someone who must fit in or leave rather than someone we <em>want</em> to make part of our site. This guide aims to have generally more relaxed wording and structure, so that people don't feel like even the walls want to kick them out.</li> <li><strong>Each guide has a different focus.</strong> Guide for Newcomers is basic info you need to use the site and understand it, such as &quot;There is no Canon&quot;, what an SCP even <em>is</em>, how to contact AHT, etc.. Guide for Readers is a guide on how to start reading and find new reading material on the site. Guide for Joining is.. well, how to make an account and join the site. Guide for Writing is a general guide on the fundamentals of posting <em>anything</em>, while giving very minimal and general advice when it comes to any specific topic.</li> <li><strong>The guides are each half the length of the current newbie guide.</strong> Even though, as a whole, they're <em>longer</em> than the current guide for newbies, each one is shorter and easier to digest which could help people get through them.</li> </ul> <h3><span>Alright, where's the link?</span></h3> <p><a href="http://mast-team.wikidot.com/guide-for-newcomers">Here's a direct link to the Guide for Newcomers</a>, with the other three guides linked at the bottom. I'd really appreciate if you could comment on all four guides if doing so, but if not, even just commenting on one or two will help a lot.</p> <p>Also just as a preemptive - if this does make it to the mainsite, the current Guide for Joining will be archived instead of edited over, due to how wildly different the format is.</p> <p><iframe src="https://home.helenbot.com/tools/timer.html?time=1648977973810&amp;type=This%20timer%20expires%20in" align="" frameborder="" height="" scrolling="" width="" class="" style="width: 500px; height: 250px; border: 0;"></iframe></p> <p>This discussion will be up for a week and is open to all staff and all site members.</p> 
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