20:17:20: <Anaxagoras> thefran: What's the problem with Barathrum?
20:17:54: <thefran> He is anti-fun, basically.
20:18:02: <Annalea> he works around stunlock
20:18:14: <Annalea> pray to the RNG gods enough and your enemy literally cannot fight back
20:18:29: <Annalea> but here's my question
20:18:32: <Annalea> who's worse
20:18:39: <Annalea> SB, riki, or sappers?
20:18:46: <thefran> SB
20:18:55: <thefran> The other two are useless against good players.
20:19:03: <Anaxagoras> Okay, so basically you sometimes just get to where there's no counterplay and you just die slowly because you're unlucky?
20:19:22: <thefran> He has two guaranteed stuns
20:19:27: <thefran> both go through anything
20:19:50: <thefran> and it is not possible to interrupt his charge on most heroes
20:20:00: <thefran> Basically he's the quintessential cheese hero.
20:20:15: <thefran> cheese here refers to a strategy that is very easy to execute and very hard to counter
20:20:32: <patrickthe8> Dota2 discussion?
20:20:33: <patrickthe8> :D
20:20:41: <patrickthe8> Too bad I suck.
20:20:48: <thefran> so does everyone else
20:21:01: <thefran> and I got accepted into a team that plays eizo cups and shit
20:21:04: <patrickthe8> lol
20:21:25: <patrickthe8> No one is good at strategy games.
20:21:31: <Annalea> >.>
20:21:32: <Annalea> wut
20:22:28: <thefran> wtf is a sidecar
20:22:37: <Anaxagoras> I know what you mean by cheese.
20:22:42: <Anborough> Dota falls under arena doesn't it
20:22:48: <patrickthe8> MOBA
20:22:48: <Anborough> not strategy
20:22:56: <patrickthe8> Well, sort of.
20:23:04: <thefran> dota is an isometric wizard'em up
20:23:10: <Anborough> !y Dota 2 Warlock voice
20:23:11: <Nala> Anborough: Dota 2 Sounds - Warlock Voice by TheRomagia (13 m 37 s) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbXXIMjwbYs - published Fri Sep 23, 2011 - 4.20/5.00 (5.0, +4/-1), 2,089 views
20:23:20: <patrickthe8> It‘s not a RTS, but I`s still say it requires strategy.
20:23:24: <Anborough> does anyone recognize this voice.
20:23:39: <thefran> yeah, I do
20:23:46: <thefran> it’s Beastmaster
20:23:54: <patrickthe8> Ohhhhhhh
20:24:04: <Anborough> not sure who that is
20:24:10: <Anborough> anyone else he sound like?
20:24:14: <patrickthe8> My favorite hero is Storm Spirit >:3
20:24:18: <Annalea> >.>
20:24:20: <Annalea> I play LoL
20:24:22: <Annalea> soooo umm
20:24:26: <thefran> BURN THE HERETIC
20:24:28: <patrickthe8> I play LoL too
20:24:30: <Anborough> I play LoL too
20:24:33: <Annalea> yeah i'm the casual
20:24:34: <Annalea> so what
20:24:36: <Anborough> I don't play Dota 2
20:24:41: <Anborough> but this voice
20:24:41: <Annalea> i don't think denying creeps is fun or interesting
20:24:44: <Annalea> it's just bullshit
20:24:52: <thefran> but so is lane freezing
20:24:55: <Annalea> and LoL is the least elitist out of a fundamentally elitist game genre
20:24:55: <picone> Dota has more range in heroes than lol, too
20:25:08: <patrickthe8> Anborough: I like how we said exactly the same thing, no period same caps.
20:25:11: <thefran> removing denying from the game made laning phase in league absolutely awful
20:25:14: <thefran> you can't like
20:25:18: <thefran> DO anything
20:25:22: <picone> it's not just thte denial mechanic or the lane equilibrium
20:25:30: <Anborough> !y Alexander Brennenburg voice
20:25:31: <Nala> Anborough: Amnesia: Daniel's Madness by Neale Rooney (4 m 48 s) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mol1BMoKe14 - published Sun May 22, 2011 - 4.96/5.00 (247.0, +245/-2), 20,061 views
20:25:38: <Anborough> dangit.
20:25:48: <Anborough> the warlock is played by Alexander of Brennenburg
20:26:10: <thefran> the horror game?
20:26:14: <Annalea> define 'do anything'
20:26:16: <Anborough> yes
20:26:25: <Annalea> :P
20:26:36: <patrickthe8> Well, you are farming creeps and harassing enemy champs…
20:26:37: <Annalea> because i find the first 3 levels perfectly interesting
20:26:50: <thefran> you watch creeps hit each other and occasionally hit them yourself and that's all you do in the lane in league
20:26:56: <thefran> you can't actually control it
20:27:05: <Annalea> what, you never harass the other team?
20:27:13: <patrickthe8> thefran: You also harass
20:27:15: <thefran> that's not technically part of laning
20:27:26: <Annalea> it's the most important part of laning
20:27:27: <Annalea> … why not?
20:27:28: <patrickthe8> I like both the games, honestly.
20:27:30: <Annalea> conversely
20:27:32: <picone> harassing in lol is weird too because you don't have to control creep aggro
20:27:37: <Annalea> i find sitting back and denying to be completely contrived and boring
20:27:42: <Annalea> umm what?
20:27:49: <Annalea> you hit an enemy champion all their creepst urn on you
20:27:50: <thefran> have you actually played dota correctly
20:28:04: <thefran> if you think sitting back and denying is all you do
20:28:05: <Annalea> i played dota for years
20:28:11: <thefran> then you're awful at it?
20:28:22: <picone> Annalea: LOL creeps do less than half the damage creeps do in DOTA
20:28:23: Annalea shrugs
20:28:27: <patrickthe8> Aanalea: Dota1?
20:28:29: <picone> And lane equilibrium doesn't exist so accidentally pushing isn't a problem
20:28:31: <Annalea> allstars.
20:28:32: <Annalea> the wc3 mod
20:28:33: <thefran> single pulling, stacking and doublepulling for example
20:28:34: <patrickthe8> I spelled the name wrong -_-
20:28:36: <Annalea> and Tides of Blood before that
20:28:45: <thefran> any sort of advanced creep equilibrium control
20:28:59: <thefran> hell you can't even abuse creep turning speed and aggro cycle
20:29:04: <thefran> you just pve
20:29:08: <Annalea> >_>
20:29:14: <Annalea> See
20:29:18: <Annalea> As a game designer
20:29:24: <Annalea> That doesn't sound like good mechanics at work
20:29:29: <Annalea> That just sounds like contrived fluff
20:29:34: <Annalea> That overcomplicates the basic game
20:29:36: <patrickthe8> I can tell I suck because I have absolutely no idea how to abuse creep turning speed, or what aggro is
20:29:36: <Annalea> But that's just me
20:29:39: <thefran> you know what doesn't sound like good mechanics at work?
20:29:40: <picone> some of it is accidental fluff
20:29:47: <thefran> "unfun"
20:29:48: <thefran> "toxic"
20:29:55: <thefran> "burden of knowledge"
20:29:59: <Annalea> Ummmm
20:30:06: <Annalea> Is that directed at LoL somehow?
20:30:09: <Annalea> I'm not following you
20:30:12: <thefran> Of course yes
20:30:25: <thefran> Those mechanics are not obvious, but not forced by the game designer.
20:30:34: <thefran> It is an example of emergent gameplay.
20:30:35: <patrickthe8> I prefer DOTA‘s community though. By a lot.
20:31:00: <picone> TBH I’m not sure I like the whole last-hitting and denying mechanic in general, because it does feel a lot like an arbitrary timing mechanic stuck on top of a game that really isn't about that, even though it wasn't exactly intended per se (just a consequence of how wc3 worked)
20:31:02: <thefran> If you intentionally make some of those things impossible while keeping the core game the same
20:31:16: <picone> But I think lane equilibrium is an interesting mechanic
20:31:16: <Annalea> You're waxing poetic
20:31:31: <Annalea> What parts of LoL are "unfun", "toxi", or constitute excessive "burden of knowledge"
20:31:42: <thefran> apparently the game becomes much more easy and dumb, instead of skill based.
20:31:43: <Annalea> and how does Dota2 address it in such a way that they are not in the same boat?
20:31:49: <thefran> No parts. Those terms are not actually real.
20:31:54: <thefran> They are buzzwords.
20:31:59: <Annalea> So… what are you saying, then? :20:32:00: <patrickthe8> You‘ve just walked in on the Battle of the MOBAs.
20:32:22: <thefran> That skill ceiling isn’t just something you discard
20:32:23: <consuelo> oh man thank goodness, the "being screamed at by 13 year olds with poor english" genre of video games is my favorite
20:32:25: <picone> Thefran: burden of knowledge is a thing.
20:32:32: <thefran> so that you can get more people to sell skins to
20:32:32: <patrickthe8> thefran: What are you saying?
20:32:39: <thefran> How is burden of knowledge a thing.
20:32:39: <patrickthe8> OHHH
20:32:41: <thefran> Please explain.
20:32:42: <patrickthe8> That.
20:32:46: <Annalea> Well, I already admitted that I'm a more casual player and I prefer LoL
20:32:46: <thefran> I'm still not sold on this.
20:32:50: <picone> A lot of dota mechanics aren't discoverable, at all, and that's a problem
20:33:04: <Annalea> And objectively speaking
20:33:05: <Annalea> When you focus on the vaunted "skill ceiling"
20:33:11: <Annalea> All you do is exclude potential players.
20:33:13: <Annalea> So.. sure.
20:33:24: <thefran> Maybe some potential players must be excluded.
20:33:26: <Annalea> I get that you want a more challenging game.
20:33:26: <hippogriff> So while everyone's talking about MOBAs.. anyone interested in TES:O?
20:33:26: <Annalea> But that's not a self-sustaining cycle for a game.
20:33:31: <picone> Hippogriff: No.
20:33:33: <Annalea> And thus my other point is reinforced.
20:33:38: <thefran> yes that's why dota is dead and no one plays it right
20:33:40: <picone> Bethseda hasn't done anything of note since Morrowind
20:33:43: <Annalea> LoL is the least elitist and xenophobic of the genre
20:33:45: <Annalea> And I love it for that.
20:33:49: <thefran> Lol?
20:33:50: <thefran> What?
20:33:52: <thefran> What/
20:34:10: <thefran> Are you aware that they started their entire marketing campaign with anti-dota xenophoby?
20:34:28: <thefran> Hell, they still do that stuff.
20:34:38: <patrickthe8> Not excited for the Elder Scrolls Online. I never was a MMORPG fan. But at least there won‘t be microtransaction(I think).
20:34:39: <patrickthe8> *microtransactions
20:34:41: <PoonDragoon> patrickthe8: oh, there will be
20:34:47: <PoonDragoon> there /will/ be
20:34:49: <thefran> > elder scrolls online
20:34:53: <PoonDragoon> it’s the new winning model
20:34:53: <picone> Incoming horse armour
20:34:57: <thefran> Transcription errors eh
20:35:01: <patrickthe8> I heard it was going subscription
20:35:04: <Annalea> I wasn't aware, no. But I've never bought into a game based on their marketing.
20:35:07: <thefran> I still say they should have gone balls in
20:35:15: <Annalea> I buy into games based on how my friends enjoy them and how I enjoy them.
20:35:16: <thefran> Name it skyrim online
20:35:17: <thefran> fuck it
20:35:22: <patrickthe8> So that there would /not/ be microtransactions.
20:35:25: <thefran> if you shit on the lore might as well dump the whole thing
20:35:39: <Annalea> And I would love to see some examples illustrating what you're saying
20:35:46: <thefran> there are millions of twelve year olds waiting for skyrim 2
20:35:48: <Annalea> 'cause I've never seen any "anti-dota" ads from LoL
20:35:58: <thefran> You don't know the whole pendragon thing right?
20:36:15: <Annalea> Enlighten me.
20:36:33: <thefran> Basically Pendragon, the ex admin of dota allstars
20:36:41: <thefran> one of the best videogame communities on the internet
20:36:47: <picone> Annalea: my preference for dota over lol is almost certainly based on which one I played first, but my rationalisation is that there seems to be substantially more variety in heroes in dota. My experience of LOL is that they essentially have a small set of abilities they mix and match over heroes (short targeted stun, line-based damaging skillshot, etc.).
20:36:53: <thefran> deleted the whole thing replacing it with an ad shitting on dota
20:37:06: <picone> whereas dota heroes tend to be more unique, in my experience.
20:37:22: <thefran> and then he acts like nothing happened
20:37:24: <picone> lends more depth, while admittedly forcing you to learn a lot more.
20:37:38: <ProcyonLotor> so, one dude in an internet catfight
20:37:38: <thefran> tencent spreads rumors in SEA that dota2 costs 100 bucks to play
20:38:07: <thefran> game designers on league forums use dota heroes as example of badly done design
20:38:17: <hippogriff> One of these days, an scp feeding off of internet arguments is going to be discovered.
20:38:21: <picone> :P
20:38:35: <Annalea> Okay… now how does this affect me, as a casual player?
20:38:40: <Annalea> I'm not involved in any of the drama on either side.
20:38:44: <hippogriff> It's a virtually infinite power source.
20:38:55: <ProcyonLotor> or, really anybody who has an actual life
20:38:55: <thefran> What, like Berg Katze?
20:39:15: <thefran> What do you mean how it affects you
20:39:17: <ProcyonLotor> I don't play either, but that's a silly argument fran
20:39:31: <thefran> You made a claim.
20:39:35: <thefran> I made a rebuttal.
20:39:49: <thefran> Also the league community is absolutely AWFUL.
20:39:56: <thefran> I know this, I've played it since closed beta.
20:39:56: <HexiHamaski> Gta5 can't 1080p on console once again pc gaming master race
20:40:00: <Annalea> I made a claim that the community of LoL is less elitist and xenophobic than that of other MOBA-style games.
20:40:02: <ProcyonLotor> your rebuttal focused on the lunatic-fringe hardcore players that most people conciously avoid
20:40:06: <thefran> But that is bullshit.
20:40:13: <Annalea> Who hold "skill ceiling" above all else
20:40:13: <Annalea> In part, no offense, due to people like you.
20:40:18: <Annalea> And tell the casuals, "tough shit"
20:40:27: <Annalea> You want to play that way, I applaud you
20:40:29: <Annalea> but I sure don't
20:40:36: <Annalea> And playing alongside you makes the game less enjoyable for me
20:40:40: <ProcyonLotor> Hexihamaski: well, as far as we know gta 5 can't anything on the pc considering no port has been announced
20:40:44: <thefran> Excuse me but i didn't quote fringe players
20:40:54: <thefran> I quoted the actual developers of the game.
20:41:06: <Annalea> … okay?
20:41:08: <Anborough> League of Legends brings out the absolute worst in people.
20:41:09: <ProcyonLotor> that's even worse of an argument
20:41:13: <thefran> Actually annalea why would I NOT hold skill ceiling above all else?
20:41:21: <thefran> in a skill based game?
20:41:21: <Annalea> Because I play to have fun rather than win?
20:41:22: <ProcyonLotor> of fucking course the developers are going to shit on their competition
20:41:22: <hippogriff> Infinite power source.
20:41:29: <thefran> Oh look
20:41:32: <thefran> this argument
20:41:33: <patrickthe8> Sooooooooo
20:41:33: <ProcyonLotor> there's only a limited amount of money people are going to spend on online games
20:41:38: <Annalea> I'm not arguing…
20:41:40: <patrickthe8> Anyone play SC2?
20:41:42: <patrickthe8> :3
20:41:46: <Annalea> I'm saying I prefer LoL for the casual gameplay.
20:41:47: <picone> I played a bit
20:41:52: <thefran> http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.learntocounter.com%2Fi-play-for-fun-the-four-dumbest-words-in-video-games%2F&ei=h744UoPPHKKi4gSetoDgBg&usg=AFQjCNHqdXeBpCKLePWS2A5Bzg0LGLrTBQ&bvm=bv.52164340,d.bGE
20:41:53: <picone> but I'm not very good at it
20:41:53: <thefran> wait
20:41:56: <Annalea> I didn't say it was better, just that I've had better experiences with it.
20:42:02: <Anborough> let's try to keep the conversation calm
20:42:04: <Annalea> And that I enjoy it more, and most of my friends play it.
20:42:07: <thefran> http://www.learntocounter.com/i-play-for-fun-the-four-dumbest-words-in-video-games/
20:42:07: <picone> Only ever got up to gold, and then stopped for a while, and now I can't play for shit
20:42:11: <thefran> Yeah this is better.
20:42:13: <Annalea> Arguing would imply that I'm trying to change your mind.
20:42:17: <thefran> Read the article.
20:42:19: <ProcyonLotor> thefran: that is the dumbest fucking thing I have ever read
20:42:22: <patrickthe8> picone: As addicted as I am, I can‘t beat easy bots.
20:42:38: <ProcyonLotor> I play video games because I have a stressful everyday life
20:42:42: <Annalea> And now you’ve stooped to ad hominem
20:42:43: <patrickthe8> ProcyonLotor: I agree. I believe that it is possible to play for fun.
20:42:43: <snakeoilsage> thefran Just reading the title of that article gave me cancer.
20:42:45: <Smapti> Thefran, that's basically just "STOP HAVING FUN YOU GUYS" in essay format.
20:42:46: <ProcyonLotor> I play them, because they help me relax
20:42:47: <Annalea> So, I shall gracefully bow out.
20:42:51: <thefran> yes because Valve shits on their competition in ways such as
20:42:52: <ProcyonLotor> I play them for fun
20:42:56: <picone> ah, the dreaded ten-minute two-zergling push
20:43:02: <picone> damned easy bots. :P
20:43:08: <patrickthe8> Yesp
20:43:08: <patrickthe8> :P
20:43:19: <thefran> yeah nah read the article instead of bashing the title
20:43:26: <hippogriff> Titanfall looks to be pretty fun, if the hype proves true.
20:43:29: <patrickthe8> I ment to put "yep", but you know, "yesp" has a nice ring to it.
20:43:33: <Annalea> >_>
20:43:35: <hippogriff> Though it won't.
20:43:38: Annalea coughs
20:43:44: <picone> SC, not SC2, but interesting: http://overmind.cs.berkeley.edu/
20:43:45: <Annalea> Ops?
20:43:45: <HexiHamaski> I prefer dota2 not because the community is any better but because my first moba was dota
20:43:46: patrickthe8 hacks
20:43:51: <ProcyonLotor> thefran: "oh I should be embarrased for not devoting my entire life into a game"
20:43:51: <Soulless> Annalea: wasusp
20:43:53: <Tuomey> Guys
20:44:01: <thefran> Read the article too.
20:44:02: <Annalea> The conversation in here is getting a bit heated.
20:44:05: <Tuomey> Moving on from the video game argument
20:44:13: <Annalea> And I swear to God it's not my fault
20:44:19: <Soulless> Cool beans
20:44:19: <Tuomey> Op order: Shut up about it
20:44:23: <Tuomey> Annalea: I saw
20:44:29: <Soulless> Can we change the topic now, I'm with Tuomey here
20:44:30: <Tuomey> You're good
20:45:08: <Joinone> Now i fear Valve. so much PC stuff live and die depending on steam
20:45:39: <patrickthe8> I like PC games and all, but let‘s talk about something else.
20:45:42: <thefran> as i understand valve is going to make steam
20:45:44: <thefran> if not opensource
20:45:48: <Smapti> Joinone, most of your Steam games will still be playable if/when Steam ever ceases to exist.
20:45:51: <thefran> then at least free
20:46:06: <HexiHamaski> I have a dream,i dream of a world where people play the games they like and worship the gods they want and no one hates them for it
20:46:09: <thefran> the idea is that anyone can open a shop and valve’s steam as we have it is just one of many
20:46:15: <hippogriff> Steam Share is a thing, apparently.
20:46:20: <thefran> because, honestly
20:46:22: <patrickthe8> Hexihamaski: Amen.
20:46:38: <thefran> amazon, gmg and stuff are right now just places to buy steam keys
20:46:43: <Joinone> because many small time developers are depending on steam approval to live
20:46:46: <hippogriff> Being able to play games in your friend's library.. seems too good to be true.
20:46:57: <thefran> I don't see how steam share is useful.
20:47:11: <thefran> Mostly because I don't have any friends
20:47:21: <ProcyonLotor> well, that's not the systems fault
20:47:35: <picone> Hexihamaski: The god you worship is very much a thing potentially deserving criticism. The god you worship strongly influences your actions, so if they command, for ex., murder, people other than you have a legitimate right to be a bit uneasy about it.
20:47:39: <thefran> yeah, that I blame the jews for
20:47:56: <Smapti> "Friends? I have no friends! Friends take time and time is money and money pays for things, like a manicure or a boiled egg. Get me one of each! But not boiled, poached. Ah, what the hell, it's Friday, make it scrambled. I wish I had a brother. Not so much though, we'd just fight."
20:47:58: <ProcyonLotor> yeah
20:48:00: <ProcyonLotor> don't say that
20:48:03: <HexiHamaski> Games gods, take out the contex and the arguments are the same
20:48:25: <hippogriff> The Foundation does.. kinda stand for "not worshiping what you want"
20:48:28: <thefran> i'm allowed to make this joke seeing as I am one ethnically.
20:48:50: <ProcyonLotor> it was less I'm offended and more that it usually causes thing to degenerate into a shit storm
20:49:00: <ProcyonLotor> and I also have no authority over what you're allowed to say
20:50:07: <HexiHamaski> Picone the deities themselves rarely incite violence it's the believers that can't respect other religions that causes violence
20:50:10: <Tuomey> whois thefran
20:50:19: <ProcyonLotor> *mountain
20:50:27: <Tuomey> hurf
20:50:56: <thefran> is there a way to view a skip's title without having to go back to the list of skips
20:51:06: <picone> Hexihamaski: Well of course the eities don't incite violence, they don't exist (or at the very least, don't often get out). Various Holy Teachings, on the other hand, absolutely teach violence against designated outgroups or underclasses.
20:51:08: <thefran> and ctrl-fing its number
20:51:13: <Tuomey> SCP-173
20:51:15: <Nala> Tuomey: The Sculpture - The Original (rating: +824, 20 revisions) - http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-173
20:51:17: <Tuomey> Like that
20:51:20: <Annalea> You can use the chatbot.
20:51:25: <Annalea> She can do lookups, amongst other things
20:51:26: <Tuomey> but if you're gonna do a bunch, PM the bot
20:51:28: <ProcyonLotor> but pm the bot if you're gonna do it a bunch
20:51:30: <ProcyonLotor> ninja'd
20:51:38: <thefran> why not from the actual site
20:51:41: <picone> It's more a question of whether the believer is a sufficiently ethical person that they disregard the crazy and keep the generic ethical messages
20:51:49: <Tuomey> Well
20:51:55: <thefran> are you discussing religion in general
20:51:59: <thefran> or religion based skips
20:52:07: <picone> And, fortunately, most people are basically ethical so people don't go around stoning people for picking up sticks on the sabbath
20:52:13: <picone> thefran: in general
20:52:30: <Annalea> Because the SCP Wiki is written on a platform never designed to do what it's used for.
20:52:30: <thefran> in this moment i am euphoric
20:52:39: <Annalea> And doesn't support things such as page metadata in any useful form.
20:52:58: <picone> But I reserve the right to criticise religious teachings that are fundamentally unethical, even if they're not followed through by most of the believers of that religion.
20:53:08: <Smapti> And we know this because it last did it about 300 years ago.
20:53:32: <thefran> Are you referring to the teachings that are core to the belief system in question?
20:53:35: <thefran> Or just anything?
20:53:55: <Djoric> picone, thefran, you guys should totally check out the ETDP canon. Just sayin'
20:54:01: <thefran> etdp?
20:54:02: <HexiHamaski> The majority of the old testament is a good example
20:54:13: <thefran> The old testament is old for a reason.
20:54:17: <Djoric> Yes
20:54:18: <Djoric> Go read it
20:54:21: <Djoric> 's good
20:54:22: <ProcyonLotor> that reason being
20:54:22: <Xiao> > But I reserve the right to criticise religious teachings that are fundamentally unethical, even if they're not followed through by most of the believers of that religion.
20:54:24: <thefran> What is it
20:54:24: <ProcyonLotor> it is older than the new one
20:54:30: <Xiao> This isn't going to be the best place to do that.
20:54:39: <ProcyonLotor> yeah
20:54:40: <thefran> That reason being it's not very culturally relevant.
20:54:48: <picone> (also there's the argument that the majority of people in any given religious tradition that aren't crazy provide a measure of cover to the people that are. Catholic bishops claiming that homosexuality is sinful, for example, are granted some legitimacy by catholic believers)
20:54:54: <hippogriff> Yellowstone worries me. Volcanos shouldn't be that big.
20:54:57: <picone> Xiao: I didn't intend to do it /here/, I'm talking generalities.
20:55:03: <ProcyonLotor> I'm not a religious person, but the old testament is a work of immense literary value
20:55:08: <thefran> New testament finds a lot of the basic teachings no longer ethically correct
20:55:09: <picone> Oh absolutely.
20:55:12: Annalea coughs
20:55:13: <thefran> and cultural teachings outdated
20:55:16: <thefran> and that was 2k years ago
20:55:20: <Tuomey> Guys
20:55:32: <Tuomey> You may not be "intending" to do it here
20:55:37: <Tuomey> but you kind of are doing it
20:55:50: <picone> I'll drop the topic. Sorry.
20:55:50: <Xiao> Thank you.
20:55:53: <thefran> Whenever people cite the old testament near me as an end-all, I tip my fedora and inquire whether they have a shovel
20:56:03: <thefran> ok sorry dropping
20:56:13: <ProcyonLotor> of course you have a fedora
20:56:16: <Annalea> Chat sure is volatile today.
20:56:16: <Annalea> Must be the weather.
20:56:30: <Smapti> I own several fedoras. And for the record, I've been wearing fedoras since BEFORE it was cool to hate fedoras.
20:56:36: <ProcyonLotor> "19's fussy, means rain's coming"
20:56:38: <thefran> I actually had a brief period in my life when I considered getting a fedora.
20:56:47: <Xiao> I'm looking at getting a new fedora soon.
20:56:54: <Xiao> I want it to be made from the same material as my shop coat.
20:57:01: <thefran> Like less than a minute
20:57:04: <Silber> Smapti: you wear fedoras, then everyone starts hating fedoras, and you don't see any correlation there?
20:57:10: <Tuomey> I have a fedora, I was kind of annoyed when it became an asshole thing
20:57:16: <ProcyonLotor> smapti: I'm not arguing all fedora owners are terrible, and the significant majority probably aren't. but there's a high percentage of terrible people who also wear fedoras
20:57:25: <hippogriff> Sometimes I wish I had a fedora so I could achieve my final form. But it's an irreversible change.
20:57:26: <thefran> I hate the shit out of the entirety of the internet for this whole
20:57:33: <thefran> le neckbeard fedora virgin meme thing
20:58:06: <thefran> Pretty much any argument instantly degrades into whoever calls the opponent a neckbeard instantly wins
20:58:21: <hippogriff> Engineer's caps are nice though. I wear mine when it's cold out.
20:58:22: <thefran> it is an argument that is impossible to counter
20:58:27: <thefran> you don't argue you lose
20:58:33: <Xiao> Hippogriff, depends.
20:58:37: <Xiao> Some people cannot wear them.
20:58:40: <thefran> you argue = you got defensive = you lose
20:58:42: <thefran> bs
20:58:48: <DrYucatan> My physician is Doctor Fedora B. Neckbeard
20:58:50: <Xiao> Not without being labeled a disgrace to fashion and to humanity.
20:59:03: <Smapti> I only wear my fedoras when it's rainy. Or when it's sunny and hot and I expect to be outside for an extended period of time.
20:59:03: <DrYucatan> He recommends I own 18 fedoras and watch My Little Pony for at least 4 hours a day
20:59:05: <ProcyonLotor> you seem not to understand the rules of arguing
20:59:12: <DrYucatan> And drink copious amounts of Mountain Dew
20:59:13: <hippogriff> Same goes for fedoras. But more people can wear caps than fedoras.
20:59:32: Xiao wears his fedora to semiformal events.
20:59:35: <thefran> actually i seem to be the only one to understand how arguments work
20:59:39: <Annalea> >.>
20:59:41: <JConwell> Smapti: Do you speak like a hard boiled private investigator when you wear your fedoras? :-|
20:59:41: <ProcyonLotor> a large enough breach in the ethos of the speaker is an acceptable method of winning an argument
20:59:42: <thefran> but the point shifted from
20:59:44: <Smapti> I don't have a beard, neck or otherwise. I do have a mustache.
20:59:45: <TheRaven> Fedoras are for hipster douches
20:59:45: Xiao also wears a "work" fedora to the shop.
20:59:46: <Annalea> thefran: Maybe it's just me, but you seem really angry.
20:59:50: <thefran> proving your viewpoint is true
20:59:54: <thefran> to
21:00:03: <Annalea> Are you perchance upset about something that you care to talk about? Or is this business as usual for you?
21:00:04: <thefran> proving your opponent is a loser and has no life
21:00:04: <Xiao> TheRaven, I'm not a hipster douche :O
21:00:05: <Smapti> TheRaven, I was a hipster before being a hipster was cool.
21:00:23: <picone> thefran: I don't think rhetoric is a recent invention
21:00:25: <Tuomey> TheRaven, generic vaguely outraged statement about generalisations
21:00:27: <ProcyonLotor> yeah
21:00:29: <thefran> I am really angry about this, yes
21:00:37: <ProcyonLotor> that's been a method of rhetoric since classical Greece
21:00:43: <thefran> because i see no way as to how to prevent this cancerous way of discussion from spreading
21:00:50: <TheRaven> …
21:00:57: <ProcyonLotor> because it's not cancerous to anybody but you
21:01:05: <thefran> how is it not
21:01:12: <DrYucatan> Because it's just a discussion
21:01:16: <thefran> how is calling your opponent a loser constructive
21:01:16: <ProcyonLotor> but one of the pillars upon which rhetoric is founded
21:01:16: <DrYucatan> It's just words
21:01:16: <hippogriff> The Greeks worshiped Zeus before he sold out to the Romans.
21:01:16: <TheRaven> thefran: you need to chill your shit out.
21:01:37: <hippogriff> And they wore togas before it was cool.
21:01:44: <Xiao> thefran, ease off a bit, please.
21:01:52: <Xiao> This is a general discussion, not a ranting blog.
21:02:10: <thefran> i express disagreement, it's called arguing
21:02:25: <Xiao> I said, ease off.
21:02:29: <ghostchibi> DrYucatan: you're saying "It's just words" and you're in the chat for a writing site
21:02:48: <DrYucatan> ghostchibi: Yes
21:02:48: <thefran> how is it a writing site, scps are real
21:02:56: <Xiao> :/
21:02:58: <ghostchibi> …
21:03:02: <JConwell> …
21:03:05: ghostchibi LOUD SQUINTING
21:03:05: <ProcyonLotor> I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt
thefran was kicked by Xiao (Comes back in 10 minutes.)
21:03:08: <ProcyonLotor> and say he was joking
21:03:14: <Anborough> sigh
21:03:16: <ProcyonLotor> but yeah
21:03:27: <Tuomey> Even if he was, he did that while an op was talking to him all op-style
21:03:28: <Xiao> I totally fucked up that kickline.
21:04:22: Annalea coughs
21:04:27: <Annalea> I would just like to mention for the record
21:04:40: <Annalea> That I was having a civil discussion on my side
21:04:46: <Xiao> Annalea, you were.
21:04:48: <Annalea> And he tried to get all alpha-male on me
21:04:53: <Xiao> Otherwise, I would've booted you as well.
21:04:56: <Annalea> Which was disconcerting
21:04:57: <Xiao> Anyways, to picone
21:05:01: <Annalea> I meant, prior to all this
21:05:02: <Annalea> but, uhh
21:05:03: <Annalea> yeah
21:05:04: <ProcyonLotor> I normally don't get wound up like that, but he really annoyed me
21:05:06: Annalea slinks away
21:05:11: <Tuomey> Annalea: I saw, you're good
21:05:24: <Xiao> picone, can you summarize your idea?
21:05:28: <Tuomey> Dude was being quite argumentative
21:05:30: <Tuomey> Moving on
(account deleted) 17 Sep 2013 21:07
