Here's the pastebin logs from staff chat:
[2012-08-02 14:36:38] <thedeadlymoose> [14:14] bright The money is gonna be an issue > This is my personal least favorite topic, but honestly it might well be the most important one. It's the one thing we HAVE to have prepared for when the site move hits. So… time for an 05 thread? More discussion here?
[2012-08-02 14:37:11] <DrMann> Mmm. Yes.
[2012-08-02 14:37:13] <thedeadlymoose> I mean look how bright just brought it up and we totally let it slide for talking about the much easier ban topic. XD
[2012-08-02 14:37:15] <DrMann> I need to know what we need.
[2012-08-02 14:37:43] <Sorts> I would be happy to pony up some of my hard earned pennies
[2012-08-02 14:38:31] <bright> I still think making a Site Store, with all proceeds going to the site, would be a good idea.
[2012-08-02 14:38:59] <thedeadlymoose> I agree with this 100% albeit with a preeeetty low understanding of what all would have to go into that
[2012-08-02 14:39:08] <DrMann> Right. We still need to hash out how taxes and fees will be handled.
[2012-08-02 14:39:25] <thedeadlymoose> btw, Aelanna/Mackenzie has experience with this donation issue from other sites, I say we pick her brain on this as well if possible
[2012-08-02 14:39:33] <Bouncl> Mack made a post
[2012-08-02 14:39:35] <Bouncl> let me find it
[2012-08-02 14:39:37] <Sorts> I would not mind seeing a site store for stuff like cool ass shirts and posters
[2012-08-02 14:39:39] <DrMann> Righto.
[2012-08-02 14:39:41] <DrMann> Yeah.
[2012-08-02 14:39:43] <thedeadlymoose> Oh did she? I am still catching up on 05
[2012-08-02 14:39:46] <DrMann> Kens's minimalist posters, for example.
[2012-08-02 14:39:49] <EchoFourDelta> As it stands, myself, murphy_slaw, Aelanna, and… I believe another individual or so are prepared to front the server rent cost until self-sustainability becomes feasible.
[2012-08-02 14:39:58] <Bouncl> http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-541741#post-1526245
[2012-08-02 14:39:59] <thedeadlymoose> I would be happy to donate myself but I am fiscally unable to. :X And we probably collectively cannot reliably support the site forever.
[2012-08-02 14:40:01] <Bouncl> hi-ho
[2012-08-02 14:40:04] <Bouncl> this is not about the server
[2012-08-02 14:40:09] <Bouncl> but it is about things that need money
[2012-08-02 14:40:21] <EchoFourDelta> What could need money.
[2012-08-02 14:41:02] <Clef> we could try to do a kickstarter
[2012-08-02 14:41:05] <Clef> almost said dickstarter
[2012-08-02 14:41:24] <DrMann> Bright and I talked about that, Clef.
[2012-08-02 14:41:26] <Sorts> there really is a dickstarter out there isn't there
[2012-08-02 14:41:31] <DrMann> Probably.
[2012-08-02 14:41:31] <Sorts> I'm afraid to google
[2012-08-02 14:41:32] <thedeadlymoose> I bet there is
[2012-08-02 14:41:41] <DrMann> Anyway, here's my main issue once we start working on donations and sales.
[2012-08-02 14:41:43] <murphy_slaw> so not typing that in my address bar
[2012-08-02 14:41:49] <thedeadlymoose> ahahaha yes there are plenty of results for that
[2012-08-02 14:41:54] <DrMann> We could just have the money go to one of us, and then use that cash.
[2012-08-02 14:41:59] <DrMann> But that person is going to have to pay taxes on it.
[2012-08-02 14:42:01] <thedeadlymoose> Also a Penny Arcade comic
[2012-08-02 14:42:11] <EchoFourDelta> .g dickstarter
[2012-08-02 14:42:12] <CROM> EchoFourDelta: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/5/23/ — Penny Arcade - Dickstarter: "May 23, 2011 … Penny Arcade · The PA Report · PAX · The Trenches · Child's Play. Close. Penny Arcade · Comic · Archive · Forum · Store · PATV · PA Presents …"
[2012-08-02 14:42:13] <bright> For 25 dollars, your author avatar will be included in a tale by a senior staffer of your choice. For fifty dollars, they will be shown in said tale in a GOOD light. For 100 dollars, Troy will finish Unfinished Business.
[2012-08-02 14:42:29] <thedeadlymoose> Yeah, taxes… taxes are going to be an issue
[2012-08-02 14:42:48] |<— Eskobar has left irc.synirc.net (Ping timeout)
[2012-08-02 14:42:55] <bright> Keep some out for that purpose?
[2012-08-02 14:43:05] <Bouncl> .sea Unfinished Business
[2012-08-02 14:43:06] <CROM> Bouncl: No SCPs found.
[2012-08-02 14:43:07] <DrMann> Right, but again, that needs to be made clear.
[2012-08-02 14:43:10] <Bouncl> damnit CROM
[2012-08-02 14:43:18] <thedeadlymoose> Bouncl: Try Nala in site19
[2012-08-02 14:44:17] <DrMann> And it requires them to release information on their personal finances to show that the money only went to covering the overage on their taxes.
[2012-08-02 14:44:25] <EchoFourDelta> DrMann/bright: Again…
[2012-08-02 14:44:30] <DrMann> That's one benefit to creating a corporate entity.
[2012-08-02 14:44:33] <EchoFourDelta> What exactly would this money need to go toward?
[2012-08-02 14:44:44] <EchoFourDelta> If it's not about the server.
[2012-08-02 14:45:03] <Sorts> nnngh, I gotta jet, bbl friends
[2012-08-02 14:45:06] <DrMann> So far as I know, it is about the server, which is apparently going to be pretty damned expensive.
[2012-08-02 14:45:07] <thedeadlymoose> ciao Sorts
[2012-08-02 14:45:10] |<— Sorts has left irc.synirc.net (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[2012-08-02 14:45:12] <thedeadlymoose> What Mann said
[2012-08-02 14:45:21] <EchoFourDelta> 17:39 Bouncl this is not about the server 17:40 Bouncl but it is about things that need money
[2012-08-02 14:45:31] <EchoFourDelta> Ah, k, thought you guys were talking about something else
[2012-08-02 14:45:47] <Bouncl> Oh
[2012-08-02 14:45:54] <thedeadlymoose> the only other monetary thing might be 'one of us needs to hire a lawyer to check over shit' lol
[2012-08-02 14:45:56] <DrMann> There's site name registration, but hell, I can cover that.
[2012-08-02 14:45:57] <Bouncl> Did you read the deal I posted?
[2012-08-02 14:46:03] <Bouncl> er, that Mack did?
[2012-08-02 14:46:19] <Bouncl> We need to figure out the site legal policy, and that will probably take an IP lawyer at some point
[2012-08-02 14:46:23] <Clef> SCP Inc. could consist of, like, Gears and one other guy.
[2012-08-02 14:46:24] <Bouncl> to make sure we don't fuck anyone
[2012-08-02 14:46:34] <Bouncl> right
[2012-08-02 14:46:38] <Bouncl> what moose said, basically
[2012-08-02 14:46:39] <Clef> How much would it cost to raise enough money for around an hour or two of lawyer time?
[2012-08-02 14:46:55] <EchoFourDelta> Clef: OR, it could be someone who is around more often, has less on their plate, and can be actively involved.
[2012-08-02 14:46:59] <DrMann> Not sure. Probably not more than a few hundred dollars
[2012-08-02 14:47:00] <Bouncl> honestly, I would see if we can get in touch with the guys from Creative Commons
[2012-08-02 14:47:16] <Bouncl> They might know someone who will do it for cheap or free
[2012-08-02 14:47:18] <Bouncl> or something
[2012-08-02 14:47:19] <DrMann> Though that hour's likely just going to be enough to learn how much lawyer time we actually need.
[2012-08-02 14:47:20] <EchoFourDelta> Since that would come with very real responsibilities.
[2012-08-02 14:47:27] <DrMann> Bouncl, that's a good idea.
[2012-08-02 14:47:59] <DrMann> Echo, good point
[2012-08-02 14:48:07] <DrMann> Clef, you're part of SCP Inc.
[2012-08-02 14:48:18] <bright> Hahahahha
[2012-08-02 14:49:31] <DrMann> Here's something to consider on my end: I've got a year and a half left in the Air Force. And when I get out, I'll probably be getting a job that requires me to come back out here (or places like it, depending on what the country's doing at that point).
[2012-08-02 14:49:49] <Bouncl> They've got a "general info" email here, if an admin wants to shoot them one: gro.snommocevitaerc|ofni#gro.snommocevitaerc|ofni
[2012-08-02 14:49:54] <Bouncl> however that's for info about CC, I assume
[2012-08-02 14:50:24] <Bouncl> they have an irc, wherein you can find info down at the bottom of this page: http://creativecommons.org/contact
[2012-08-02 14:50:30] <Bouncl> and failing that, we can always send a letter :|
[2012-08-02 14:50:37] <Bouncl> (or phone)
[2012-08-02 14:50:39] <EchoFourDelta> Also, as a corollary to what I mentioned about fiscal stuff?
[2012-08-02 14:50:42] <DrMann> I leave for work in ten to fifteen minutes.
[2012-08-02 14:50:51] <Clef> hm?
[2012-08-02 14:50:52] <DrMann> So one of you can handle that.
[2012-08-02 14:51:14] <EchoFourDelta> The person who forms the corporation will also be responsible for receiving and responding to legal documentation and handling all litigation thereof.
[2012-08-02 14:51:20] <Bouncl> lastly, someone should get spike to use his ~connections~ to see if there are similar nonprofit entities who will help
[2012-08-02 14:51:21] <EchoFourDelta> It might sound obvious, but just throwing that out there.
[2012-08-02 14:51:32] <Bouncl> Yeah, that's the big issue, innit?
[2012-08-02 14:51:33] <EchoFourDelta> Not harping on the Gears thing, BUT
[2012-08-02 14:51:38] <Clef> … yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
[2012-08-02 14:51:44] <Bouncl> but Gears is not around often
[2012-08-02 14:51:50] <EchoFourDelta> At some point, you guys are going to have to realize that people *do* move on and become less involved
[2012-08-02 14:52:08] <Clef> :|
[2012-08-02 14:52:11] <EchoFourDelta> And that with respect to PF, his big relation is that he at one point wrote a lot and at some point registered a wikidot
[2012-08-02 14:52:20] <Bouncl> is there a way to pass off CEO if needed?
[2012-08-02 14:52:48] <Clef> This is sounding ridiculously dangerously close to people asking me to be more involved in the legal end. :|
[2012-08-02 14:52:52] <Bouncl> I don't know anything about that sort of thing
[2012-08-02 14:53:17] <EchoFourDelta> Whoever holds the keys to the kingdom will have all the responsibilities that go along with that, and has to deal with any and all legal and fiscal matters that go with it.
[2012-08-02 14:53:28] * Clef sighs.
[2012-08-02 14:53:31] <EchoFourDelta> No one's specifically asking you. I'm just throwing that out there.
[2012-08-02 14:53:33] <DrMann> Echo, there's a bit more to it than that. Not to say you're entirely wrong.
[2012-08-02 14:53:43] <bright> Some people move on, and become less involved.
[2012-08-02 14:54:02] <thedeadlymoose> Echo: We do recognize this. I'm just going to state this baldly. For better or for worse, we done gots ourselves into a situation where there's a VERY small pool people who are willing, able, involved enough AND trusted by the userbase enough to be given this suggested sole responsibility.
[2012-08-02 14:54:05] <DrMann> Also, Clef, I was being facetious. While one of us does need to do so, it doesn't have to be you.
[2012-08-02 14:54:29] <DrMann> And what Moose said.
[2012-08-02 14:54:30] <EchoFourDelta> Whoever is on paper for this *will* in some way be running a corporation.
[2012-08-02 14:54:32] <EchoFourDelta> thedeadlymoose: I know.
[2012-08-02 14:54:41] <EchoFourDelta> I'm not sayin'. I'm just sayin'.
[2012-08-02 14:54:45] <thedeadlymoose> Well we just seem to keep dancing around that. :P
[2012-08-02 14:55:08] <DrMann> The thing with Gears isn't just that he was prolific and an early joiner. It's that he's trusted by the community. But yes, if he isn't more involved, then he isn't suited to be the CEO.
[2012-08-02 14:55:17] <DrMann> I still want him in a senior leadership position.
[2012-08-02 14:55:26] <DrMann> That's because I trust his opinion. I trust him as a person.
[2012-08-02 14:55:36] <Bouncl> He's also shown to have a very good head on his shoulders
[2012-08-02 14:55:37] <bright> He's a good neutral party.
[2012-08-02 14:55:39] <EchoFourDelta> I'm not knocking that.
[2012-08-02 14:55:39] <thedeadlymoose> Everybody trusts Gears. Sigh.
[2012-08-02 14:55:42] <Bouncl> indeed
[2012-08-02 14:55:45] <EchoFourDelta> But if want a centerpiece…
[2012-08-02 14:55:47] <DrMann> But you're right. Whoever's in absolute charge needs to be here.
[2012-08-02 14:55:57] <DrMann> And he isn't. Not as much as we're going to need.
[2012-08-02 14:56:03] <murphy_slaw> On the other hand, he just tried to step away on 05
[2012-08-02 14:56:11] <Maddy> Clearly I should be CEO
[2012-08-02 14:56:16] <Bouncl> I'm peacing out to go home, you all have fun hashing this out.
[2012-08-02 14:56:17] * Maddy puts on a crown.
[2012-08-02 14:56:17] <thedeadlymoose> Yeah. I mean… is it possible to let him be in charge, and have him delegate responsibility in some meaningful way?
[2012-08-02 14:56:20] <murphy_slaw> I don't think that he is ready to take on MORE at this time
[2012-08-02 14:56:20] <thedeadlymoose> Boucl, ciao
[2012-08-02 14:56:23] <DrMann> Honestly? Someone I want for this?
[2012-08-02 14:56:25] <DrMann> Troy.
[2012-08-02 14:56:26] <EchoFourDelta> Hell, maybe a Canadian corporation is cheaper
[2012-08-02 14:56:28] <Bouncl> CEO's wear suits Maddy, not crowns.
[2012-08-02 14:56:32] <Maddy> Not in canada
[2012-08-02 14:56:36] <thedeadlymoose> Two problems with Troy.
[2012-08-02 14:56:40] <murphy_slaw> Bouncl: you work at all the wrong companies
[2012-08-02 14:56:47] <thedeadlymoose> (1) I don't think he wants to, same as Clef. Though I can't speak for that specifically.
[2012-08-02 14:57:21] <thedeadlymoose> (2), and this might not matter, ultimately - a small but loud minority of the userbase thinks Troy is the dicks, thanks to Raven, and because he isn't very visible most people just don't know who we is.
[2012-08-02 14:57:30] <thedeadlymoose> We all know, because we know that Troy is the guy who Gets Shit Done.
[2012-08-02 14:57:50] <bright> The problem is… You'll always have users who distrust certain people for certain reasons.
[2012-08-02 14:57:50] <thedeadlymoose> The userbase at large doesn't even know what Project Hellbutt WAS. Just an example.
[2012-08-02 14:57:58] <Scantron> i frankly don't think that user opinion matters for this
[2012-08-02 14:58:01] <thedeadlymoose> That's also true, Bright, hence my caveat.
[2012-08-02 14:58:20] <thedeadlymoose> I think user opinion DOES matter. It's just a matter of how much. It may well not matter in the case of Troy.
[2012-08-02 14:58:26] <thedeadlymoose> (And, I WOULD support Troy, myself, because he is close to a perfect choice and I'd trust him with anything. Just saying that /almost/ no matter who we pick, if it's one single person, there is going to be a downside that we should be anticipating.)
[2012-08-02 14:58:26] <Clef> Okay well… let's be honest. Is there ANYONE on the site that a majority of the userbase would trust in this? Because honestly I don't really see anyone.
[2012-08-02 14:58:38] <thedeadlymoose> Clef: That's what I was literally JUST about to type.
[2012-08-02 14:58:38] <Ragazzo> can i ask someone to shoot me a quick rundown on what the topic is in a pm?
[2012-08-02 14:58:48] <DrMann> But none of the other admins are any better, Moose. Gears, Light, Photo and these days Quik aren't around enough. Clef doesn't want it. Bright has the same problem you see with Troy, only worse. And I'm in the military.
[2012-08-02 14:58:53] <thedeadlymoose> It's pretty much just you and Gears, IMO, and neither of you have time for it.
[2012-08-02 14:58:57] <DrMann> We have to pick /someone/.
[2012-08-02 14:59:05] <DrMann> There's no ideal person.
[2012-08-02 14:59:10] <Scantron> Is there any objection to me not feeling comfortable supplying input on actual real word stuff like corporations and funding and stuff?
[2012-08-02 14:59:12] <DrMann> So we pick whoever is the least bad choice.
[2012-08-02 14:59:16] <thedeadlymoose> Mann: I am not disagreeing with you, note, I'm just flopping this shit all out on the table.
[2012-08-02 14:59:20] <DrMann> 'Sokay, Scan.
[2012-08-02 14:59:23] <thedeadlymoose> ^
[2012-08-02 14:59:32] |<— Bouncl has left irc.synirc.net (Ping timeout)
[2012-08-02 14:59:34] <Clef> Well
[2012-08-02 14:59:37] <Clef> let's be honest guys
[2012-08-02 14:59:38] <bright> And, this should be up on the O5, so eveeryone can input
[2012-08-02 14:59:43] <thedeadlymoose> I agree, Bright.
[2012-08-02 14:59:44] <Clef> how much "corporation" are we really aiming for?
[2012-08-02 14:59:55] <Clef> My understanding is it's just enough so that we can run the site.
[2012-08-02 14:59:58] <DrMann> Really, we're just looking at someone to handle money.
[2012-08-02 15:00:01] <DrMann> Right.
[2012-08-02 15:00:09] <DrMann> It's not even going to be about handling the administration of the site.
[2012-08-02 15:00:10] <Ragazzo> I'd just like to say that dexanote is a really cool guy, and around quite often
[2012-08-02 15:00:11] <murphy_slaw> Clef: enough so that we can't be indivudually sued :P
[2012-08-02 15:00:12] <DrMann> Which is what the members mostly care about.
[2012-08-02 15:00:36] <Clef> Mann: Given that, I'd consider taking that role on two caveats.
[2012-08-02 15:00:43] <DrMann> The majority of this isn't going to be that visible to them unless they really want to look into it (though the information /will/ be there if they want it).
[2012-08-02 15:00:53] <Clef> First of all I'd want to talk to a lawyer to protect my own damn ass from if a site user acts like a fucknut.
[2012-08-02 15:00:56] * RhettSarlin steps up and becomes the CEO
[2012-08-02 15:01:03] <DrMann> That's only good sense.
[2012-08-02 15:01:26] <Ragazzo> can you have more then one ceo? CEO partners?
[2012-08-02 15:01:38] <EchoFourDelta> No
[2012-08-02 15:01:44] <user> President/CEO?
[2012-08-02 15:01:45] <murphy_slaw> Ragazzo: you can have a board of directors
[2012-08-02 15:01:49] <Clef> Secondly I don't keep the money. It stays with SCP Corp or whatever. :|
[2012-08-02 15:01:54] <DrMann> Agreed.
[2012-08-02 15:02:02] <DrMann> That's the point of having the corporation.
[2012-08-02 15:02:07] <DrMann> So it can have the money.
[2012-08-02 15:02:15] <Ragazzo> A board could work. That's bene considered thoguh I'm sure.
[2012-08-02 15:02:18] <EchoFourDelta> Ragazzo: You can have the equivalent of adjuatants/lieutenants
[2012-08-02 15:02:22] <Clef> Oh, and third thing. The site never gets monetized. :P
[2012-08-02 15:02:25] <EchoFourDelta> But outside of that, or a BoD…
[2012-08-02 15:02:45] <DrMann> All money goes back into the site. Ideally, we'll have it set up as a non-profit.
[2012-08-02 15:03:03] <Clef> … one moment
[2012-08-02 15:03:46] <Clef> …
[2012-08-02 15:03:50] <Ragazzo> ?
[2012-08-02 15:03:53] <Clef> okay this is a fucking stupid idea… but.
[2012-08-02 15:03:56] <Clef> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pennyarcade/penny-arcade-sells-out
[2012-08-02 15:04:12] <thedeadlymoose> Clef, I was literally just about to link that. I hate you.
[2012-08-02 15:04:14] <DrMann> Yes, a kickstarter is an option.
[2012-08-02 15:04:15] <Clef> $2500 pledge
[2012-08-02 15:04:20] <murphy_slaw> Clef: don't see how that changes anything
[2012-08-02 15:04:22] |<— Eskobar has left irc.synirc.net (Ping timeout)
[2012-08-02 15:04:33] <murphy_slaw> Penny Arcade is already a for-profit corporation when they started that
[2012-08-02 15:04:34] <DrMann> Oh.
[2012-08-02 15:04:37] <DrMann> I see what you're talking about.
[2012-08-02 15:04:39] <thedeadlymoose> murphy: Scroll down.
[2012-08-02 15:04:48] <Ragazzo> …oh
[2012-08-02 15:04:52] <Ragazzo> that is interesting
[2012-08-02 15:05:09] <DrMann> "Robert Khoo will do a full analysis of your business plan, how it fits in the marketplace…"
[2012-08-02 15:05:16] <murphy_slaw> oh
[2012-08-02 15:05:22] <DrMann> However, that requires us to have $2500 laying around already.
[2012-08-02 15:05:24] <murphy_slaw> yeah, we don't need that
[2012-08-02 15:05:32] <thedeadlymoose> You're suggesting that staff, particularly big-name staff, beta-read some person's novel-length work. Or something like that.
[2012-08-02 15:05:38] <murphy_slaw> We'd be better off spending that money on a lawyer
[2012-08-02 15:05:43] <DrMann> Yeah.
[2012-08-02 15:05:49] <Clef> Just a thought. Continue.
[2012-08-02 15:05:50] <bright> Whaddya mean by 'monetized' clef? Do you mean WE never sell stuff to make money for the site, or we never seel stuff that makes money for individuals?
[2012-08-02 15:05:50] <thedeadlymoose> Heh, Clef, there are multiple 2500 pledge levels.
[2012-08-02 15:05:55] <murphy_slaw> and we'd spend less
[2012-08-02 15:05:56] <DrMann> If we were looking to be profitable, that would be a good plan.
[2012-08-02 15:06:03] <DrMann> But we can make the money easily enough.
[2012-08-02 15:06:13] <DrMann> It's just a matter of organizing how we handle that money that's a pain in the ass.
[2012-08-02 15:06:19] <RhettSarlin> that's a funny thing
[2012-08-02 15:06:19] <Clef> Bright: I basically mean we never cross over into for-profit.
[2012-08-02 15:06:26] <DrMann> Right, gotta head to work.
[2012-08-02 15:06:30] <RhettSarlin> recognizing that we could make money like hotcakes
[2012-08-02 15:06:31] <DrMann> Someone post this shit on 05.
[2012-08-02 15:06:35] <thedeadlymoose> Ciao, Mann.
[2012-08-02 15:06:38] <RhettSarlin> but we're not about that
[2012-08-02 15:06:53] <DrMann> Also, consider that we don't need the CEO to be the guy in charge of administration of the community.
[2012-08-02 15:07:06] <Clef> Rhett: we can't. The entire site revolves around Creative Commons.
[2012-08-02 15:07:17] <Scantron> how much money do we need?
[2012-08-02 15:07:26] <murphy_slaw> 130 bucks a month for the server
[2012-08-02 15:07:29] <RhettSarlin> Clef: creative commons means that yes we can actually, but we dont want to leap into that mess :P
[2012-08-02 15:07:30] <bright> Actually, by creative commons, we can. Anyone can.
[2012-08-02 15:07:40] <RhettSarlin> we want to stay aboveboard
[2012-08-02 15:07:45] <thedeadlymoose> Also, here's another issue. Our current license allows … any and all commercial use of wiki stuff. Just transferring stuff to a new site won't change the fact that it was originally licensed under CC.
[2012-08-02 15:07:50] <Scantron> hm, $1560 a year, assuming prices don't go up.
[2012-08-02 15:07:53] <EchoFourDelta> So… the more we get, the more we can be assured of the Foundation existing in perpetuity.
[2012-08-02 15:08:11] <Scantron> http://www.scp-wiki.net/forum/t-540262/deleted:scp-1403#post-1526336 unrelated
[2012-08-02 15:08:12] <bright> Which, is another reason I'd like us to have merch to help support the site. if WE'RE doing it, hopefully no one else will feel the need to.
[2012-08-02 15:08:15] <murphy_slaw> Scantron: in hosting, prices always go down, only bandwidth goes up
[2012-08-02 15:08:23] <Scantron> murphy_slaw: neat
[2012-08-02 15:08:55] <murphy_slaw> and if you can't make enough money off increased traffic to cover your bandwidth costs, you're doing something horribly wrong
[2012-08-02 15:09:24] <user> What do we actually want to set up a store?
[2012-08-02 15:09:37] <user> Do we want a link on a sidebar?
[2012-08-02 15:09:52] <user> Who would ship it and stuff like that?
[2012-08-02 15:09:56] <Clef> that's jumping the gun. :|
[2012-08-02 15:09:56] <thedeadlymoose> Clef: What happens if/when people offsite start turning the Foundation into for-profit works, as is 100% legal for them to do?
[2012-08-02 15:10:20] <user> Hey, these quesions will need to be answered down the road
[2012-08-02 15:10:21] <RhettSarlin> dont start on that till we actually discuss having such a thing in the first place
[2012-08-02 15:10:28] <RhettSarlin> hence "jumping the gun"
[2012-08-02 15:10:29] <RhettSarlin> too soon
[2012-08-02 15:10:33] <murphy_slaw> thedeadlymoose: we distribute it for free, as is 100% legal for us to do :D
[2012-08-02 15:10:34] <RhettSarlin> yes, eventually
[2012-08-02 15:10:35] <RhettSarlin> but not now
[2012-08-02 15:10:59] <thedeadlymoose> murphy: including derivative works?
[2012-08-02 15:11:04] <murphy_slaw> yep
[2012-08-02 15:11:04] <Ragazzo> Also there's the fact that anyone who'd do it is someone the communitty would probably publicly defame
[2012-08-02 15:11:15] <thedeadlymoose> ahhhhh, I didn't know that.
[2012-08-02 15:11:20] <murphy_slaw> thedeadlymoose: that's the "ShareAlike" part of our license
[2012-08-02 15:11:34] <murphy_slaw> we're using Attribution + ShareAlike
[2012-08-02 15:11:50] <Clef> What this comes down to is… we need a lawyer
[2012-08-02 15:11:57] <murphy_slaw> ype
[2012-08-02 15:11:59] <thedeadlymoose> Yes. yes we do
[2012-08-02 15:12:02] <murphy_slaw> 100% agreed
[2012-08-02 15:12:07] <user> Isn't spike a lawyer?
[2012-08-02 15:12:13] <RhettSarlin> yes, but
[2012-08-02 15:12:20] <murphy_slaw> without that, this discussion is all hot air
[2012-08-02 15:12:21] <RhettSarlin> we should be obtaining a lawyer officially
[2012-08-02 15:12:27] <RhettSarlin> which we have not retained spike's services that way
[2012-08-02 15:12:36] <RhettSarlin> as he has noted
[2012-08-02 15:12:41] <Eskobar> We'd need donations just to do that.
[2012-08-02 15:12:47] <Eskobar> A bunch of them.
[2012-08-02 15:12:52] <RhettSarlin> yup
[2012-08-02 15:13:13] <user> Maybe we do a donation drive of sone sort?
[2012-08-02 15:13:22] <Clef> What this comes down to is that we're discussing a bunch of shit and don't have any idea where to start.
[2012-08-02 15:13:27] <murphy_slaw> well
[2012-08-02 15:13:32] <murphy_slaw> it's a chicken-and-egg problem
[2012-08-02 15:13:34] <Clef> My suggestion: we need to start by finding a place to start.
[2012-08-02 15:13:38] <Eskobar> Nary a single idea.
[2012-08-02 15:13:54] <murphy_slaw> it costs money to hire a lawyer to be able to raise money safely
[2012-08-02 15:13:57] <Clef> Find a web forum or something
[2012-08-02 15:14:07] <Clef> find some free advice.
[2012-08-02 15:14:08] <murphy_slaw> Nolo Press might be a place to start
[2012-08-02 15:14:12] <Clef> find out where we can start.
[2012-08-02 15:14:18] <Clef> build from there
[2012-08-02 15:14:18] <Eskobar> What funds can we, the people in this room, raise?
[2012-08-02 15:14:29] <murphy_slaw> http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/nonprofits
[2012-08-02 15:14:49] <Clef> Also I don't like the idea of making it a corporation
[2012-08-02 15:15:00] <Clef> oddly enough… a Foundation might be the best way to go about it. :|
[2012-08-02 15:15:00] <murphy_slaw> (nolo press are tiny little super guys)
[2012-08-02 15:15:05] <Scantron> i'm not personally allowed to send money people online. Once I'm 18, though, I'd donate a fifty.
[2012-08-02 15:15:19] <Eskobar> How long is that?
[2012-08-02 15:15:21] <murphy_slaw> Clef: "foundations" are legal Corporations
[2012-08-02 15:15:38] <Scantron> i turn 18 in… 6 months and 23 days
[2012-08-02 15:15:39] <thedeadlymoose> okay, I'm out for the moment guys. late for real-life stuff. If no one posts on 05 by later this evening, I will post up the logs of this conversation.
[2012-08-02 15:15:46] * thedeadlymoose is gonna keep logging, but afk
[2012-08-02 15:16:14] <murphy_slaw> Clef: a "Corporation" is just a legal entity comprising multiple people that can act as a legal person
[2012-08-02 15:16:28] <murphy_slaw> i.e. own a bank account
[2012-08-02 15:16:50] <RhettSarlin> Clef: starting point is to work out the end objective. once that is determined, work out the intended path to get there. once that general outline is laid out, obtain donations and retain a lawyer to help us get things figured out, then do all the stuff needed to get to the objective
[2012-08-02 15:16:51] <murphy_slaw> that Nolo page is actually great
[2012-08-02 15:16:58] <murphy_slaw> http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/form-nonprofit-eight-steps-29484.html
[2012-08-02 15:17:09] <Clef> http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/protecting-nonprofit-corporation-tax-exempt-status-29895.html
[2012-08-02 15:17:16] <EchoFourDelta> *IS* there already a real-life entity that goes by SCP Foundation?
[2012-08-02 15:17:25] <RhettSarlin> what is a terrible idea is to start moving forward when you dont have a specific end goal in mind
[2012-08-02 15:17:30] <murphy_slaw> EchoFourDelta: yes, but they're in India :D
[2012-08-02 15:17:44] <Scantron> not an actual idea: find a rich person who reads the site. Suck up to them really, really hard. May or may not involve actual sucking.
[2012-08-02 15:17:50] <EchoFourDelta> murphy_slaw: Sooooooo… could we use it>
[2012-08-02 15:17:57] <murphy_slaw> yeah
[2012-08-02 15:18:05] <EchoFourDelta> B[ Fuck yea
[2012-08-02 15:18:08] <RhettSarlin> and one of the biggest problems is that in order to do ANY of those steps
[2012-08-02 15:18:15] <RhettSarlin> we have to have a specific individual or group that calls the shots
[2012-08-02 15:18:24] <RhettSarlin> which you could say is "senior staff"
[2012-08-02 15:18:26] <Clef> SCP Foundation Foundation. :D
[2012-08-02 15:18:31] <RhettSarlin> but we have so many different ideas going every which way
[2012-08-02 15:18:54] <RhettSarlin> we need more solid focused leadership, where "that person/group is in charge"
[2012-08-02 15:19:49] <Clef> Rhett: have fun with that.
[2012-08-02 15:20:36] <RhettSarlin> yup
[2012-08-02 15:22:07] <RhettSarlin> one of my biggest issues that i have had with SCP staff as a whole is the amount of structure is incredibly minimal. that has given us flexibility, which is a benefit, but it doesnt give direction. take for example just about any decision we make. how is it decided? well everyone basically kinda casts votes, some of which are ambiguous
[2012-08-02 15:22:16] <RhettSarlin> and whatever the general direction feels like is what we tend to go with
[2012-08-02 15:22:20] <RhettSarlin> there's few firm lines
[2012-08-02 15:22:31] <EchoFourDelta> This is what I was getting at before when I was on about us being more capable of making a decision at any level that didn't require a week and a half of concensus to achieve
[2012-08-02 15:22:37] <Clef> So
[2012-08-02 15:22:46] <Clef> what the site needs is a person who can take charge and make decisions.
[2012-08-02 15:22:55] <Clef> … you do it, Rhett.
[2012-08-02 15:23:07] <bright> Right, thats it, i'm taking over.
[2012-08-02 15:23:13] <bright> *waits for laughter to stop*
[2012-08-02 15:23:28] <Clef> Bright.
[2012-08-02 15:23:29] <Clef> I love you.
[2012-08-02 15:23:36] <EchoFourDelta> You didn't give it long enough to build before cutting it off, bright.
[2012-08-02 15:23:53] <EchoFourDelta> Like a delicate flower, struck down in its youth.
[2012-08-02 15:26:03] <Scantron> that is my fetish
[2012-08-02 15:31:29] <Eskobar> I think the democratic sort of way we do it is fine, sort of like a board of directors. But we need to get the bylaws of the board straightened out a bit.
[2012-08-02 15:31:40] <Eskobar> Regular meetings, for one thing.
[2012-08-02 15:32:09] <Eskobar> Quorum of present staff carries any motion. You aren't there, you aren't there.
[2012-08-02 15:33:02] <Eskobar> We can't do the "let's wait two weeks for everyone to chime in, then debate every nuance until everyone is either on the same side or just gives up."
[2012-08-02 15:34:04] <Clef> well question
[2012-08-02 15:34:13] <Clef> is site administration going to be the same as foundation administration?
[2012-08-02 15:34:47] <Eskobar> Various people (admins, I suppose) would have the authority to call any emergency meeting and preside over meetings.
[2012-08-02 15:35:17] <Eskobar> Clef: Eh. That's a legal question we can work out for sure later, but my guess would be not necessarily.
[2012-08-02 15:35:33] <Eskobar> We don't even have to have joint ownership in any form.
[2012-08-02 15:35:35] <Clef> Also where will the Foundation be incorporated?
[2012-08-02 15:35:47] <Clef> some states require a staff of 3
[2012-08-02 15:35:53] <Clef> others you can incorporate with just one
[2012-08-02 15:36:18] <Eskobar> That's assuming we incorporate in the U.S.
[2012-08-02 15:36:25] <Eskobar> Is that a given?
[2012-08-02 15:37:45] <Clef> no idea.
[2012-08-02 15:37:51] <Clef> … :|
[2012-08-02 16:46:42] <Rhett> Clef: i totally would if i were a more well known, established, and trusted member of the community :P as it is i'm just the newest member o' senior staff. i get a bit tired of dithering at times. i agree that the democratic system is a good thing as eskobar pointed out, we dont need a dictator
[2012-08-02 16:47:49] <bright> i think we've done really well to keep it as democratic as it is.
[2012-08-02 16:48:01] <Rhett> but for example, at my other site i'm an admin for, we have specific rules of "discussions go for 2 week after which a vote is made. votes go for one week and require a 2/3rds majority"
[2012-08-02 16:48:05] <bright> Any moire, and it bogs down, any less, and we start seeing dictators
[2012-08-02 16:49:32] <Rhett> when we dont even have criteria firmly established of what constitutes agreement or something passing or failing, then you know you lack structure. it becomes ambiguous and is up to whoever decides to take the lead, if anyone
Summary in one line:
<Clef> What this comes down to is… we need a lawyer
Also: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/nonprofits
We got into the need for a better staff decision making process by the end of the conversation, so that's there too.
Anyone else feel free to write a summary for the lazy, but the whole conversation is worth a once-over.
