Disciplinary - Nathanoraptor13

Summary:

Obvious plagiarism

Disciplinary - Nathanoraptor13

Sly161 13 Sep 2017 20:21

Was told to put this here instead of Non-Disc.

Site member Nathanoraptor13 (account 133 days old, site membership 99 days old) has recently put this thread up on the Drafts and Critique board that plagiarizes many lines from SCP-2547. Examples are:

Draft:

Due to the nature of SCP-XXXX, effective containment is not possible at this time. Towns determined to be affected by SCP-XXXX manifestation events are to be monitored via remote surveillance. The population of towns undergoing an event must be dosed with Class A amnestics at the end of the manifestation event, with approval from a researcher with Clearance 4 or higher.

2547:

Due to the nature of SCP-2547, effective containment is not possible at this time. Towns determined to be susceptible to SCP-2547 manifestation events are to be monitored via remote surveillance and evacuation of the population is to be attempted if deemed possible. Towns undergoing an event are to be dosed aerially with Class A amnestics at the end of the manifestation event.

Draft:

Immediately Upon Arrival: The town suffers a power outage between midnight and 4 AM on the night of the first new moon. SCP-XXXX instances will form a border around the town and block all attempts at escape. Attempts to leave town via a vehicle will provoke an attack by SCP-XXXX.

2547:

Immediately Upon Arrival: The town suffers a power outage between midnight and 4 AM. SCP-2547 members form a border around the most densely populated portion of the town and block all attempts at escape. Attempts to enter a vehicle will provoke an attack by SCP-2547.

Draft:

Time Between SCP-XXXX-1 Appearance and Departure: SCP-XXXX-1 will take up residence in the local cemetery.

2547:

Time Between SCP-2547-1 Appearance and Departure: SCP-2547-1 will take up residence in the local church and hold regular sermons four times a day.

These are just examples, there are plenty more throughout the draft. Not disc staff so I am unsure of what should be done, but I believe we have a pretty strict plagiarism policy.

The draft can be found in full here: http://scpsandbox2.wikidot.com/nathanoraptor13

Re: Disciplinary - Nathanoraptor13

ProcyonLotor 13 Sep 2017 20:23

They didn't even try to hide it. Recommending permaban.

Re: Disciplinary - Nathanoraptor13

A Random Day 13 Sep 2017 22:25

They replied:

I didn't mean to plagarise anyone's work; I'll fix it. And, admittedly, I did take the basic tenet of " Anthropomorphic animal religious leader and his congregation" from 2547.

While it's important to punish people for plagiarism, we caught it early, they fessed up immediately¹, and they are willing to rectify their error. I am a benevolent god mod who is willing to let them avoid a permanent ban in favor of a weeklong ban or even a simple revocation.

Footnotes

1. even if that whole "didn't mean to" thing is bunk

Last edited on 13 Sep 2017 22:25 by A Random Day Show more

Re: Disciplinary - Nathanoraptor13

MayD 13 Sep 2017 22:42

I'm in the same boat. To me, this reads much more as them trying to remix an SCP they like in their own style than traditional plagiarism. Yes, the user plagiarized something, but they've probably never actually been faced with what plagiarism actually is. To me, this seems like the kind of plagiarism I'd see in like high or middle school, where the student looks at the wikipedia page for their topic, and steal quotes from the page and remix them a bit so they can fool the teacher.

I think a revocation or short ban is best, as, like I said, the user has probably never been faced with what plagiarism actually is.

Re: Disciplinary - Nathanoraptor13

thedeadlymoose 14 Sep 2017 09:10

To me, this reads much more as them trying to remix an SCP they like in their own style than traditional plagiarism.

To me, this seems like the kind of plagiarism I'd see in like high or middle school, where the student looks at the wikipedia page for their topic, and steal quotes from the page and remix them a bit so they can fool the teacher.

These are very different things.

The first sounds like a good argument for a warning; the second sounds like a good argument for a permaban.

Re: Disciplinary - Nathanoraptor13

MayD 14 Sep 2017 12:17

I apologize, I minced my words there.

The second quote is more what I was trying to say. And to use your post below, I do give the user a measure of good faith. I don't believe there was any ill intent with their plagarism, and was just using 2547 as a crutch for their own writing.

Re: Disciplinary - Nathanoraptor13

Quikngruvn 14 Sep 2017 03:33

I am adamantly opposed to short bans or otherwise light punishments for plagiarism on general principle. The idea that a user can steal other people's work and get away with a metaphorical slap on the wrist runs counter to site practices as well as literary ethics in general. And I don't really buy the argument that the user has never had to face what plagiarism actually is— if you want to be a writer, you ought to know not to try to pass off other people's work as your own. If you don't know that and/or can't figure it out, then you're probably too young and/or immature for the site. And if people are concerned about users not knowing what plagiarism actually entails, then it needs to be spelled out in the How to Write guide in no uncertain terms.

The benefit of the doubt I'm willing to extend is only enough to not advocate for permabanning. So Imma suggest a year-long ban, which ought to be plenty of time for anyone to go learn what plagiarism is and why it's bad.

Re: Disciplinary - Nathanoraptor13

thedeadlymoose 14 Sep 2017 09:08

(Posting this partly because I weighed in extensively on the last plagiarism controversy.)

This is weirdly in-between what we usually get. Lifting the text of containment procedures usually results in a warning (and mandatory edit), and full on "whole cloth" plagiarism (or elements that are vital to the SCP itself) gets a permaban.

Whereas this went much further than just lifting containment procedures, but the core/vital elements of the SCP are (as far as I can tell) original material.

I can see why people would want to advocate for an "in-between" punishment in this case.

However, as I've said before (with some independent agreement), I think there's no point to short bans for plagiarism.

We give warnings when we're extending the benefit of the doubt: this was an honest mistake, a clue-free error, laziness that wasn't a conscious attempt to pass off someone else's work as one's own but merely copying text as a crutch (the best argument for not banning this guy), or something similar.

If no benefit of the doubt is warranted: plagiarism is extremely serious. Should be at least a year's ban, and in most cases, a permanent ban.

So: I recommend either giving a warning — making it clear that you only get one warning, since we can't give benefit of the doubt twice — or give a permanent/year-long ban.

Last edited on 14 Sep 2017 09:18 by thedeadlymoose Show more

Re: Disciplinary - Nathanoraptor13

Sly161 15 Sep 2017 16:10

User has made a repeat thread here: http://www.scp-wiki.net/forum/t-3612792/scavenger-cult#post-3593748

Notable is this at the bottom:

(Any similarities to a certain coyote are intentional; I liked the idea of "anthropomorphic animal religious leader and his congregation" shown in that SCP.)

Seems like an obvious nod to 2547 and the draft still looks kinda similar to it, espically the format of the first collapsible.

EDIT: I'd also like to mention that although a site member has called them out on this issue, I don't think we as staff really said anything to them yet. Should this be addressed via a PM?

Last edited on 15 Sep 2017 17:00 by Sly161 Show more

Re: Disciplinary - Nathanoraptor13

Zyn 16 Sep 2017 04:44

EDIT: I'd also like to mention that although a site member has called them out on this issue, I don't think we as staff really said anything to them yet. Should this be addressed via a PM?

Yeah, please give them a nudge about their stuff coming off as plagiarism, which people have been banned over. I don't think we need to phrase it as a staff order just yet, but they should be aware of how borrowing too much from other stuff reflects badly on them as a writer. And the audience might call them on the borrowing rather than finishing the read, etc.

Re: Disciplinary - Nathanoraptor13

Zyn 17 Sep 2017 18:45

…so it looks like a message was never sent to the user regarding the situation. They've been proactive and contacted me about it, and I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt in this situation and go with an official warning. The contents of the message they sent me will be posted if I am given permission from them to do so.

PM contents as follows:

+ show block

I would like to talk about my recent transgressions; as enclosed in this URL (http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-3607733/disciplinary-nathanoraptor13). At the end of the discussion, you recommended:

"Yeah, please give them a nudge about their stuff coming off as plagiarism, which people have been banned over. I don't think we need to phrase it as a staff order just yet, but they should be aware of how borrowing too much from other stuff reflects badly on them as a writer. And the audience might call them on the borrowing rather than finishing the read, etc."

Given the sentences for plagiarism (malicious or not), I am very lucky to have not been permanently banned (indeed, some of your fellows were advocating this; this is understandable). I am aware of this and do not want to be in this situation again. I would like a member of site staff to give me this nudge, please and pretty soon. I understand that I will only get one warning, since you can't give people the benefit of the doubt twice; I would think the same in your situation.

I am not a plagiarist; I was just being a stupid and lazy newbie. I was not consciously attempting to pass off someone else's work as my own but merely copying text as a crutch; I understand this is frowned upon. I did not mean this out of malice; I was just taking too much inspiration from an SCP I like. I have learnt my lesson and I'm going to use better judgement in future.

That being said, however, I am feeling a little miffed at how this was handled. Someone informed me of my (wholly accidental) plagiarism early, I did not try and hide the fact I had done this, and, as soon as I was informed, I set about rectifying my error. I did not know until three days after I had rectified my error that the site mods had even gotten involved.

I hope to hear from you soon.
Nathanoraptor13

We definitely need to review the policy on plagiarism (and maybe have something written up for staff and site members to refer to, and possibly a quick explanation of why plagiarism is bad, especially on a Creative Commons licensed site). In this case though, the user has been very honest with the staff they've interacted with and I feel like that is behavior that should be encouraged.

I'm against a ban, and in favor of a warning. Of course, if this continues to be an issue, we move immediately to longer bans. I personally would like to believe it won't come to that in this case, though.

Last edited on 17 Sep 2017 20:33 by Zyn Show more