Banned for a few hours for not dropping an argument after repeated warnings. I'm probably not going to be awake to lift the ban later, so someone take care of that for me, if you will.
Just for the record:
Full pointless argument (warning, 500+ lines):
*Syka loev C&C*
[23:33:53] < PaulS> alsoo, C&C > starcrap
[23:33:57] < Syka> lol
[23:34:02] < Syka> the reviews for SC2
[23:34:12] < Syka> the professionals are like 10/10 omg yay
[23:34:22] < Syka> the people who own the game give it a 4
[23:34:36] < Syka> and have likened it to MW2
[23:34:53] < Syka> hyped like fuck, sells well, but is a totally crap game in itself
[23:34:54] < Ashm> really? Whoa.
[23:34:59] < Syka> they didn't even sell the entire game
[23:44:14] < Syka> PaulS: well yes
[23:44:15] < Az> i play 3, but definately not a game i would get too much into, so many problems with balance imo
[23:44:21] < Syka> what
[23:44:25] < Syka> C&C3 is balanced
[23:44:32] < Az> oh yeah, mass scorpion tank
[23:44:38] < Az> BILLION SCORPION TANKS!
[23:44:42] < Az> just being shoved down your throat
[23:44:44] < Syka> Scrin with the mothership
[23:44:45] < Az> not my style of game
[23:44:48] < Syka> fucks armour up
[23:44:52] < PaulS> Az: another lovely thing about C&C(from RA onward). You can edit the .ini's directly and mod it however you want to.
[23:45:04] < Syka> Blizzard make micro games
[23:45:04] < Az> mods don't count
[23:45:07] < Az> thats not the game they released
[23:45:08] *** Dae [~moc.rr.ser.lacos.80BCFE32-CRInys|ladeaD#moc.rr.ser.lacos.80BCFE32-CRInys|ladeaD] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[23:45:11] < Syka> C&C is a combination of the 2
[23:45:23] < Syka> well then DOTA doesn't count
[23:45:25] < PaulS> Az: it was *deliberately designed* to be able to edit without doing massive modding
[23:45:29] < Az> you're right it doesn't count
[23:45:31] < Az> i wouldn't count
[23:45:33] < Az> it
[23:45:34] < Syka> I hardly hear of people playing straight SC anymore
[23:45:35] < Az> DoTA is its own game
[23:45:41] < Syka> I hear "DoTA"
[23:45:49] < Az> dota isn't in SC first off
[23:45:53] *** Dae [~moc.rr.ser.lacos.80BCFE32-CRInys|ladeaD#moc.rr.ser.lacos.80BCFE32-CRInys|ladeaD] has joined #site19
[23:45:54] < Sophos> DotA is for WC3
[23:45:57] < Az> yeah
[23:46:08] < Syka> Blizzard RTSs i'm saying
[23:46:16] < Az> about the mod statement: a crappy game can be modded until it is good, but then its not the same game, its something new, thus it doesn't count
[23:46:22] < Az> yeah syka
[23:46:26] < Az> not sure if you're familiar but umm…
[23:46:28] < Az> korea
[23:46:31] < Az> nuff said :P
[23:46:33] < Syka> …and?
[23:46:38] < Az> plenty of people are still into the original SC1 scene
[23:46:49] < Az> SC1 is still a common practice at my own local LAN parties
[23:46:53] < Syka> plenty of people are still into Doom.
[23:46:59] < Syka> and Unreal Tournament
[23:47:03] < Az> yeah, decent games
[23:47:07] < PaulS> Az: not my point. My point is that it was designed better. Also, C&C's got Tanya :D
[23:47:14] < Az> designed better?
[23:47:16] < Az> really?
[23:47:17] < Syka> and Tiberium Sun/Dawn
[23:47:18] < Syka> yes
[23:47:18] < Az> How so
[23:47:22] < Az> what about it was designed better
[23:47:22] < PaulS> Az: see above
[23:47:23] < Gwendolyn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNuM9HugPm4
[23:47:24] < Syka> Blizzard are shitty coders
[23:47:32] < Az> oh? how so?
[23:47:34] < Az> examples?
[23:47:44] * Syka points to 2GB WoW patches
[23:47:47] < PaulS> i.e. easily tinkered with without having to be a dedicated modder, etc.
[23:48:01] < PaulS> light on resources
[23:48:12] < Az> i point to free content being added to justify large patches (although i don't play WoW myself)
[23:48:16] < Syka> what
[23:48:17] < Syka> no
[23:48:24] < Syka> WoW has no content in those patches
[23:48:27] < Syka> they are fixing fuckups
[23:48:33] < Gwendolyn> Ahaha
[23:48:35] < Syka> remember the plague?
[23:48:38] < Gwendolyn> Is anybody watching that
[23:48:45] < Az> i don't remember it because i didn't play it, but i know of it
[23:48:49] < Az> through wikipedia
[23:48:56] < Syka> nearly every single city in WoW was dead
[23:48:58] < Az> simple mistakes, guess what: game makers have bugs in their game
[23:49:02] < Gwendolyn> That was hilarious
[23:49:04] < Az> this just happened to be a hilarious bug
[23:49:08] < Az> which should be reintroduced :D
[23:49:14] < Syka> guess what; I'm a programmer, saying "it's a bug" doesn't cut it
[23:49:31] < Az> yeah, i'm quite familiar with game design: all games have bugs
[23:49:34] < Gwendolyn> The protoss player rushed a probe at the terran player and started building in the corner of his start zone int he fog of war
[23:49:36] < Az> what of it?
[23:49:37] < Syka> unless Blizzard uses their playerbase as testers
[23:49:47] < Syka> all games have bugs, yes
[23:49:49] < Gwendolyn> Shortly after the probe arried, the terran player sent an SCV to the protoss base and did the same thing
[23:49:58] < Az> double rush? nice
[23:50:04] < Az> hold on, i have a good base trade game i'll pull up
[23:50:07] < Gwendolyn> They build units right in each others base, both attacked the harvesters
[23:50:09] < Syka> also
[23:50:16] < Syka> SC and Zerg Rushing
[23:50:22] < Gwendolyn> The harvesters ditch both bases and head to the other one
[23:50:36] < Gwendolyn> The nexus dies and is rebuilt, and the command center just lifts off and flies accross
[23:50:42] < Syka> if it's possible to rush a player within the first 10 minutes, something is *wrong*
[23:50:45] < Gwendolyn> And then they basically just restart the match in each others original starting point
[23:51:53] < Syka> lol
[23:52:06] < Az> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ncb7lHNWbnU
[23:52:18] < Syka> I remember playing against a WC player in AoE3
[23:52:23] < Az> what about zerg rushing syka?
[23:52:26] < Syka> they couldn't zerg rush
[23:52:29] < Syka> they didn't know what to do
[23:52:44] < Syka> they spammed militia which got cleaned up by like two towers
[23:53:05] < Syka> Az: if one player can rush, that's bad.
[23:53:12] < Syka> unbalanced as hell
[23:53:13] < Az> rush is relative is it not?
[23:53:16] < Gwendolyn> You know what makes me sad
[23:53:24] < Gwendolyn> You can't use the Science Vessel in regular games
[23:53:25] < Az> only unbalanced if its ridiculously hard to defend against
[23:53:30] < Gwendolyn> I think it's campeign only or something
[23:53:35] < Gwendolyn> I loved that thing
[23:53:39] < Az> if someone 4pools me in SC1 i do quite fine, in fact i generally come out ahead
[23:53:43] < Gwendolyn> Especially in the mission where you get to use the Odin and build Thors
[23:53:55] *** MisterFlames [~ten.tsacmoc.aw.1dsh.16251B5-CRInys|SD#ten.tsacmoc.aw.1dsh.16251B5-CRInys|SD] has quit [Ping timeout]
[23:54:00] < Syka> SC is like, the only game i have seen
[23:54:04] < Gwendolyn> I build like only 4 thors, and just had a fleet of Science Vessels following them and healing them
[23:54:06] < Syka> where a strategy is banned
[23:54:07] < Gwendolyn> And they never died
[23:54:15] < Az> oh?
[23:54:18] < Az> what strategy?
[23:54:25] < Syka> zerg rushing
[23:54:33] < Az> umm, do you mean stuff like
[23:54:35] < Az> NR15 or something
[23:54:41] < Syka> no
[23:54:42] < Az> because thats common in many games, actually built into some
[23:54:50] < Az> because zerg rush isn't banned anywhere i've heard
[23:54:56] *** MisterFlames [~ten.tsacmoc.aw.1dsh.16251B5-CRInys|SD#ten.tsacmoc.aw.1dsh.16251B5-CRInys|SD] has joined #site19
[23:55:00] < Gwendolyn> How is zerg rush banned?
[23:55:03] < Syka> i've seen it banned in some matchup games
[23:55:06] < Az> unless its players playing amongst themselves, which is personally up to you
[23:55:08] < KiraKodera> zerg rush is a legitimate strategy
[23:55:08] < Syka> "no zerg rushing"
[23:55:09] < Az> ohhh so just random games?
[23:55:18] < Az> well whats to say "no scorpion tank spam"
[23:55:22] < Az> or "no mothership from scrin"
[23:55:23] < Syka> nothing
[23:55:24] < Az> thats banned :P
[23:55:27] < Syka> because you can counter that
[23:55:30] < Syka> fucking *easily*
[23:55:33] < Gwendolyn> Can't you just stick a building on a narrow pass to make a choke point and take on lings one at a time?
[23:55:35] < Az> you can counter zerg rush easily
[23:55:39] < Az> if you know what you're doing
[23:55:42] < Az> my poitn being syka
[23:55:44] < Syka> by the time you have those tanks, right
[23:55:55] < Ashm> Is the SC Battlenet still up and running?
[23:55:59] < Az> that unless its an official ban, it doesn't count, becasue bans within individual player circles exist in every game
[23:55:59] < Syka> I have a fleet of Assault ships and enough lightning towers to fuck them uo
[23:56:01] < Syka> up*
[23:56:07] < Az> the original SC battlenet should be up ashm
[23:56:24] < Ashm> Sweet, I have the original installed, but haven't played for ages.
[23:56:28] < Az> its tied to Diablo2 bnet i believe, i doubt they'll take it down anytime soon
[23:56:41] < Ashm> D2's brilliant. Have that too.
[23:57:32] < Az> again syka, my point was that the strategies which are "banned" as you described aren't at all banned except within individual groups. In professional play, and regular league play, its perfectly allowed, and can be easily countered
[23:57:40] < Az> much like the tank rush you know to get the lightning towers
[23:57:52] < Az> against a ling rush i know how to control my workers and fight back
[23:58:04] < Syka> I can counter scorpion tanks with anything :l
[23:58:07] < Az> very simple once you know how to, but if oyu odn't then you're hurting, but thats true for many things
[23:58:42] < Az> you see my point though, right syka?
[23:59:11] < Syka> soooo you're defending a tactic that makes earlygame suck
[23:59:34] < Syka> that you need to play about ten times to learn how to counter
[23:59:39] < Syka> before you even have a base set up
—- Day changed Sun Aug 08 2010
[00:00:10] < Az> your'e putting words into my mouth syka, words that i never said
[00:00:29] < Syka> Zerg rushing pulls out the fun
[00:00:55] < Syka> it's not fun at all to be in 10 minutes and being attacked before you have barely anything
[00:01:18] < Az> to say "you're defending something that makes the early game suck!" is very opinionated, and makes me out to be the bad guy, even though it doesn't add to the argument.
[00:01:34] < Syka> lol.
[00:01:45] < Az> I never said you had to play a game ten times to learn how to counter. You do need a basic understanding of the game, but thats just it
[00:01:47] < PaulS> Az: that you're defending SC as being better than C&C is sufficent to make you the bad guy
[00:02:12] < Syka> C&C is better, as you don't have to be wondering if you're going to get rush-crushed
[00:02:19] < Syka> because yknow
[00:02:27] < Syka> there's something called expansion
[00:02:28] < Az> ok a little backstory: I argue professionally, If you really want to make progress you'll have to use logic and reasoning for me :P
[00:02:32] <~Paradox> Gwen! Gwen! You around?
[00:02:35] <~Paradox> Gwendolyn
[00:02:40] < Gwendolyn> Sort of
[00:02:48] < Syka> okay
[00:02:49] < Gwendolyn> Watching epic SC2 replay
[00:02:54] < Syka> start up a SC game
[00:02:57] < Syka> right?
[00:03:02] < Syka> your opponent is Zerg
[00:03:05] < Az> while you've made points, i've managed to reduce it to the absurd and make equal comparisons within the other games, so you have to find something new
[00:03:05] < Syka> what will they do
[00:03:11] < Az> varies
[00:03:14] < Az> i play zerg actually :D
[00:03:33] < Syka> they will do the tactic that gives them the best chance of winning
[00:03:44] < Gwendolyn> What do you need Paradox?
[00:03:53] <~Paradox> http://forums.grandbell.net/index.php/topic,2636.msg47827.html#new
[00:04:02] < Syka> which from what I've heard and got from the one or two SC games I've played before I chucked the game, is a rush
[00:04:05] < Syka> a quick defeat
[00:04:07] < Gwendolyn> There's a board I haven't seen in a long time
[00:04:12] <~Paradox> FESS opened up for a nostalgia party for a few hours
[00:04:21] <~Paradox> and I was just reading Ed yell at you
[00:04:22] < Az> you've heard wrong then syka
[00:04:29] < Az> think of the tank example i've used
[00:04:34] <~Paradox> my heart is full of nostalgia and baww.
[00:04:40] < Gwendolyn> Wait, at /me/?
[00:04:41] *** progress [ten.htuoslleb.msa.953D9742-CRInys|tibbiM#ten.htuoslleb.msa.953D9742-CRInys|tibbiM] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
[00:04:41] < Syka> PaulS: i send 30 scorpion tanks at you
[00:04:48] < Syka> PaulS: what do you do
[00:04:52] < Az> you say its very easy to defend the mass scorpion tank, but i've heard otherwise. You play the game a lot so you have a lot of experience, and it doesn't seem at all a problem to you
[00:05:03] < PaulS> Syka: they get minced by my already existing defenses
[00:05:04] < Az> I am to C&C3 as you are to SC
[00:05:07] < Syka> here's the thing
[00:05:08] <~Paradox> in an old topic
[00:05:09] <~Paradox> about SC2
[00:05:16] < Syka> any tactics are in later game, Az
[00:05:24] < Gwendolyn> lol 2008
[00:05:34] < Az> what do you mean by that syka?
[00:05:42] < Syka> Az: you have an established base, and enough resources
[00:05:45] < PaulS> Syka: I send twenty Nod Artillery(TS era) at you. What do you do?
[00:06:07] < Syka> PaulS: mince you with 120 rocket squads
[00:06:14] <~Paradox> lol 2008 indeed
[00:06:22] < Az> what does that mean syka? are you saying people dn't have established bses and enough resources?
[00:06:25] < Az> don't have that in sc*
[00:06:27] <~Paradox> also haha it's been two years and we just got SC2 :3
[00:06:35] < Az> ??
[00:06:40] < Az> i believe you're out of time paradox
[00:06:40] < Syka> Az: when you're being zerg rushed, yes.
[00:07:13] < Az> we've been waiting 12 years paradox
[00:07:15] < Syka> PaulS: in C&C3 i made 200 or so MG troops as GDI
[00:07:22] < PaulS> Syka: nice!
[00:07:28] < Syka> if you've been waiting since the game was released
[00:07:31] < Syka> that's a fucking horrible game
[00:07:32] < Az> syka, in C&C3 you cannot defend yourself with economic units, right?
[00:07:39] < Syka> Az: yes you can
[00:07:42] < Syka> rocket harvesters
[00:07:46] < Syka> they fuck your airships up
[00:07:52] < Az> hold on syka, consider this
[00:07:58] <~Paradox> 2 years since 2008
[00:07:59] < PaulS> Harvies in all the C&C games squish infantry :D
[00:08:03] <~Paradox> which is what we were talking about
[00:08:04] <~Paradox> :I
[00:08:06] < Gwendolyn> I heard all of the campaigns will be finished by next spring while I was buying SC2. So I was probably right when I said it won't be a year between released, blacken can go fuck himself
[00:08:26] < Syka> also lol
[00:08:32] < Syka> you have to buy each campaign
[00:08:44] < Syka> Blizzard are really milking the fanbase
[00:08:58] < Az> a professional playing C&C3, knows when to stop focusing on economy and build up defense/offense. Said pro is playing against a newb who does not know when to switch to defense/offense from economic focus. The pro gets the offense at the typical time, and attacks
[00:09:01] < Syka> the other 2 campaigns had better be under $10
[00:09:05] < PaulS> Syka: in TS, I modded the nod arty to have a warhead with 20 individual payloads, one per square. it effectively carpet bombed with every shot. And had three shot burst.
[00:09:10] < Syka> Az: hahahahahaha
[00:09:11] < Syka> ahahhaha
[00:09:18] < Syka> >stop focusing on economy
[00:09:20] < Syka> >C&C
[00:09:24] < Gwendolyn> There's going to be a bundle pack eventually probably
[00:09:32] < Syka> >implying you can't do both at the same time in this game
[00:09:34] < Az> you should know what i mean syka and not take it out of context
[00:09:40] < Gwendolyn> But way too far in the future than I'm willing to wait, so that's why I got the marine one right away
[00:09:51] < Ashm> The fact that you have to buy each campaign is retarded
[00:09:53] < Az> read what people mean, not literal interpretations
[00:09:59] < Az> and why do you HAVE to buy each campaign?
[00:10:04] < Syka> you are a noob in C&C if you switch phases, Az
[00:10:12] < Syka> you do both since the first minute
[00:10:24] < Az> ok, my point exactly
[00:10:28] <~Paradox> but all the races ARe playable online
[00:10:30] < Az> the experienced player knows this
[00:10:31] < Gwendolyn> You have to buy each campaign in the same sense you have to buy every single version of pokemon
[00:10:32] < Syka> or you get raped by early exploration squads
[00:10:32] < Az> the newb does not
[00:10:36] < Gwendolyn> You really don't, but it's funner if you do
[00:10:43] < Az> ohh whats this? exploration squad rush!
[00:10:45] < Az> omfg
[00:10:47] < Syka> no
[00:10:48] < Az> broken game
[00:10:50] < Az> :P
[00:11:00] < Gwendolyn> Except I guess SC2 has just a lot more than a handful of version specific characters
[00:11:07] < Ashm> Also, Bendz, the turnaround is really quick. Mine took about an hour.
[00:11:09] < PaulS> Az: the newb focuses on attacking. because, you know, the fineries of infrastructure building are generally not picked up rapidly. Which works FINE.
[00:11:19] < PaulS> i.e. the newb has a chance in C&C
[00:11:31] < Syka> Az: expansion squads are ~3 tanks and a MCV
[00:11:40] < Az> how do you not see my comparisons between teh game, that between veterans/newbs. There is no problem of zerg rushing for people if you understand the game.
[00:11:50] *** Bendz [~ten.tenreitnorf.ac.dclp.2lsd.39A86C3F-CRInys|alliztahc#ten.tenreitnorf.ac.dclp.2lsd.39A86C3F-CRInys|alliztahc] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.11/20100701023340]]
[00:11:51] < Syka> there is plenty problem
[00:11:57] < Az> just as if you understand the C&C game then there is no problem
[00:12:10] < PaulS> Az: and that's the point. You don't need to be a veteran player to do decently in C&C
[00:12:21] *** LastSatellite [ten.elbacwahs.sv.EEAA89A4-CRInys|tibbiM#ten.elbacwahs.sv.EEAA89A4-CRInys|tibbiM] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
[00:12:25] < Az> by veteran i mean someone who understands teh game, not someone who has been playing for years
[00:12:32] < PaulS> In all fairness, syka, I switch devense/offense in C&C. I turtle for the first 80% of the game.
[00:12:36] < Syka> if you don't understand C&C off the bat
[00:12:49] < Syka> you should be kicked in the leg
[00:12:54] < Az> i've heard there will be a 2 year period between the expansions
[00:13:01] < Agasa> what's C&C?
[00:13:02] < Agasa> :
[00:13:18] < Syka> Agasa: Command & Conquer
[00:13:18] < Az> there are 2 rumors about the expansions: that they will not add anything significant to multiplayer, and will only be singleplayer, or that any releases to the multiplayer will be available to everyone
[00:13:28] < Az> those are the 2 most accepted rumors that i know
[00:13:33] < Syka> Blizzard won't add any sort of interesting features
[00:13:33] *** MaxLombardi [ten.tsacmoc.za.1dsh.299F18DF-CRInys|nnaMrD#ten.tsacmoc.za.1dsh.299F18DF-CRInys|nnaMrD] has quit [Connection reset by peer]
[00:13:37] *** MaxLombardi [ten.tsacmoc.za.1dsh.299F18DF-CRInys|nnaMrD#ten.tsacmoc.za.1dsh.299F18DF-CRInys|nnaMrD] has joined #site19
[00:13:45] *** MaxLombardi is now known as DrMann
[00:13:46] *** Nioki [~ten.eulbdliw.tsuc.070C028E-CRInys|alliztahc#ten.eulbdliw.tsuc.070C028E-CRInys|alliztahc] has quit [Client exited]
[00:13:47] < Az> syka
[00:13:51] *** mode/#site19 [+o DrMann] by ChanServ
[00:13:59] < Az> "If you don't understand starcraft off the bat, you should be kicked in the leg"
[00:14:03] < Az> do you see the problem here?
[00:14:08] < Syka> yes
[00:14:10] < Syka> wait
[00:14:10] < Syka> what
[00:14:16] < Az> le sigh
[00:14:20] < Syka> Blizzard games are unintuitive
[00:14:22] *** MisterFlames [~ten.tsacmoc.aw.1dsh.16251B5-CRInys|SD#ten.tsacmoc.aw.1dsh.16251B5-CRInys|SD] has quit [Connection reset by peer]
[00:14:22] < Az> does anyone else see what i'm referring to?
[00:14:24] < PaulS> The problem there is that you're assuming that SC and C&C are equal
[00:14:27] < PaulS> they are not.
[00:14:30] *** MisterFlames [~ten.tsacmoc.aw.1dsh.16251B5-CRInys|SD#ten.tsacmoc.aw.1dsh.16251B5-CRInys|SD] has joined #site19
[00:14:31] < Az> "EA games are unintuitive"
[00:14:40] < PaulS> Also, the better C&C's weren't EA
[00:14:41] < Syka> C&C plays like every RTS, as it is what every RTS was based off
[00:14:48] < Syka> Blizzard RTS's fuck this up
[00:14:54] < Az> Blizzard RTS's set teh stand
[00:14:57] < Az> standard*
[00:14:59] < Syka> ahahahaha
[00:15:03] < Az> you've missed my points for the most part though
[00:15:07] < Syka> because they haven't released one in 12 years
[00:15:08] < Gwendolyn> <.<
[00:15:12] < Syka> or 7 rather
[00:15:28] < Syka> 'cept SC2
[00:15:45] < Az> what i've done throughout the argument is draw parallels. What you've said for teh most part applies to both. What is "ridiculously easy" to you in C&C is the same for me in SC. You've said nothing that i cannot make a similar example of out of your C&C
[00:16:01] < Syka> Az: how many factions does SC have?
[00:16:04] < Az> have you ever heard of "arguing past people"
[00:16:08] *** Nioki [~ten.eulbdliw.tsuc.070C028E-CRInys|alliztahc#ten.eulbdliw.tsuc.070C028E-CRInys|alliztahc] has joined #site19
[00:16:09] < Syka> three, zerg human and protoss
[00:16:10] < Syka> right
[00:16:12] < PaulS> Az: drawing paralells doesn't work when you're comparing crap(SC) to a well done game(C&C)
[00:16:20] < Az> why do i bother?
[00:16:22] < Syka> well done games
[00:16:25] < Az> Logos is of no use clearly
[00:16:29] < PaulS> Az: because you don't want to back down
[00:16:31] < Syka> also, C&C wins on story alone
[00:16:49] < Syka> try and tell me C&C and RA's stories are bad
[00:16:50] < PaulS> Also, you can drop the ai of condescension. It won't earn you any credit
[00:16:57] < PaulS> *air
[00:17:04] * PaulS 's keyboard is dying
[00:17:05] < Az> story: opinion based
[00:17:10] < Syka> …
[00:17:11] < Syka> right
[00:17:35] < Syka> just because SC2 has a horrid flat story doesn't mean it's irrelevant
[00:17:41] < Syka> the story is half the game
[00:17:53] < Az> ok, paul and syka aside
[00:17:58] < Az> does anyone else understand what i've been trying to do?
[00:18:04] < Az> i'm not going crazy, right?
[00:18:15] < PaulS> Az: I fully understand what you're trying to do. You're just failing at it.
[00:18:16] < Gwendolyn> I haven't been paying attention really
[00:18:22] < Az> the idea of takign what they've said, and shown how it can just as easily be applied to C&C
[00:18:32] < Az> what am i doing paul
[00:18:39] < Gwendolyn> Because I think the whole argument, on both sides, is rather quite silly
[00:18:39] *** Soren [~moc.retrahc.im.ldla.pchd.2199AC36-CRInys|neroS#moc.retrahc.im.ldla.pchd.2199AC36-CRInys|neroS] has joined #site19
[00:18:47] < Syka> and besides
[00:18:52] < Syka> SC wouldn't be here without C&C
[00:19:07] *** pooryoric [ten.htuoslleb.bom.DA6A6AC3-CRInys|tibbiM#ten.htuoslleb.bom.DA6A6AC3-CRInys|tibbiM] has joined #site19
[00:19:08] < Az> probably gwendolyn, but i love to argue :D
[00:19:09] < Soren> So tired.
[00:19:12] < Soren> Too nervous to sleep.
[00:19:21] < Az> syak
[00:19:24] < Az> why do you say that
[00:19:29] < Az> SC wouldn't be here withou C&C
[00:20:09] < Richard> also, Az, Syka.
[00:20:14] < Richard> PRETENDY FUN TIME GAMES
[00:20:25] < Syka> wat
[00:20:29] <@Stephen> PRETENDY FUN TIME GAMES
[00:20:31] < Richard> PREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETEEEEEEEEEEEENDY. FUCKING. FUN. TIME. GAMES.
[00:20:32] < Az> still watiing syka :D
[00:20:40] < Richard> No one GIVES a shit.
[00:20:42] < PaulS> Two things Az: you're attempting to draw parallels in an attempt to show that Syka's arguments don't work. You're also adopting an ai of condecension(I know I spelled that wong, I cbf to look it up ight now, I'm tired as hell), that because you're inclined to use classic rhetorical methods you're somehow superior.
[00:20:43] < Syka> waht
[00:20:54] < Az> exactly :D
[00:21:00] < PaulS> Yoric: Ginger soda + pop rocks
[00:21:01] <@Tsubaki> Syka, PaulS, Az.
[00:21:02] <@Tsubaki> This.
[00:21:02] <@Tsubaki> Is.
[00:21:04] <@Tsubaki> Silly.
[00:21:14] < PaulS> Tsubaki: that's why I'm involved. Sillyness
[00:21:18] < Az> paul, to me someone speaking in a condescending tone does not matter, what matters is teh argument.
[00:21:23] < Richard> Yes. Everyone knows the greatest war game is chess.
[00:21:24] < Soren> Ginger Ale is good.
[00:21:27] <@Stephen> PRETENDY FUKKEN FUN TIME GAMES
[00:21:30] < Ashm> I agree with Tsubaki. It's been going on for the better part of an hour
[00:21:31] < Syka> Az: I should expand that to Westwood's games, actually
[00:21:33] <@Stephen> Richard: nerf the queen
[00:21:34] < Soren> Easy enough to make as well.
[00:21:35] < Az> I know i can be condescending, but thats besides the poitn and doesn't prove/disprove anything
[00:21:41] < PaulS> Az: condescension generally loses credibility.
[00:21:43] < Richard> Hm.
[00:21:44] < PaulS> rapidly
[00:21:45] < Syka> Westwood made the games that defined the RTS.
[00:21:48] < Richard> I think they aren't getting it.
[00:21:59] < PaulS> Yoric: try it. You'll see.
[00:22:04] < Az> credibility in convincing others, but with time logic wins out (unless people refuse logic)
[00:22:04] < Richard> BY THE POWER OF GREYSKULL.
[00:22:12] <%Gerald> THE WHEEL OF FATE IS TURNING
[00:22:13] < Az> i'm not trying to convince a crowd
[00:22:14] <%Gerald> REBEL 1
[00:22:16] <%Gerald> FIGHT
[00:22:22] < Az> i'm arguing my point versus yours
[00:22:29] <@Tsubaki> Gerald, Richard, you're not helping.
[00:22:30] < Az> thus credibility is not an issue
[00:22:34] <%Gerald> Sorry.
[00:22:36] <@Tsubaki> Also, everybody is wrong.
[00:22:43] < PaulS> Az: classic logic doesn't always "win", especially when it's being applied incorrectly
[00:22:44] <@Tsubaki> EVERYBODY IS WRONG, please drop it.
[00:22:53] < PaulS> Tsubaki: this includes you :P
[00:22:59] <@Tsubaki> I am well aware of this.
[00:23:00] < Az> ok paul, all of that aside, as it is irrelevant to the original argument
[00:23:04] < Syka> Az: Westwood Studios made Dune II, which actually coined the term RTS
[00:23:10] < Syka> kk Tsubaki
[00:23:17] < Az> i will agree that Dune 2 started the RTS genre for the most part
[00:23:24] < Az> but how is Dune 2 C&C
[00:23:25] < PaulS> You asked me what I thought you were doing. that's what I was responding to.
[00:23:26] < Syka> and who made Dune II?
[00:23:28] < Az> because pretty sure they aren't
[00:23:30] < Az> oh does that mean
[00:23:32] < Syka> Westwood Studios
[00:23:35] < Az> i can say diablo 2 and starraft 2 are teh same?
[00:23:37] < Syka> who made C&C?
[00:23:41] < Syka> Westwood.
[00:23:44] < Az> that is completely irrelevant
[00:23:56] < Az> ok
[00:23:58] < Az> lets assume you were right
[00:24:05] *** mode/#site19 [+b *!*Syk@*.wa.westnet.com.au] by Tsubaki
[00:24:06] < Az> so what if Starcraft wouldn't exist if not for C&C
[00:24:07] <%Gerald> Seriously, though, this argument is completely stupid.
[00:24:13] *** Syka was kicked from #site19 by Tsubaki [Come back in a few hours.]
[00:24:18] < Az> wut?
[00:24:18] < Ashm> Thank god.
[00:24:20] < Az> NO
[00:24:21] < Az> NOOO
[00:24:24] < Az> i was having fun :(
[00:24:27] *** mode/#site19 [+b *!*chatzilla@*.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] by Tsubaki
[00:24:36] *** Az was kicked from #site19 by Tsubaki [Same for you.]
[00:24:41] < Gwendolyn> Oh buuuurn
[00:24:44] < Gwendolyn> He got burned
[00:24:47] < Gwendolyn> Oooooh
[00:24:55] < Gwendolyn> >.>
[00:26:44] *** admiral-zombie [ten.dshqrabme.pchd.00A5C655-CRInys|tibbiM#ten.dshqrabme.pchd.00A5C655-CRInys|tibbiM] has joined #site19
[00:26:57] < admiral-zombie> tsubaki can i get an explanation for being banned without any specific warning?
[00:27:13] < admiral-zombie> i'm fine if the conversation is made private (i don't know how) but still would like some answers
[00:27:20] < Richard> ….
[00:27:25] <@Tsubaki> Because you guys would not shut up after I told you to drop it.
[00:27:25] <%Gerald> ……
[00:27:38] <@Stephen> …
[00:27:44] <%Gerald> Also, Ban evasion.
[00:27:50] <@Tsubaki> And yes, you're ban evading.
[00:27:59] < admiral-zombie> yeah i am >.< but i don't know how to ask questions otherwise
[00:28:04] <@Tsubaki> ….you PM me.
[00:28:08] < admiral-zombie> how?
[00:28:22] <@Tsubaki> Wikidot, or /msg.
[00:28:32] *** admiral-zombie was kicked from #site19 by Tsubaki [Go play leapfrog with a unicorn]
[00:29:18] < Gwendolyn> I really wanna go play starcraft but I don't want to feel like shit in the morning because I got no sleep
[00:29:32] < Gwendolyn> D:
[00:29:33] <~Paradox> then go to bed
[00:29:48] < Gwendolyn> I need to watch the hilarious base swap again
[00:29:52] < Gwendolyn> Then I will
[00:31:58] < Agasa> Gwendolyn,
[00:32:05] < Agasa> experiment a bed and some sleep.
[00:32:12] < Agasa> 3:30 AM is enough late.
[00:32:22] < Gwendolyn> Shh, watching base swap
[00:32:26] < Gwendolyn> And It's only 1:30 here
[00:32:57] < JonstaBarnes> Wow, I just came back to the saddest argument ever. :P
[00:33:47] < JonstaBarnes> Syk was whining to me about being banned for whatever her views were. I told her to shut up and go download TA XD
[00:33:55] *** Malachai [~ten.tsacmoc.aw.1dsh.AA8345A5-CRInys|xrehpyc#ten.tsacmoc.aw.1dsh.AA8345A5-CRInys|xrehpyc] has joined #site19
[00:34:01] <@Tsubaki> -This- ban?
[00:34:22] < Malachai> …? Ban? Huh?
[00:34:24] <@Tsubaki> No, the (temporary, I might add) ban is because she wouldn't drop the argument when I told her too.
[00:34:29] <@Tsubaki> *to
[00:34:50] < Agasa> -.-
[00:35:00] < Agasa> shall we just ALL TOGETHER stop drama?
[00:35:08] < JonstaBarnes> I like all three games :)
[00:35:10] <@Tsubaki> They didn't. Hence the ban.
[00:35:12] < Malachai> Who got banned, if you don't mind me asking? I wasn't here, so… XD
[00:35:21] < JonstaBarnes> Syk for drama llama.
[00:35:22] <@Tsubaki> Syka and Az, for a few hours.
Actual events leading up to the ban:
[00:20:09] < Richard> also, Az, Syka.
[00:20:14] < Richard> PRETENDY FUN TIME GAMES
[00:20:25] < Syka> wat
[00:20:29] <@Stephen> PRETENDY FUN TIME GAMES
[00:20:31] < Richard> PREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETEEEEEEEEEEEENDY. FUCKING. FUN. TIME. GAMES.
[00:20:32] < Az> still watiing syka :D
[00:20:40] < Richard> No one GIVES a shit.
[00:20:42] < PaulS> Two things Az: you're attempting to draw parallels in an attempt to show that Syka's arguments don't work. You're also adopting an ai of condecension(I know I spelled that wong, I cbf to look it up ight now, I'm tired as hell), that because you're inclined to use classic rhetorical methods you're somehow superior.
[00:20:43] < Syka> waht
[00:20:54] < Az> exactly :D
[00:21:00] < PaulS> Yoric: Ginger soda + pop rocks
[00:21:01] <@Tsubaki> Syka, PaulS, Az.
[00:21:02] <@Tsubaki> This.
[00:21:02] <@Tsubaki> Is.
[00:21:04] <@Tsubaki> Silly.
[00:21:14] < PaulS> Tsubaki: that's why I'm involved. Sillyness
[00:21:18] < Az> paul, to me someone speaking in a condescending tone does not matter, what matters is teh argument.
[00:21:23] < Richard> Yes. Everyone knows the greatest war game is chess.
[00:21:24] < Soren> Ginger Ale is good.
[00:21:27] <@Stephen> PRETENDY FUKKEN FUN TIME GAMES
[00:21:30] < Ashm> I agree with Tsubaki. It's been going on for the better part of an hour
[00:21:31] < Syka> Az: I should expand that to Westwood's games, actually
[00:21:33] <@Stephen> Richard: nerf the queen
[00:21:34] < Soren> Easy enough to make as well.
[00:21:35] < Az> I know i can be condescending, but thats besides the poitn and doesn't prove/disprove anything
[00:21:41] < PaulS> Az: condescension generally loses credibility.
[00:21:43] < Richard> Hm.
[00:21:44] < PaulS> rapidly
[00:21:45] < Syka> Westwood made the games that defined the RTS.
[00:21:48] < Richard> I think they aren't getting it.
[00:21:59] < PaulS> Yoric: try it. You'll see.
[00:22:04] < Az> credibility in convincing others, but with time logic wins out (unless people refuse logic)
[00:22:04] < Richard> BY THE POWER OF GREYSKULL.
[00:22:12] <%Gerald> THE WHEEL OF FATE IS TURNING
[00:22:13] < Az> i'm not trying to convince a crowd
[00:22:14] <%Gerald> REBEL 1
[00:22:16] <%Gerald> FIGHT
[00:22:22] < Az> i'm arguing my point versus yours
[00:22:29] <@Tsubaki> Gerald, Richard, you're not helping.
[00:22:30] < Az> thus credibility is not an issue
[00:22:34] <%Gerald> Sorry.
[00:22:36] <@Tsubaki> Also, everybody is wrong.
[00:22:43] < PaulS> Az: classic logic doesn't always "win", especially when it's being applied incorrectly
[00:22:44] <@Tsubaki> EVERYBODY IS WRONG, please drop it.
[00:22:53] < PaulS> Tsubaki: this includes you :P
[00:22:59] <@Tsubaki> I am well aware of this.
[00:23:00] < Az> ok paul, all of that aside, as it is irrelevant to the original argument
[00:23:04] < Syka> Az: Westwood Studios made Dune II, which actually coined the term RTS
[00:23:10] < Syka> kk Tsubaki
[00:23:17] < Az> i will agree that Dune 2 started the RTS genre for the most part
[00:23:24] < Az> but how is Dune 2 C&C
[00:23:25] < PaulS> You asked me what I thought you were doing. that's what I was responding to.
[00:23:26] < Syka> and who made Dune II?
[00:23:28] < Az> because pretty sure they aren't
[00:23:30] < Az> oh does that mean
[00:23:32] < Syka> Westwood Studios
[00:23:35] < Az> i can say diablo 2 and starraft 2 are teh same?
[00:23:37] < Syka> who made C&C?
[00:23:41] < Syka> Westwood.
[00:23:44] < Az> that is completely irrelevant
[00:23:56] < Az> ok
[00:23:58] < Az> lets assume you were right
[00:24:05] *** mode/#site19 [+b *!*Syk@*.wa.westnet.com.au] by Tsubaki
[00:24:06] < Az> so what if Starcraft wouldn't exist if not for C&C
[00:24:07] <%Gerald> Seriously, though, this argument is completely stupid.
[00:24:13] *** Syka was kicked from #site19 by Tsubaki [Come back in a few hours.]
[00:24:18] < Az> wut?
[00:24:18] < Ashm> Thank god.
[00:24:20] < Az> NO
[00:24:21] < Az> NOOO
[00:24:24] < Az> i was having fun :(
[00:24:27] *** mode/#site19 [+b *!*chatzilla@*.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] by Tsubaki
[00:24:36] *** Az was kicked from #site19 by Tsubaki [Same for you.]
[00:24:41] < Gwendolyn> Oh buuuurn
[00:24:44] < Gwendolyn> He got burned
[00:24:47] < Gwendolyn> Oooooh
[00:24:55] < Gwendolyn> >.>
[00:26:44] *** admiral-zombie [ten.dshqrabme.pchd.00A5C655-CRInys|tibbiM#ten.dshqrabme.pchd.00A5C655-CRInys|tibbiM] has joined #site19
[00:26:57] < admiral-zombie> tsubaki can i get an explanation for being banned without any specific warning?
[00:27:13] < admiral-zombie> i'm fine if the conversation is made private (i don't know how) but still would like some answers
[00:27:20] < Richard> ….
[00:27:25] <@Tsubaki> Because you guys would not shut up after I told you to drop it.
[00:27:25] <%Gerald> ……
[00:27:38] <@Stephen> …
[00:27:44] <%Gerald> Also, Ban evasion.
[00:27:50] <@Tsubaki> And yes, you're ban evading.
[00:27:59] < admiral-zombie> yeah i am >.< but i don't know how to ask questions otherwise
[00:28:04] <@Tsubaki> ….you PM me.
[00:28:08] < admiral-zombie> how?
[00:28:22] <@Tsubaki> Wikidot, or /msg.
[00:28:32] *** admiral-zombie was kicked from #site19 by Tsubaki [Go play leapfrog with a unicorn]
[00:29:18] < Gwendolyn> I really wanna go play starcraft but I don't want to feel like shit in the morning because I got no sleep
[00:29:32] < Gwendolyn> D:
[00:29:33] <~Paradox> then go to bed
[00:29:48] < Gwendolyn> I need to watch the hilarious base swap again
[00:29:52] < Gwendolyn> Then I will
[00:31:58] < Agasa> Gwendolyn,
[00:32:05] < Agasa> experiment a bed and some sleep.
[00:32:12] < Agasa> 3:30 AM is enough late.
[00:32:22] < Gwendolyn> Shh, watching base swap
[00:32:26] < Gwendolyn> And It's only 1:30 here
[00:32:57] < JonstaBarnes> Wow, I just came back to the saddest argument ever. :P
[00:33:47] < JonstaBarnes> Syk was whining to me about being banned for whatever her views were. I told her to shut up and go download TA XD
[00:33:55] *** Malachai [~ten.tsacmoc.aw.1dsh.AA8345A5-CRInys|xrehpyc#ten.tsacmoc.aw.1dsh.AA8345A5-CRInys|xrehpyc] has joined #site19
[00:34:01] <@Tsubaki> -This- ban?
[00:34:22] < Malachai> …? Ban? Huh?
[00:34:24] <@Tsubaki> No, the (temporary, I might add) ban is because she wouldn't drop the argument when I told her too.
[00:34:29] <@Tsubaki> *to
[00:34:50] < Agasa> -.-
[00:35:00] < Agasa> shall we just ALL TOGETHER stop drama?
[00:35:08] < JonstaBarnes> I like all three games :)
[00:35:10] <@Tsubaki> They didn't. Hence the ban.
[00:35:12] < Malachai> Who got banned, if you don't mind me asking? I wasn't here, so… XD
[00:35:21] < JonstaBarnes> Syk for drama llama.
[00:35:22] <@Tsubaki> Syka and Az, for a few hours.
tl;dr - Syka orgasmed over C&C3, PaulS states C&C > Starcraft, Az the professional debater got angry and tried to argue that C&C was no different from Starcraft, and then all three fanboy-raged against each other in anger for almost an hour.
I like how Az evaded the ban by switching from Chatzilla to Mibbit because Break specifically banned the Chatzilla user agent when booting him and yet didn't know how to contact Break through PM. ADMIRAL_ZOMBIE
I gave Az the benefit of the doubt, and didn't extend his punishment for ban evasion. He did just want to get things cleared up, which is reasonable.
The log does bring up a point:
When people are playing silly buggers, and someone is trying to calm them down/make them stop/whatever, it is IMPERATIVE that other Senior staff back them up, not egg the trouble makers on.
If people wanna hang out more in #site17 to toss off stuff like that, it could help.
Admin, SCP Wiki