Today in staff chat, we started talking about the powers afforded to Junior Staff and whether or not they should be granted new powers. While the possibility of staff reorganization came up, all staff present - a mix of OS, mods, and admins - were able to universally agree on two major things:
1. Junior Staff should be able to vote on deletion votes (but not start them).
2. Team Captains or other Senior Staff should be able to deputize Junior Staff for brief moments at their discretion to carry out actions like summary deletion.
Please discuss, weigh in, and mention anything I forgot or correct me.
•Tuomey> I've been slacking in other areas due to real life stuff
4:57 PM <•Tuomey> but I can toss deletion votes and edit away bullshit from collabs p handy
4:57 PM <•Dexanote> the idea is that people who cannot usually help elsewhere can contribute with the basic day to day of the site
4:58 PM <•Tuomey> so mark me down as a volunteer when this gets going
4:58 PM <•Dexanote> Its not a difficult team
4:58 PM <•Dexanote> this isn't licensing or CO
4:58 PM <ChaoSera> Dexanote, Count me in
4:58 PM <•Tuomey> yeah that's why I'm volunteering
4:58 PM <•Tuomey> a man must know his limitations
4:58 PM <•Dexanote> But its stuff thats gotta get done and so far is basically "Zyn and whoever Zyn throws a fishing hook into"
4:58 PM <•Gaffsey> Dex is it possible for non mods to edit locked pages?
4:58 PM <•Tuomey> and mine are apparently "basic tasks"
4:58 PM <AbsentmindedNihilist> am all for
4:58 PM <AbsentmindedNihilist> will join
4:58 PM <•Dexanote> Gaffsey, no AFAIK
4:58 PM <•Tuomey> Gaffsey: if it's their own page I believe
4:58 PM <•Gaffsey> kk
4:58 PM <•Tuomey> short of that, no
4:58 PM <•Vince> .seen decibelle
4:58 PM <•jarvis> vince: I last saw decibelle 12 hours ago saying: night!
4:58 PM <•Dexanote> I don't see custodial being a really heavy and big team
4:59 PM <•Gaffsey> Then a lot of the duties seem like ones that are mod-intensive
4:59 PM <•Dexanote> It'd probably be bigger than harassment but smaller than wikiwalk
4:59 PM <•Gaffsey> but overall yes, good idea
4:59 PM <•Cimmerian> Dexanote: http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-2244178/proposal-custodial-team#post-2800567
4:59 PM <•Dexanote> Mmm.
4:59 PM <•Dexanote> Yeah you're right
4:59 PM <•Gaffsey> and similarly, not much room for JS
4:59 PM <•Tuomey> that could be an issue yeah
4:59 PM <•Gaffsey> again, good idea. just stuff to consider
5:00 PM <•Dexanote> Mmm
5:01 PM <•Cimmerian> I tell you, not to overcomplicate but we might ought to think about a position between JS and OP Staff. Promoting people to that at first, and widening their responsibilities before op staff would be a good check. Basically having a position like Jr. Staff used to be.
5:01 PM <ChaoSera> What would that accomplish Cimm
5:01 PM <ChaoSera> Sounds like more beurocracy to me
5:01 PM <•Gaffsey> ^
5:01 PM <•Tuomey> yeah like
5:02 PM <•Dexanote> I can see where he's coming from.
5:02 PM <•Cimmerian> There's a lot of stuff we can't delegate to *all* Jr. Staff, but a handful of folk we could see doing actual work.
5:02 PM <•Cimmerian> perhaps in the vein of this custodial team then?
5:02 PM <•Tuomey> I mean
5:02 PM <•Tuomey> that's why we have them on specific teams, right?
5:02 PM <•Cimmerian> Jr. Staffers on this team could possibly be empowered to do the things we count on op staff to do?
5:02 PM <•ARD> I don't want MORE levels between junior and operational staff
5:02 PM <•Cimmerian> the random shit?
5:03 PM <•ARD> That just means more bureaucracy, more promotions, and more people getting passed over
5:03 PM <•Tuomey> I thought team captains could tell people to do shit above their level when necessary
5:03 PM <•ARD> ^
5:03 PM <•ARD> We literally just saw EldritchCadence deputize Subtletea to ban a user in chat
5:03 PM <•Tuomey> Was that not how we were supposed to be operating?
5:03 PM ⇐ •anqxyr quit (~PI.02434938.20257DAA.DF35FB17|ryxqna#PI.02434938.20257DAA.DF35FB17|ryxqna) Ping timeout: 183 seconds
5:03 PM <•Cimmerian> A lot of stuff explicitly requires someone at a particular level
5:03 PM <•Cimmerian> well
5:03 PM <•Cimmerian> some stuff
5:03 PM <•Tuomey> Well
5:04 PM <•Cimmerian> Jr. Staff can't vote on deletions, can't do images enforcement…
5:04 PM <ChaoSera> IMO it would be more prudent to take another look at what exactly can and can't be done by JS
5:04 PM <AbsentmindedNihilist> ^
5:04 PM <•Tuomey> I'd suggest changing the relevant stuff to "op staff or jr staff when tasked with it" or some similar
5:04 PM <•Cimmerian> if we put together a custodial team, having the Jr. Staff able to do that…
5:04 PM <ChaoSera> Like, for instance, witnessing for summary deletions
5:04 PM <•Tuomey> rather than inserting another layer
5:04 PM <AbsentmindedNihilist> yeah
5:04 PM <•ARD> Agreed
5:04 PM <EldritchCadence> Pinged
5:04 PM <EldritchCadence> Oh, yep, I did that
5:04 PM <•ARD> I think we need to re-evaluate the powers of Junior Staff
5:04 PM <•Tuomey> Like, I see what you're getting at
5:04 PM <AbsentmindedNihilist> jr staff should be able to witness for summ. deletions, i think
5:04 PM <•Gaffsey> yeah, JR staff should be available for deletions (summary at least)
5:04 PM <AbsentmindedNihilist> and vote on deletions, though not start them
5:04 PM <•Cimmerian> Can they?
5:04 PM <•Tuomey> But I feel like more layers of staff is not a good way to fix this
5:04 PM <AbsentmindedNihilist> yeah
5:04 PM <•Gaffsey> cimmerian it is a mystery
5:05 PM <•ARD> More layers of staff is a terrible way to fix it
5:05 PM <•Dexanote> okay like
5:05 PM <EldritchCadence> I think they can actually vote on deletions
5:05 PM <•ARD> We should not be abstracting our staff more
5:05 PM <•Dexanote> OS is what JS used to be
5:05 PM <Solo> I'm all for JS on a particular team being given more ability/responsibility, but seconding wariness about adding more tiers
5:05 PM <•Cimmerian> Hey, guys, I concede that point. ;)
5:05 PM <•Dexanote> JS is a cadet/internship deal
5:05 PM <•Dexanote> prove worth
5:05 PM <•Gaffsey> I've held off because I didn't want to get yelled for improper summary
5:05 PM <AbsentmindedNihilist> EC we cannot
5:05 PM <•Dexanote> Its not meant to be super heavy
5:05 PM <•Cimmerian> I'm the only one who suggested it and I agree with you.
5:05 PM <•ARD> We should evaluate the levels we currently have and determine how their powers need to be changed
5:05 PM <EldritchCadence> AbsentmindedNihilist: Weird as hell
5:05 PM <ChaoSera> ARD, seconding that
5:06 PM <Solo> EldritchCadence: that was one of the things that got changed during the last reorg, iirc
5:06 PM LilyAFK → Lily
5:06 PM <EldritchCadence> Ahhh, that explains it
5:06 PM <Lily> wow, convo
5:07 PM <•Cimmerian> Dexanote: I'm talking about day to day images enforcement for sourcing your images.
5:07 PM <•Tuomey> Dexanote: this is true and that might make custodial team unsuitable for JS as a whole
5:07 PM <•ARD> The way I see it, there are two big things we need to fix
5:07 PM <•Cimmerian> in your thread
5:07 PM <•Tuomey> Dexanote: since it would require people to have proven a degree of responsibility previously
5:07 PM <•ARD> We need to update our guides and we need to reorganize staff powers
5:07 PM <Lily> Personally I think JS is fine as it is
5:07 PM <•Cimmerian> which is, right now, just an op staff thing. And I don't know if anyone's started doing it in the last few days but I've done 90% of those.
5:07 PM <Lily> With maybe the caveat of allowing them to witness summary deletions
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5:08 PM <Lily> Since… that kinda occurs already
5:08 PM → •Silberescher (promoted to admin, opped) joined
5:08 PM <ChaoSera> I think JS should definitely allowed to witness for summary deletion
5:08 PM Silberescher → •Silber
5:08 PM <•ARD> absolutely
5:08 PM <Lily> Also;
5:08 PM <Lily> If a custodial team is formed, staff not on it will still be able to do such duties, yes?
5:08 PM <Lily> I see no reason otherwise
5:09 PM <•Tuomey> I'm gonna get my voice behind "Jr staff may take on certain Op staff responsibilities when team responsibilities require it or when specifically instructed by their team captain/supervisor"
5:09 PM <ChaoSera> I don't know how many times in the last few weeks I fetched a mod/admin for some post in the 3k range and they then had to wait for some OS to be available for witnessing
5:09 PM <ChaoSera> That's just silly
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5:09 PM <•ARD> I think we can all agree on two things right now - we should be able to deputize Junior Staff for brief periods when necessary and Junior Staff need to be able to vote on deletions
5:10 PM <AbsentmindedNihilist> yes
5:10 PM <•Gaffsey> yeppers
5:10 PM <•ARD> Ok
5:10 PM <•Cimmerian> Tuomey: I am also in agreement with that, and then we can have a proper "custodial team" as well with Jr. Staffers empowered to do stuff on the list.
5:10 PM <AbsentmindedNihilist> want me to make a thread for this?
5:10 PM <•ARD> I'll make an 05 post