Just logging for logging purposes, Chimera was kicked today after using autism as an insult.
~🌸~Flower Power~🌸~
Just logging for logging purposes, Chimera was kicked today after using autism as an insult.
17:40:55 <Chimera> my art looks like an autistic toddler on MS paint
17:41:01 <Chimera> so yeah, that's not shit
17:41:05 <Chimera> you want to see shit
17:41:05 <Overandover> …
17:41:08 <Chimera> you look at my art
17:41:11 <Overandover> um
17:41:15 <ghostpage> ops
17:41:23 ← Chimera was kicked by %Lily: not cool
17:41:31 <ghostpage> Thanks lil
17:41:42 → salamander724, Aurora and JaneRand joined
17:41:52 <Overandover> Chimera I'd advise you not to say autistic in a derogative way
17:41:55 <Overandover> … damm
17:41:59 <ghostpage> Petition for people to stop using autistic as a negative adjective 2k17
17:42:07 <subtletea> ^
17:42:07 → Chimera joined (~gniriseD.ehT.roF.htaeD.oN|egabraG#gniriseD.ehT.roF.htaeD.oN|egabraG)
17:42:12 <ghostpage> Make it a positive adjective 2k17
17:42:35 <subtletea> I just walked like 30 blocks there and back to find a store that sells Cadbury Mini Eggs
17:42:37 <%Lily> Chimera: don't use autism as some sort of negative thing
~🌸~Flower Power~🌸~
Kicked again today for disobeying an op order, after a long discussion where he refused to accept that using gay as a negative is homophobic.
18:07:25 <DrMagnus> What tuomey said. Reddit is like…4chan and facebook had a child.
18:07:33 <DrMagnus> DolphinSlugchugger: Ken onion is GOAT, confirmed
18:07:40 <Chimera> But reddit is good though
18:07:51 <Chimera> …usually
18:07:57 <Witryso> I honestly didn't expect my skip to be so well-received.
18:07:58 <Chimera> It keeps the trash in specific subs
18:08:00 <@Tuomey> Esheter: I'm not actually sure
18:08:09 <Lux> reddit's the entire internet in miniature
18:08:14 <DrMagnus> Reddit, on the whole, is pretty terrible, socially.
18:08:24 <Chimera> Eh, better than Tumblr/Facebook at least.
18:08:25 <DrMagnus> Soooo much casual racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc
18:08:29 <@Tuomey> lads if someone was to post pictures for SCP use on the forums
18:08:32 <@Tuomey> what subforum
18:08:39 <Chimera> DrMagnus where?
18:08:43 <DrMagnus> Chimera: ….everywhere?
18:08:45 <Chimera> Because if you're seeing that you're in the trash subs
18:08:45 <Chimera> No
18:08:50 <DrMagnus> Even in the default subs, and regular subs.
18:08:58 <Chimera> I've literally only seen that on the "trash subs" like r/incels
18:09:18 <Chimera> If it was on a default sub it would have been removed.
18:09:24 <DrMagnus> Yeah, no.
18:09:33 <@Tuomey> I've seen it on the few times I've ventured onto reddit for, like, games advice and big askreddit threads and such
18:09:35 <Chimera> Okay, link me to something that's just that terrible
18:09:40 <DrMagnus> Most subs have nothing against using slurs, at all.
18:09:50 <DrMagnus> Chimera: What like, right this second?
18:09:51 <Chimera> Slurs? What
18:10:02 <Chimera> I mean if you're saying reddit as a whole is terrible, and I haven't seen it
18:10:04 <DrMagnus> Chimera: How many times have you see someone say something is "r*ed" on reddit
18:10:06 <Chimera> Then i'd like to see what you're saying
18:10:08 <DrMagnus> On a default sub
18:10:14 <DrMagnus> 'cause you KNOW that happens all the time.
18:10:15 <Chimera> That's…not a slur?
18:10:21 <Chimera> How is that offensive
18:10:23 <@Tuomey> Esheter: I'm not sure where tbh, and I think visual records is still a mess so
18:10:24 <@Tuomey> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
18:10:29 <DrMagnus> YOu don't think a slur for mntally handicapped people, is a slur?
18:10:39 <DrMagnus> When used as an insult in the general sense?
18:10:49 <Chimera> It has different meaning. It's like saying "that's gay" nowawadys.
18:11:00 <DrMagnus> Except, not in the slightest.
18:11:01 <Chimera> People say it, but not in the same sense.
18:11:04 <Lux> that's gay died in 2012
18:11:08 <Chimera> Ever seen that one south park episode
18:11:18 <BlackWing> :|
18:11:26 <DrMagnus> Using "Gay" or r-slurs as insults is 1) Insulting to people who are in those marginalzed groups and 2) Saying it's not a big deal, if you don't fall in to them, is *bananas* disingenuous
18:11:29 <Lux> yes but south park is south park it's in a certain context
18:11:31 <@Tuomey> Chimera: it's very similar, you're right - "that's gay" is indeed homophobic
18:11:34 <BlackWing> The moment you bring up South Park as a defense, you automatically lose
18:11:52 <ghostpage> Chimera, using gay as a negative adjective is very homophobic
18:11:53 <Lux> i mean i love that shit but it's meant to be offensive
18:11:56 <Chimera> It isn't INTENDED to be homophobic though.
18:12:00 <%Lily> Chimera: saying "that's gay" if, y'know, you're not gay is uh, shitty
18:12:03 <%Lily> It is tho
18:12:07 <Chimera> Nope
18:12:12 <%Lily> Because it's used as "gay = bad"
18:12:12 ⇐ Lander quit (~reppiks.kcor|lleva#reppiks.kcor|lleva) Connection reset by peer
18:12:15 <%Lily> Which is homophobic
18:12:17 <DrMagnus> Chimera: Who cares if you intend it to be? How do you think it makes someone who is gay, feel?
18:12:23 <%Lily> Like… there'e no argument to be had over that
18:12:25 <Sterbai> "that's gay" is such a yr 7 insult which I've never seen anyone use over the age of like 11
18:12:33 <DrMagnus> *Your* intent doesn't matter. What matters, is how the people around you hear it, and how it affects others.
18:12:34 <Chimera> Again, it was an example
18:12:39 <%Lily> Using gay as a way of saying something is negative? That's homophobic
18:12:47 <Chimera> But if you're constantly offended by everything you see, then yes, reddit is "bad".
18:12:48 <Witryso> In my friend group, 'that's gay' is actually a compliment.
18:12:52 <%Lily> Likewise, the r-slur is ableist and very bad
18:13:06 <ghostpage> Chimera, gay is either good or neutral. Using is as a negative makes you a homophobe, and changing your behaviour accordingly will make you not homophobic in that manner
18:13:14 <%Lily> Witryso: mine too, since most of my close friends are gay, but outside of that it's not good to use
18:13:18 <DrMagnus> Chimera: I'm not offended by everythign I see. I *am* offended by people using slurs for marginalized groups as general-purpose insults, then saying 'It's no big deal' when they're not in those margialized groups
18:13:32 <Chimera> So yeah, offended by things that aren't meant to be offensive
18:13:35 <Chimera> You take it the wrong way.
18:13:43 <%Lily> No
18:13:46 <TheTellmen> I guess the closest thing I get to a slur is "stupid".
18:13:47 <Chimera> Being offended doesn't mean you're right, you know.
18:13:49 <%Lily> It /is/ offensive
18:13:57 <@Tuomey> Chimera: so hang on
18:14:01 <@Tuomey> if someone uses gay to mean bad
18:14:04 <%Lily> It is used in a deliberately offensive way
18:14:05 <@Tuomey> they don't mean gay is bad?
18:14:08 <Chimera> No
18:14:12 <TheTellmen> But that's not really a slur.
18:14:12 <DrMagnus> Chimera, you don't have the right to tell people who are gay, whether or not calling something is gay is homophobic.
18:14:21 <TheTellmen> At least that's not what I know.
18:14:32 <DrMagnus> People in groups of power and privledge do /not/ get to tell people who are marginalized what is and isn't okay to be offended by.
18:14:33 <ghostpage> Chimera, that's not how offense works. You are being offensive; stop defending yourself, accept you are being offensive, and move on. Covering your ass makes it worse :|
18:14:43 <TheTellmen> I don't call things "gay" unless it's the right context.
18:14:44 <DrMagnus> That's like *bananas* classic arguments with regards to racist crap too
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18:14:50 <Avocadonut> oye
18:14:52 <Chimera> My god, this is ridiculous.
18:14:58 <TheTellmen> In fact, I only use it for people.
18:14:59 <@Dora> Chimera question: does that mean someone who committed vehicular manslaughter should be off the hook because they didn't /intent/ to hurt anyone?
18:15:00 <TheTellmen> Not things.
18:15:01 <ghostpage> Using gay, autistic, or whatever, as a negative adjective, is shitty to those people, and you /should/ feel shitty
18:15:06 <DrMagnus> No, you're being confronted by people who don't accept something you think is okay. This isn't rediculous.
18:15:08 <Chimera> Dora, no, because they actually HURT someone
18:15:13 <Chimera> Rather than just "offend" them.
18:15:19 <TheTellmen> What if I have the privilege to say a word, though?
18:15:19 <DrMagnus> Chimera: And you think words don't hurt people?!
18:15:21 <%Lily> Chimera: it is better to apologise than to carry on digging a hole for yourself
18:15:24 <Chimera> I can be offended all I want by people who say i'm not right
18:15:29 <ghostpage> Chimera, I am gay and you equating my identity to negative things hurts me. Fuck off.
18:15:35 <TheTellmen> What if I have Asperger's?
18:15:38 <DrMagnus> You think being told "Don't get upset when I call something gay" if you're gay, doesn't hurt?
18:15:41 <Chimera> ghostpage, i'm the same.
18:15:42 <Chimera> So.
18:15:47 <Chimera> I just choose to accept terms change.
18:15:47 <ghostpage> TheTellmen, it's not a free pass
18:16:05 <TheTellmen> I guess it could make other people feel bad.
18:16:06 <Chimera> When someone says "that's gay", they don't mean "wow I hate gay people let's equate them to that"
18:16:11 <ghostpage> Chimera, /my identity is not negative/ holy shit
18:16:11 ⇐ Witryso quit (ten.labolgcbs.omslts.deepsthgil.64C3E62E-CRInys|tibbiM#ten.labolgcbs.omslts.deepsthgil.64C3E62E-CRInys|tibbiM) Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client
18:16:16 <Sterbai> I do think intent has to be acknowledged
18:16:17 <DrMagnus> Chimera: Except, that's exactly what message it sends!
18:16:31 <Chimera> Right, but the difference is that's what you see, not what the message meant.
18:16:40 <DrMagnus> Chimera: It doesn't matter what you mean.t
18:16:48 <Chimera> It does matter.
18:16:50 <DrMagnus> Intent, thought, none of these matter. What matters is what you /do/
18:16:52 <Sterbai> to be fair it does
18:16:54 <@Tuomey> it's almost like words have meanings
18:16:58 <ghostpage> Chimera, the effect is the same - beating someone over the head isn't different if done in hot or cold blood
18:17:06 <Sterbai> but I have to go
18:17:08 <Chimera> ghostpage, again, that's physically hurting someone.
18:17:09 <DrMagnus> No one gives a fuck if you had the best intention when you called someone a slur. YOu still called someone a slur!
18:17:09 <%Lily> Chimera: intention does not always matter- if I did not intend to hurt someone by calling them a slur and they are hurt, it is still my fault
18:17:09 ⇐ Sterbai quit (PI.4704A4A8.DF8D6DD3.EFE3F7DF|tibbiM#PI.4704A4A8.DF8D6DD3.EFE3F7DF|tibbiM) Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client
18:17:25 <ghostpage> Chimera, emotions can be hurt. People like you make me scared to be myself.
18:17:35 <Chimera> Yeah and people like you make me scared to go outside.
18:17:42 <BlackWing> Chimera: You just can't call something you don't like gay. If you won't accept that it is seen as insulting and offensive, then think of it as just being lazy and non-creative at disliking something.
18:17:44 <ghostpage> Chimera, die in your basement then :D
18:17:46 <TheTellmen> Alright, this is going downhill.
18:17:50 <DrMagnus> Chimera: Oh, now you're going to play the victimized majority card?
18:17:52 <Chimera> I don't really have a basement, sorry.
18:18:04 <@Tuomey> ghostpage: too far
18:18:07 <@Dora> 03:18 ghostpage Chimera, die in your basement then
18:18:07 ⇐ SGD quit (ten.labolgcbs.nidnbs.deepsthgil.45C4E45F-CRInys|tibbiM#ten.labolgcbs.nidnbs.deepsthgil.45C4E45F-CRInys|tibbiM) Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client
18:18:11 <@Dora> plz don't say that
18:18:14 <ghostpage> Tuomey, I know.
18:18:16 <Chimera> I would if I could though
18:18:17 <Chimera> Trust me.
18:18:18 <TheTellmen> Like I said.
18:18:25 <Lux> not an op but i think we need a bit of a topic change
18:18:25 <TheTellmen> This is going downhill.
18:18:35 <%Lily> yeah
18:18:39 <%Lily> let's move on
18:18:39 <Lux> .gis poodle moth
18:18:40 <DrMagnus> Oh please. Grow up. Just becuase you don't get to use "gay" and "red" as insults anymore, don't act like anyone's stepping on your freedoms
18:18:41 <%jarvis> lux: [1/10] Venezuelan Poodle Moth - http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/graphics/vpm.jpg
18:18:47 <%Lily> op order
18:18:49 <Lux> FUCK JARVIS THAT'S THE FAKE MOTH
18:18:52 <DrMagnus> o7
18:18:58 <Chimera> But again. The "real world" is different than online. If you're suddenly extremely angry at someone for using the word "gay" and then tell them to die in a basement
18:19:10 Channel mode set to +m by %Lily
18:19:10 <@Tuomey> Chimera: did you not see the op order
18:19:13 ← Chimera was kicked by @Dora: op order
18:19:15 <%Lily> When I say move on
18:19:17 → Chimera joined (~gniriseD.ehT.roF.htaeD.oN|egabraG#gniriseD.ehT.roF.htaeD.oN|egabraG)
18:19:17 <%Lily> I mean it
18:19:23 Soulless → &Soulless|Grocer
18:19:27 <%Lily> I don't mean get the last word in
18:19:33 Channel mode set to -m by %Lily
~🌸~Flower Power~🌸~
18:57 | PotatoPerson | I just made a tumblr and I have no idea how this thing works |
---|---|---|
18:58 | Chimera | PotatoPerson RIP |
18:59 | Chimera | I regret making a tumblr account, but it's neccessary for looking at things I like. The community is terrible though, I think 4chan is better |
18:59 | * Gishface joined #site19 ~PI.4602F196.DCF3704D.CB6CB724|alliztahc#PI.4602F196.DCF3704D.CB6CB724|alliztahc | |
19:00 | PotatoPerson | Ive never been on 4chan and from what Ive heard I hope to never be on 4chan |
19:00 | Chimera | Yeah it's pretty bad |
19:00 | Lux | i'm banned from 4chan |
19:00 | Chimera | Some of it isn't as terrible though. |
19:00 | Chimera | But still, beats tumblr community any day |
19:00 | PotatoPerson | Lux How did you get banned from 4chan? |
19:00 | Tuomey | yeah the tumblr staff won't do anything about neonazis it fucking sucks |
19:01 | AbsentmindedNihilist | it's the fucking worst |
19:01 | Lux | PotatoPerson: I have no idea but my fucking ip is blocked lmao |
19:01 | Chimera | Neonazis weren't the problem I had on tumblr |
19:01 | Chimera | Lux what did you even do |
19:01 | Chimera | also, use TOR |
19:01 | Lux | apparently cyan is banned too so maybe it's just my entire fucking state |
19:02 | Chimera | I don't think it would ban an entire state |
19:02 | * GibberingEloquence quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) PI.E05DC074.D0C83DF9.74FC9DB6|tibbiM#PI.E05DC074.D0C83DF9.74FC9DB6|tibbiM | |
19:02 | tahunu | ideal outcome; everybody is banned from 4chan |
19:02 | Chimera | Did you ever even post on 4chan |
19:03 | tahunu | and it dies |
19:03 | tahunu | :| |
19:03 | Chimera | ideal outcome: 4chan, tumblr, and facebook die |
19:03 | ghostpage | Tahunu, then they all go other places and everything is shit |
19:03 | LilyAFK | Neo-nazis are by far the worst part of tumblr |
19:03 | * GibberingEloquence joined #site19 PI.E05DC074.D0C83DF9.74FC9DB6|tibbiM#PI.E05DC074.D0C83DF9.74FC9DB6|tibbiM | |
19:03 | LilyAFK | or any social media |
19:03 | PotatoPerson | ideal outcome: all social media dies |
19:03 | ghostpage | Idk, tumblr /can/ do good things |
19:03 | Chimera | Can |
19:03 | Chimera | But rarely |
19:03 | Chimera | I literally open it to check a blog I follow (mcmansionhell) and get bombarded with trash |
19:04 | ghostpage | I mean, the LGBT community there was very enlightening when I first was figuring out I wasn't a cishet |
19:04 | * Scented_Shadow quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) ln.oggiz.cimanyd.b2-7-mc.8BB7A4CB-CRInys|tibbiM#ln.oggiz.cimanyd.b2-7-mc.8BB7A4CB-CRInys|tibbiM | |
19:04 | Chimera | …cishet? |
19:04 | ghostpage | Cisgender heterosexual |
19:04 | ghostpage | Which I am not :P |
19:04 | * War is now known as KathsAFK | |
19:04 | * qntm joined #site19 PI.02B533DC.2E13DE3F.A497A754|tibbiM#PI.02B533DC.2E13DE3F.A497A754|tibbiM | |
19:04 | AbsentmindedNihilist | tumblr's fine, honestly |
19:05 | AbsentmindedNihilist | people flip out over it |
19:05 | AbsentmindedNihilist | but like |
19:05 | Dora | I mean, the list of what can be morally more repungent than Nazi ideology that I can think of is… hmm |
19:05 | tahunu | ghostpage: oh hey yeah i wanted to check, hows the arts going? |
19:05 | * LordStonefish joined #site19 layor.hsif.enots|kcidydniw#layor.hsif.enots|kcidydniw | |
19:05 | Dora | not a long list, I suppose? |
19:05 | AbsentmindedNihilist | most of the time it's like "does this affect you personally?" "not at all, actually!!!" |
19:05 | ghostpage | tahunu, slow, sorry ;; |
19:05 | AbsentmindedNihilist | except the neonazi thing |
19:05 | AbsentmindedNihilist | which is a big issue |
19:05 | Chimera | I haven't seen many neonazis at all |
19:05 | AbsentmindedNihilist | they're all over the place lately :/ |
19:05 | LilyAFK | There's lots |
19:05 | LordStonefish | In here? |
19:05 | ghostpage | Tumblr and twitter both have large nazi presences |
19:06 | PotatoPerson | LordStonefish: No, tmblr |
19:06 | LilyAFK | LordStonefish: tumblr |
19:06 | PotatoPerson | tumblr |
19:06 | LordStonefish | Oh I see |
19:06 | tahunu | ghostpage: slow is cool, if youre needin to prioritise other things, no hurry (and if i ask too frequently/feels like pressurin you, just say) |
19:07 | Chimera | Like, are we talking about actual nazis, or SJWs? |
19:07 | LilyAFK | Chimera: nazis |
19:07 | Solo | and david "first ammendment" karp refuses to do anything about it |
19:07 | Solo | coward |
19:07 | Chimera | Haven't seen those, nope |
19:07 | LilyAFK | Chimera: sjws are not nazis by any means |
19:07 | LilyAFK | Chimera: don't even compare them |
19:07 | SpookyBee sneezes | |
19:07 | ghostpage | Chimera, SJWs and nazis are… opposites |
19:07 | SpookyBee | hi there |
19:07 | SpookyBee | it's me |
19:07 | PotatoPerson | Arent they like anti-nazis? |
19:07 | AbsentmindedNihilist | yes |
19:07 | SpookyBee | Scarce here |
19:07 | ghostpage | Yeah |
19:07 | Chimera | Yeah but they're extremist to the point that they're just as bad |
19:07 | LilyAFK | Chimera: no |
19:07 | Solo | for fucks sake dude |
19:07 | Silber | nazis and SJWs are basically the same thing. ethnic cleansing and not ethnic cleansing are next to each other on the horseshoe of politics |
19:07 | AbsentmindedNihilist | chimera notttt really. |
19:07 | Solo | jesus fucking christ |
19:07 | LilyAFK | Chimera: no not at all |
19:07 | Dora | Chimera [citation needed] |
19:08 | tahunu stares at Chimera | |
19:08 | Chimera | What? |
19:08 | Solo | youre wrong is what |
19:08 | Solo | like the wrongest |
19:08 | Silber | if you kill minorities or be nice to minorities then those are both extremes |
19:08 | ghostpage | is wanting equality nazism now, or |
19:08 | Dora | I mean, saying so-and-so people are as bad as Nazis is a pretty serious charges |
19:08 | Silber | the reasonable moderates are just casually racist to them |
19:08 | AbsentmindedNihilist | chimera chat staff speaking let's not equate people who want equality |
19:08 | Dora | which would require serious evidence to back it up |
19:08 | Gishface | I think Nazis are just as bad as Nazis |
19:08 | LilyAFK | Chimera: how is "kill everyone who is not white" the same as "treat people fairly" |
19:08 | Chimera | AbsentmindedNihilist: I have no idea what you mean by that |
19:08 | tahunu | yknow |
19:08 | AbsentmindedNihilist | chimera to people who follow an ideology responsible for a genocide |
19:08 | Chimera | Lily, i've literally seen so much reverse-racism it's ridiculous |
19:09 | tahunu | sometimes i wonder why i dont come in here so much |
19:09 | Solo | incredible |
19:09 | tahunu | then i remember |
19:09 | Chimera | Hating white people because they're white is still racism. |
19:09 | Solo | tahunu: run while you can |
19:09 | AbsentmindedNihilist | chimera reverse racism is not a phenomenon that exists. |
19:09 | Solo | racism is structural |
19:09 | ghostpage | reverse racism isn't… a thing…. |
19:09 | Chimera | Agreed. Because it's racism. |
19:09 | AbsentmindedNihilist | chimera there is no institutionalized bias against white people. |
19:09 | Chimera | There is now |
19:09 | LilyAFK | Chimera: stop digging a hole here, man |
19:09 | Solo | Chimera: do you know what institutionalized bias is |
19:09 | Chimera | There's a bias against cis/white/ect BECAUSE people suddenly now see that as "wow fuck you" |
19:09 | Solo | serious question |
19:09 | Silber | someday we will have a white president and then reverse racism will be over |
19:09 | AbsentmindedNihilist | chimera there are dozens of studies that back me up. |
19:09 | Solo | Silber: one can only dream |
19:09 | SpookyBee spits out imaginary water | |
19:09 | Chimera | Dozens! |
19:09 | ghostpage | Minorities telling people to not talk over them isn't reverse oppression |
19:10 | SpookyBee | sorry wait what |
19:10 | ghostpage | IT's equality |
19:10 | AbsentmindedNihilist | chimera yes. |
19:10 | Nu2891 | Wow, this chat is getting political |
19:10 | Chimera | Okay so how am I supposed to react to someone saying "fuck all white people" |
19:10 | DreadLindwyrm | Oh boy… |
19:10 | Chimera | Is that not racist? |
19:10 | AbsentmindedNihilist | chimera would you like me to find the one that shows how "white" names are more likely to be selected for jobs than "black" ones? |
19:10 | Solo | … |
19:10 | ghostpage | Chimera, don't take it personally is the answer, it's someone oppressed venting |
19:10 | Solo | anger on behalf of the oppressed =/= oppression |
19:10 | AbsentmindedNihilist | chimera it's a reaction to insitutionalized racism propogated by many white people |
19:10 | Chimera | How do you know that though |
19:10 | * SpookyPizza joined #site19 rf.elbaciremun.ver.55-3-98-ten.5DBCE942-CRInys|tibbiM#rf.elbaciremun.ver.55-3-98-ten.5DBCE942-CRInys|tibbiM | |
19:10 | Nu2891 | Hey, anyone want to read a draft??? |
19:10 | PotatoPerson | Someone send me a ping when chat isnt political anymore |
19:10 | Nu2891 | http://scpsandbox2.wikidot.com/bentu |
19:10 | LilyAFK | And in addition to all the above it is not being a nazi |
19:11 | * PotatoPerson is now known as AwaytoPerson | |
19:11 | djkaktus | Hey hey hey y'all |
19:11 | Chimera | I mean, if you say things like "white people shouldn't vote" |
19:11 | SpookyPizza | WOOOOOOO-HOOOOOH! |
19:11 | SpookyPizza | YES |
19:11 | djkaktus | Let's all have ourselves a simmer here |
19:11 | Chimera | Which I have actually seen |
19:11 | SpookyPizza | SO MUCH WIN |
19:11 | Dora | Chimera I mean, does that represent a systematic oppression that has a history that stretch back in term of years and years? |
19:11 | SpookyPizza | HAHAHAHA |
19:11 | AbsentmindedNihilist | chimera you're straw manning now. |
19:11 | Chimera | Dora, does it NEED to have a systematic oppression? |
19:11 | djkaktus | Hey |
19:11 | SpookyPizza is dancing like a fucking mad man | |
19:11 | AbsentmindedNihilist | chimera yes. |
19:11 | ghostpage | Chimera, yes |
19:11 | Dora | Chimera I mean, here's a thing about statistics |
19:11 | Chimera | I'm asexual. I haven't been "oppressed for years and years", so that means i'm apparently invalidated. |
19:11 | Chimera | So. |
19:11 | Chimera | w/e |
19:11 | djkaktus | Guys, nobody wants anyone else to get banned, like |
19:11 | Solo | my god |
19:11 | djkaktus | Let's all slow our collective roll |
19:11 | DreadLindwyrm | So. Would "refusal to serve a white person" or "ignoring a white person to serve all the other <ethnic group> people first" be racist? |
19:11 | SpookyPizza | Macron won! |
19:12 | Chimera | I think we just need to agree to disagree. |
19:12 | SpookyPizza | Haha! |
19:12 | ghostpage | Chimera, I'm ace and… that's not true lol |
19:12 | Gishface | is that official? |
19:12 | SpookyPizza | Is anybody listening to me? |
19:12 | Lux | i mean if you say fuck white people you're being a dick and that's technically racism but it isn't exactly on the level of societal opression |
19:12 | ghostpage | Not being straight is oppressed |
19:12 | Chimera | DreadLindwyrm yes because you are still basing things off their skin color |
19:12 | Gishface | link to the Macron win pls |
19:12 | tahunu | SpookyPizza: you mean le pen isnt in charge? |
19:12 | ihp | .lc |
19:12 | tahunu | THANK FUCKING GOD |
19:12 | LilyAFK | SpookyPizza: holy fuck!!!! Yes!!! |
19:12 | jarvis | ihp: Scp 3997 The bad pair (written 19 minutes ago by Dr blitz) - http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-3997 |
19:12 | jarvis | ihp: SCP-3109: Xiphos of Rage (written 12 hours ago by JanglyDude) - http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-3109 |
19:12 | jarvis | ihp: Nobody Wants To See You Succeed (written 13 hours ago by GibberingEloquence) - http://www.scp-wiki.net/nobody-wants-to-see-you-succeed |
19:12 | djkaktus | Can we get a stop order or something here pls |
19:12 | +++ AbsentmindedNihilist set the channel to mode +m | |
19:12 | AbsentmindedNihilist | Okay. |
19:12 | AbsentmindedNihilist | Enough. |
19:12 | * chubert joined #site19 ~dnalsI.nainoI.emoS|trebuhc#dnalsI.nainoI.emoS|trebuhc | |
19:12 | AbsentmindedNihilist | Op order, change topic now. |
19:12 | +++ AbsentmindedNihilist set the channel to mode -m | |
19:12 | Chimera | Thanks |
19:12 | AbsentmindedNihilist | there we go |
19:18 | ghostpage | Oy |
---|---|---|
19:18 | ghostpage | I have a complaint about Chimera's behaviour in 19 |
19:18 | ghostpage | They have been ceaselessly not listening to operators and peers telling them about how oppression works - multiple times /to/ people who are oppressed in the ways they are talking about, and generally inciting lots of anger in people by starting/triggering these conversations to happen then being… frankly, a shitlord about it |
19:18 | ghostpage | Such as, but not limited to; claiming white oppression is real, defending the use of slurs when told using slurs in chat is bad, being homophobic, and speaking for all ace people by claiming we are not oppressed for not being straight which is a whole other barrel on monkeys but in general? We are not homogeneous and saying we all believe X is bad |
19:18 | Solo | I will second this complaint |
19:18 | Lily | Noted |
19:18 | Dora | ghostpage, Solo would you like your IDs logged as part of your complaints? |
19:18 | ghostpage | Sure |
19:19 | Solo | go ahead |
19:19 | Tuomey | ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)/ |
Banned for one week with operator (Tuomey and Dora) approval.
EDIT: Discussion of the ban in 17, followed by an apeal taken by Procyon. Appeal denied.
<Chimera> Okay, so why am I banned?
19:55:09 S<•Solo> ops
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19:56:34 L<•Lily> Chimera: due to your behaviour in 19, which was disruptive to the chatroom and also quite unpleasant- e.g. comparing people who are actually part of the room to nazis
19:57:21 → •Silber (promoted to admin, opped) joined ⇐ Dr_Leonard quit
19:57:33 L<•Lily> Chimera: do you wish to appeal?
19:57:43 C<Chimera> I'm sorry, what?
19:57:58 What exactly happened besides me having a different belief and everyone shitting on me at once?
19:58:51 L<•Lily> Having a different belief isn't an excuse for refusing to accept maybe you may be wrong when pretty much everyone- including those whom it affects- tells you otherwise
19:58:56 → •Sirens (halfopped) joined
19:59:14 C<Chimera> So you're oppressing me because i'm different
19:59:15 Okay
19:59:19 L<•Lily> No
19:59:23 C<Chimera> Nice job, hypocrite.
19:59:31 L<•Lily> That is not what is going on so please do not make such accusations
20:00:23 C<Chimera> Well what is? Because from my understanding, that's exactly what happened.
20:02:05 ⇐ Lux quit (ten.labolgcbs.cnhglr.deepsthgil.18BF4945-CRInys|tibbiM#ten.labolgcbs.cnhglr.deepsthgil.18BF4945-CRInys|tibbiM) Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client
20:02:25 L<•Lily> When your behaviour is upsetting and alienating to large amounts of chat, it is disciplineable
20:02:31 → Dr_Leonard and stormfallen joined
20:02:48 C<Chimera> Well what else am I supposed to do when people suddenly start dogpiling because I expressed a different belief than them?
20:02:52 I'm sorry you're offended?
20:02:54 L<•Lily> We are not banning yoi for having a different view but rather for expressing views that hurt members of chat and refusing to accept that or apologise
20:03:03 C<Chimera> And so different views aren't wanted?
20:03:08 Only a certain viewpoint is acceptable?
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20:03:28 L<•Lily> Point of note, there is no better way to show an insincere apology than apologising for the other party's feelings
20:03:37 S<•Solo> may I interject?
20:03:47 L<•Lily> There's no need for snark here, I am trying to explain as best and simply as I can
20:03:48 Solo: alright
20:04:09 ⇐ Dr_Leonard quit (ten.mocrie.rgm-cbd.kdd.2gga.D3A41A82-CRInys|tibbiM#ten.mocrie.rgm-cbd.kdd.2gga.D3A41A82-CRInys|tibbiM) Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client
20:04:41 C<Chimera> Well from my viewpoint, an opinion was expressed. Someone didn't like it.
20:04:48 It's not my problem if they don't like it?
20:04:53 S<•Solo> Having a different view does not need to be tolerated if that view is harmful, e.g. if someone expresses offensive "opinions" we have no obligation to respect them
20:04:56 C<Chimera> People say things I find horrible and offensive quite frequently.
20:05:31 L<•Lily> There is a difference from not liking a view and being hurt by a view
20:05:39 D<•DrMann> Also, our site, our chat.
20:05:46 We decide what's allowed.
20:05:52 C<Chimera> Sure. So make it safe for some, and miserable for others.
20:05:55 L<•Lily> In such a case as someone defending homophobia or comparing users to nazis, then that is not an acceptable view
20:05:58 C<Chimera> I was never wanted here in the first place.
20:06:02 Homophobia? Seriously?
20:06:11 I said people shouldn't act horrible when offended.
20:06:22 D<•DrMann> What exactly did you say?
20:06:26 C<Chimera> Because I like not being yelled and and told i'm a terrible person and told to go die in a basement
20:06:26 L<•Lily> We intend for 19 to be a safe place for people of all creeds- and that includes banning those who violate the rules that ensure this
20:06:37 D<•DrMann> Apologies, I'm coming inot this a bit late.
20:06:45 L<•Lily> http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-2226446/chimera DrMann
20:06:45 C<Chimera> I said I didn't think "gay" was offensive and said people should stop attacking people over it.
20:06:59 Because if you're attacking someone for that, you're no better than they are.
20:07:13 → Ricky joined (PI.77159DE3.17099A7B.5DE7CB29|tibbiM#PI.77159DE3.17099A7B.5DE7CB29|tibbiM)
20:07:16 L<•Lily> Chimera: and when multiple (gay, may I add) users explained why it is offensive and upsetting you refused to acnowledge this
20:07:39 And instead continued to insist that it was acceptable, up to and including violating a stop order to say so
20:07:39 C<Chimera> I didn't change my belief, no. I accepted they found it offensive and decided not to use the term?
20:07:47 D<•DrMann> Ah. So, what I'm getting from this is that you have shitty opinions. We are under no obligation to provide you a platform.
20:08:10 A<•AbsentmindedNihilist> i am perfectly capable of seeing from other's perspectives.
20:08:16 C<Chimera> I find it really interesting how you think it's perfectly acceptable to tell someone they're a terrible person and to die in a basement
20:08:25 A<•AbsentmindedNihilist> t's not.
20:08:29 A<•ARD> we didn't tell you to die in a basement
20:08:30 A<•AbsentmindedNihilist> ghostpage went over the line.
20:08:49 C<Chimera> And again, I have the right to be offended when attacked.
20:08:49 G<ghostpage> Yes I did, and I apologize for it, Chimera
20:08:55 C<Chimera> Apologize? When/
20:08:58 A<•AbsentmindedNihilist> yes you do.
20:09:03 G<ghostpage> Right now
20:09:07 C<Chimera> And when everyone attacks, i'm going to defend myself.
20:10:19 What do you mean right now?
20:10:32 A<•ARD> ghostpage> Yes I did, and I apologize for it, Chimera
20:10:48 C<Chimera> "did" implies apologized already.
20:10:55 G<ghostpage> I was addressing niles
20:11:02 A<•AbsentmindedNihilist> they're apologizing right now
20:11:05 D<•DrMann> "did" was the action. That is, went over the line.
20:11:08 L<•Lily> no, that was them saying they messed up- the "I apologise" is the apologu
20:11:10 G<ghostpage> %AbsentmindedNihilist> ghostpage went over the line.
20:11:10 3:09 PM <ghostpage> Yes I did, and I apologize for it, Chimera
20:11:19 C<Chimera> Oh
20:11:23 Sorry, I misread that
20:11:27 D<•DrMann> "Yes I did (go over the line), and I apologize for it."
20:12:08 → •Decibelle (promoted to admin, opped) joined
20:12:47 C<Chimera> Well, apology accepted. It's okay. Sorry I offended you.
20:13:03 I only meant to defend my beliefs, not offend anyone.
20:13:03 L<•Lily> once again
20:13:05 20:03:28 <• Lily> Point of note, there is no better way to show an insincere apology than apologising for the other party's feelings
20:13:06 A<•AbsentmindedNihilist> also, mea culpa on the dogpiling - that got out of hand, and i should have muted the channel sooner.
20:13:20 L<•Lily> It is better to apologise for your actions not for thw upset they have caused
20:13:32 C<Chimera> I apolozied for offending them?
20:13:33 A<•AbsentmindedNihilist> chimera apologies are best when they indicate a future change in behavior.
20:13:34 C<Chimera> That was my action.
20:13:38 L<•Lily> in doing so you shift the blame onto the other party
20:13:54 C<Chimera> I'm not blaming them
20:14:04 L<•Lily> Perhaps not intentionally
20:14:12 C<Chimera> No, not unintentionally either.
20:14:15 You can't unintentionally blame someone.
20:14:19 Blame implies intention.
20:14:22 L<•Lily> But apologising for upset is not the same as apologising for the action that caused it
20:14:28 C<Chimera> I apologize for my actions, but I don't think the reaction was correct.
20:14:32 L<•Lily> Your action was not ghostpage being offended
20:14:35 C<Chimera> I apologized for upsetting THEM. My actions caused them.
20:14:44 My actions were to upset them, and I apologized for it.
20:14:56 G<ghostpage> There you go, and acknowledged.
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20:16:25 G<ghostpage> Chimera, the point here, to paraphrase just in case, is to apologize for being offensive instead of the person being offended
20:16:25 Is that accurate, Lily?
20:16:30 L<•Lily> Yes
20:16:49 C<Chimera> That's what I just did :/
20:16:54 L<•Lily> Not originally
20:16:55 C<Chimera> I apologized for my actions that caused offense
20:16:59 Yes, originally.
20:17:01 G<ghostpage> Right, just reiterating
20:17:20 C<Chimera> [12:12] <Chimera> Well, apology accepted. It's okay. Sorry I offended you.
20:17:20 L<•Lily> "Sorry I offended you" is not "Sorry for [action"
20:17:33 C<Chimera> The "sorry I offended you" translates into "sorry my actions have caused offense"
20:17:54 A<•ARD> Chimera: why not just say "I'm sorry for my actions"?
20:17:59 L<•Lily> ^
20:18:02 C<Chimera> Because I didn't type it that way?
20:18:02 Soulless|Grocer → •Soulless
20:19:10 L<•Lily> regardless, I believe the point has been made.
20:19:24 C<Chimera> Yep. It's been pretty clear from the beginning.
20:19:24 L<•Lily> Chimera: do you have any further questions about your ban? Or would you like to appeal?
20:19:25 G<ghostpage> "sorry my actions have caused offense" implies I am at fault for taking offense, not that your actions are at fault - but yes, anyways
20:19:30 ⇐ Aphex_ quit (~null@73D92711:7B19859E:F65405BA:IP) Ping timeout: 181 seconds
20:19:50 C<Chimera> What do you mean by appeal?
20:20:19 L<•Lily> Request the ban be overturned/reduced
20:20:23 You put forward your case
20:20:25 C<Chimera> Sure.
20:20:27 L<•Lily> Operators deliberate
20:20:28 Alright
20:20:30 Silber?
20:20:42 C<Chimera> I've been needing to go fix my router though
20:21:26 P<•ProcyonLotor> Well, presumably you can do both at some point in time
20:21:38 Not a binary choice, is it?
20:21:39 C<Chimera> Well it would disconnect me from the internet
20:21:54 Which is why i'm explaining if I suddenly go to fix it and disconnect, it's from that.
20:21:57 P<•ProcyonLotor> I mean, you can come back, or do it later?
20:22:04 ~problem solving~
20:22:27 C<Chimera> Yeah, sure. But i'd still rather explain that I might disconnect randomly if I need to go do that rather than have people assume I ragequit.
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20:22:39 P<•ProcyonLotor> Okay, noted.
20:23:55 → DrBleep and •Conwell (opped) joined
20:25:05 P<•ProcyonLotor> So, uh, begin at your leisure I suppose.
20:25:18 I will be hearing it.
20:25:21 C<Chimera> Uh, me?
20:25:34 P<•ProcyonLotor> Well, you're the only one appealing.
20:25:40 So yes. By definition.
20:25:51 ⇐ Aphex_ quit (~ten.labolgcbs.cnlrhc.deepsthgil.75676576-CRInys|llun#ten.labolgcbs.cnlrhc.deepsthgil.75676576-CRInys|llun) Ping timeout: 181 seconds
20:26:21 C<Chimera> Well I don't think the ban was necessary, in my opinion.
20:26:37 I explained already how I didn't mean to offend - the situation got out of control when users started dogpiling.
20:26:46 P<•ProcyonLotor> Guess what?
20:26:56 C<Chimera> You don't care?
20:27:00 P<•ProcyonLotor> Say something offensive, if users, even in multiplicity, react
20:27:06 It's your own goddamn fault
20:27:29 C<Chimera> And yet to me, it doesn't seem offensive, so how am I supposed to know they would react like that?
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20:28:03 P<•ProcyonLotor> More social awareness, seems like it should have been damn well obvious from where I'm sitting after a review of the logs
20:28:21 C<Chimera> Not really. I don't go into tumblr-esque communities often.
20:28:31 Things that seem obvious to you aren't obvious to people who don't frequent those areas.
20:28:33 P<•ProcyonLotor> We expect a basic level of social skills to participate here, and teaching them to you is not our responsibility
20:28:46 C<Chimera> So I should spend more time on tumblr and try to act like them or something?
20:28:53 P<•ProcyonLotor> So, your argument is "I don't get basic human decency "
20:29:03 Want me to deny it right now or you got something else?
20:29:03 C<Chimera> Basic human decency is different to different people.
20:29:15 What you see as basic isn't something that most people even know exists.
20:29:25 It's basic to YOU.
20:29:35 Because that is again, your group.
20:29:36 R<Ricky> It shouldn't be. Tumblr can take things over the line, yes, but in general we get it right that you shouldn't say offensive things to people's faces.
20:29:40 P<•ProcyonLotor> That saying "gay" as a perjorative is homophobic?
20:29:48 L<•Lily> Ricky: ops have it
20:29:50 D<•Decibelle> no peanut gallery ricky
20:29:52 P<•ProcyonLotor> Listen. I don't hang around tumblr.
20:29:55 R<Ricky> sorry
20:29:55 C<Chimera> I said people "shouldn't act badly when people say the word gay"
20:30:05 P<•ProcyonLotor> I don't even like tumblr, albiet for different reasons from you
20:30:08 C<Chimera> Saying someone shouldn't act negatively because of a word used is apparently offensive?
20:30:30 P<•ProcyonLotor> I mean, it's not quite on the scale of racial slurs, but the same argument applies
20:30:54 It's a beehive you chose to put your cock in, and when the bees come out you're the only one who looks like an ass
20:31:03 C<Chimera> And again, most people that frequent the general internet community sites do not consider it offensive
20:31:20 P<•ProcyonLotor> I think most people, with fundamnetal social graces, do
20:31:32 C<Chimera> And that's your opinion.
20:31:34 P<•ProcyonLotor> Like, I work a 9-5 job. Professional. Suit and tie.
20:31:43 I'm pretty sure no one there uses tumblr
20:31:45 C<Chimera> But most people? Never would even consider being offended by that.
20:31:52 P<•ProcyonLotor> Sure as fuck would still be offensive there.
20:32:04 C<Chimera> So someone saying "oh that's gay" would suddenly trigger a dogpile at your workplace?
20:32:07 Where do you even work?
20:32:20 P<•ProcyonLotor> People would certainly give you nasty glares
20:32:27 And there'd be an HR complaint.
20:32:31 Criminal law office.
20:32:33 D<djkaktus> Peanut gallery, but holy shit I would get fired if I used gay as a pejorative at work.
20:32:41 HR would be on my ass so fast it's insane.
20:32:42 C<Chimera> Criminal law? Seriously?
20:32:46 P<•ProcyonLotor> Yes.
20:33:01 C<Chimera> That's ridiculous. That's the kind of stuff you get complained about FOR complaining about.
20:33:06 At least from what i've seen
20:33:07 A<•ARD> No it's not
20:33:08 A<•AbsentmindedNihilist> chimera uh, no.
20:33:09 ← djkaktus was kicked by •Decibelle
20:33:09 L<•Lazar> Same here, working in IT.
20:33:10 P<•ProcyonLotor> Appeal denied. Your argument is trying to tar the rest of the world with your specific ignorance.
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20:33:25 C<Chimera> That's not my argument, no.
20:33:33 So don't assume that way.
20:33:45 P<•ProcyonLotor> I see no other way to interpret it.
20:33:55 C<Chimera> Then you're quite ignorant yourself.
20:34:00 Let me try and explain this.
20:34:08 P<•ProcyonLotor> It's been denied.
20:34:11 C<Chimera> I say people should not act terrible when something offends them.
20:34:17 That is offensive
20:34:19 Then they act terrible.
20:34:26 P<•ProcyonLotor> Now, do you have any further questions, because if not, you need to leave.
20:34:38 C<Chimera> Nah, I get it. People like me are better off dead to people like you.
20:34:40 ← Chimera left (~gniriseD.ehT.roF.htaeD.oN|egabraG#gniriseD.ehT.roF.htaeD.oN|egabraG)
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