First logs courtesy of ProcyonLotor digging them up from way back, second logs courtesy of Tuomey. Log Beautifier didn't work on the second set, and first was too long to be worth the trouble.
First relevant logs to this kind of behavior date back to 11 months ago, during a critique session in #site17 with Zyn, EldritchCadence, Cimmerian and I. Given how long logs are, they're presented in a link here:
As for the incident prompting the creation of this thread: people seemed to start having a polite discussion about slurs and then, well, of course it goes downhill from there.
04:23:40: <Dr_Leonard> Tuomey would you consider the word "Mick" to be a slur against Irish people?
04:23:44: Metaphysician yawns.
04:23:53: <Dr_Leonard> I just heard someone (almost certainly non-Irish) say it was really bad
04:23:59: <Tuomey> Dr_Leonard: It's been used that way yeah
04:24:02: <Dr_Leonard> like, man
04:24:02: <daveyoufool> Kalinin: can you blame me, I live for adventure :P
04:24:11: <Metaphysician> It is used here, I live in well, near Boston - large Irish population.
04:24:13: <DoctorExpletive> Tuomey: Do you know what that makes you mate?….. a communist red menace.
04:24:13: <Dr_Leonard> daveyoufool most adventurers die young
04:24:26: <DoctorExpletive> I smell sedition in the air
04:24:30: <Tuomey> but it's not like we're at the same disadvantage as we were when anti-Irish sentiment was at its apex
04:24:32: <daveyoufool> dr_leonard: yay, no nursing home for me
04:24:47: <Dr_Leonard> daveyoufool or children
04:24:50: <Dr_Leonard> or… probably college
04:24:52: <Metaphysician> But, like, it is low level slur (the way it is used here) - like, it doesn't have the impact it done when anti-Irish feelings were much bigger.
04:24:53: <Dr_Leonard> you're like 15, right?
04:24:55: <Some_Potato> Tuomey, apex is a cool word
04:24:56: <HammerHead> People use the word "sick" in both positive and negative connotations.
04:25:15: <daveyoufool> dr_leonard: actually, I made up my mind about having children long ago
04:25:15: <Tuomey> Of course we could be staring down the figurative barrel of a new troubles right now so this could all be different
04:25:18: <Metaphysician> Besides, I'm pretty sure there were much harsher terms.
04:25:23: <Tuomey> * tomorrow
04:25:35: <daveyoufool> It's not my thing. Never having kids
04:25:38: <Dr_Leonard> daveyoufool that can always change
04:25:43: <Dr_Leonard> unless you got a vasectomy or summat
04:25:58: <Metaphysician> (It is funny, there are a few slurs whose origins are just, hilariously mundane to the point where it is hard to understand how an insult was crafted from it).
04:26:06: <Tuomey> Hammerhead: mick, not sick. As in, like, McEngtaggart
04:26:11: <daveyoufool> True, but I can at least take preventative measures.
04:26:12: <Tuomey> *entaggard
04:26:17: <Kalinin> Metaphysician: Context and intent count for a lot
04:26:17: <Tuomey> *entaggart
04:26:19: <Tuomey> goddammit
04:26:22: <Metaphysician> Aye.
04:26:24: Tuomey cannot into typing
04:26:25: <Metaphysician> True enough.
04:26:41: <HammerHead> The meaning and impact of the word is purely within the mind of the listener. The speaker can't impart what the impact in their mind is to the other person accurately.
04:26:52: <Some_Potato> Pam quoted Han Solo in-context :D
04:27:18: <Tuomey> Hammerhead: that's only true to a certain extent
04:27:25: <HammerHead> I know. It got me thinking about the word "gay," and then a more harmless word: sick.
04:27:47: <Metaphysician> An example I had in mind (yes, it is a slur but the most likely etymology is interesting). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kike
04:27:51: <Metaphysician> But it sounds so harsh.
04:27:56: <thomas> well I mean if I say "that's gay" in a positive tone it obviously has a very different meaning from "that's gayyyy" directed at something negatively
04:27:57: <Tuomey> If I said "I hate X" it's pretty cleary that I hate X
04:28:35: <daveyoufool> Metaphysician: on a related note, I was wondering the other day - do the CotBG/Sarkic Cults have slurs for each other?
04:28:35: <Tuomey> Metaphysician: that's pretty wild
04:28:36: <Metaphysician> There are some words that just work as profanity in general, because of the harsh sound - rather than the meaning.
04:28:42: <thomas> tuomey, going off of that, if millions of people say "I hate X" then the next time someone mentions X even in a positive light there's a negative connotation
04:28:48: <Dr_Leonard> do people still say "das gay" unironically?
04:28:58: <Metaphysician> Sarkic, in a way, is the biggest insult they could give.
04:29:01: <Dr_Leonard> haven't heard it much at all in recent years
04:29:10: <ProcyonPhone> Well, if I'm describing something that's gay, yes
04:29:14: <Tuomey> Dr_Leonard: yyyup
04:29:26: <HammerHead> Gay has taken on two separate, unrelated definitions: "homosexual" and "rubbish," but people say that you shouldn't use it to mean "rubbish" because it has an alternate definition, and that is a foolish reason.
04:29:27: <Dr_Leonard> Tuomey like the Hank Hill-esque "yup" there ;p
04:29:31: <Metaphysician> It is a reason why some words just don't go away, because they work well - even as the meaning changes.
04:29:34: <Tuomey> thomas: yeah, context has to be taken into account
04:29:37: <Metaphysician> South Park had a decent episode about that.
04:29:48: <LuX> Metaphysician: … was it the biker one
04:29:54: <Metaphysician> The intent/meaning is trivial compared to the actual *sound* of the word.
04:29:55: <Metaphysician> Yes.
04:29:58: <thomas> hammerhead …they're pretty related
04:30:15: <Metaphysician> Which, even a foreigner might hear and, not knowing what it meant, might assume an insult ;p
04:30:20: <daveyoufool> Metaphysician: also, I am very close to writing a project crossover thing about a sarkic hymn, and it's set to the tune of Gaston from BatB.
04:30:25: <daveyoufool> Give me 50 dollars and I will not write it. >:3
04:30:30: <HammerHead> Not when I use them.
04:30:32: <Metaphysician> Hahaha
04:30:33: <Metaphysician> That's great.
04:30:34: <thomas> it's impossible to separate "this word is used to mean 'bad thing'" from "this word was used to mean 'bad thing' directed at the other meaning'"
04:30:40: <daveyoufool> And it's called "Ion"
04:30:57: <Dr_Leonard> daveyoufool here's a hundred. don't come near me or my wife's boyfriend's son
04:31:00: <thomas> it means "rubbish" /specifically because/ of a history of use to say, in essence, "gay people are rubbish"
04:31:02: <HammerHead> Yes it is possible.
04:31:11: <LuX> tbh south park is surprisingly deep for being… south parl
04:31:12: <LuX> *park
04:31:14: <thomas> it might be possible to you, you're probably not gay
04:31:19: <thomas> but for other people it's not possible
04:31:22: <thomas> and that's all that matters
04:31:24: <Dr_Leonard> Lux the creators aren't idiots, anyway
04:31:36: <Dr_Leonard> even if they do tend to flip flop on moral issues a bit
04:31:36: <LuX> True true.
04:31:39: <daveyoufool> lux: south parl? is that what happens when pearl & cartman fuse
04:31:43: <Kalinin> Ehhh…they have kind of a facile grasp or politics
04:31:46: <thomas> if you mean to say "rubbish" but you're really saying, in their mind, "rubbish, just like gay people"
04:31:51: <Metaphysician> Well, as long as the notion doesn't threaten their libertine angle - so global warming is mocked, despite evidence, facts, data…
04:31:51: <HammerHead> That's a failing on their part, then, not on mine. If they cannot separate the meanings of words.
04:31:56: <thomas> then it doesn't matter if YOU can't separate it
04:31:56: <thomas> no
04:32:00: <daveyoufool> You WILL respeck Rose Quartz's authoritah
04:32:05: <Metaphysician> Err, libertarian*
04:32:07: <thomas> it absolutely is a failing on your part to communicate well and respectfully
04:32:08: <Metaphysician> Not libertine.
04:32:09: Liampluridon is off to get a job.
04:32:22: <Tuomey> Liampluridon: good luck mate
04:32:27: <Tuomey> >:|
04:32:56: <daveyoufool> Wish me luck guys, I'm downloading Final Fantasy X. God, grant me the strength to power through these cringetastic cutscenes
04:32:59: <daveyoufool> or at least make them skippable
04:33:00: <Metaphysician> While I don't support slurs, nothing wrong with profanity in my mind. Some languages don't have anything quite like it - at least not on par with say, English.
04:33:01: <thomas> communication is a two way street and if you never consider how your message arrives then you messed up
04:33:15: <Dr_Leonard> Metaphysician swearing is good, yes
04:33:15: <thomas> communication is all about sending a message, /having it be received correctly,/ and getting messages back
04:33:17: <Metaphysician> Which is a language that relies a *lot* on euphemisms.
04:33:18: <LuX> Profanity is excellent.
04:33:23: <Dr_Leonard> when one is frustrated, it is a good outlet
04:33:25: <HammerHead> Two way street
04:33:30: <Dr_Leonard> Lux you're absolutely right, shithead
04:33:31: <Dr_Leonard> ;p
04:33:36: <Kalinin> Profanity has to be conserved so that it lands with more impact when it's used.
04:33:37: <thomas> if you use a word like "gay" to mean "rubbish" without recognizing that it won't be received right, that's skipping step 2
04:33:43: <JackIke> Lelkappa
04:33:44: <Metaphysician> Kalinin With that I agree.
04:33:44: <LuX> Dr_Leonard: I know, fuckwad. :D
04:33:51: <Dr_Leonard> Kalinin yeah, that's what my dad used to tell me
04:33:52: <JackIke> Dankmemes friend beans
04:33:56: <Tuomey> http://i.imgur.com/X00ZesA.png
04:33:59: <thomas> and yeah I'm cool with profanity, just, there's a difference between profane language and language that is specifically profane and also hate speech
04:34:07: <Metaphysician> God, why do I type everything like that, as if I'm Yoda…
04:34:11: <Metaphysician> *I agree with that.
04:34:12: <daveyoufool> Metaphysician: on a related note, NEVER call Dr. Spanko a "Louisiana Teflon Bingo."
04:34:17: <Metaphysician> Haha
04:34:21: <Dr_Leonard> call me a prude, but i don't really like hearing little kids swearing
04:34:43: <HammerHead> Intention matters.
04:34:51: <Dr_Leonard> i remember being in a book store when I was 15, and heard some 12 or 13 year olds behind me talking about getting drunk
04:34:55: <Dr_Leonard> I was just like… man
04:35:12: <LuX> Oh dear.
04:35:19: <Metaphysician> It is humorous though, the way we apply importance to words like "fuck" - in America, bloody carnage is far more acceptable when compared to a swear or, god forbid, a naked tit.
04:35:20: <thomas> intention does matter, just, it's not the only thing that matters
04:35:22: <Dr_Leonard> When my distant relative gave me pale ale a couple months back, I was so proud to be drinking, lol
04:35:30: <daveyoufool> damn. are you sure they weren't older kids that looked younger?
04:35:31: <Dr_Leonard> It was fucking disgusting, but I took it to look cool
04:35:41: <saX> Dr_Leonard, been there, done that.
04:35:42: <Dr_Leonard> Daveyoufool well I can't be certain, Idk
04:35:43: <Dr_Leonard> this IS Ireland
04:35:58: <daveyoufool> Also, am I the only guy here who's like 28, are the rest of you teenagers
04:36:00: <HammerHead> If I was trying to shorter the word "torpedo" and said "pedo," I might be perceived incorrectly, but I am still talking about a torpedo.
04:36:04: <daveyoufool> I don't wanna be a creep D:
04:36:04: <thomas> tuomey this is absolutely amazing
04:36:05: <Tuomey> Lot of kids would talk about getting drunk and not actually do it, lot of kids would actually drink
04:36:06: <HammerHead> Not a pedophile.
04:36:14: <Metaphysician> Thomas What other things matter? Should once censor themselves when discussing a term, even if it is being used not as an insult?
04:36:20: <Dr_Leonard> daveyoufool no
04:36:31: <saX> daveyoufool, nah, also in the 20s here.
04:36:37: <daveyoufool> ah ok
04:36:42: <Tuomey> Hammerhead: that argument is so irrelevant to what you were talking about that I'm gonna come in and op order you to stop that conversation
04:36:48: <thomas> Metaphysician, like I said, how the message is received matters as well as the intention. That's pretty nebulous so I'll see if I can break it down a bit
04:36:59: <Metaphysician> One cannot control how it is received.
04:37:07: <HammerHead> Exactly.
04:37:09: <thomas> you can, though, by communicating better
04:37:28: <Metaphysician> Trust me, I've seen people take offense no matter how well communicated something is.
04:37:28: <HammerHead> But, ordered to stop
04:37:32: <Tuomey> I'm pretty sure we're all agreed that using terms for gay people as generally negative terms is bad
04:37:42: <HammerHead> So, let's stop?
04:37:43: <Metaphysician> Oh, yes.
04:37:49: <thomas> you can't make someone see hateful words as not hateful magically but you can recognize that words you use might be seen badly and change up how you say things
04:37:52: <Metaphysician> But, I rather see it I suppose, just so I know *who* is an asshole…
04:37:52: <thomas> alright yeah can stop
04:37:53: <Tuomey> That was the discussion originally
04:38:03: <Metaphysician> Yeah, I came in the middle of it.
04:38:36: <Some_Potato> Phrasing
04:38:58: <Metaphysician> Reminds me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuEQixrBKCc
04:38:58: <Jarvis> Metaphysician: George Carlin - Euphemisms - length 9m1s - 21060↑565↓ - 2,599,857 views - poyani on 2012-12-29
04:39:00: <Metaphysician> But now, afk.
04:39:08: <Deci|Dinner> lemme clarify something
04:39:09: <EldritchCadence> Ave, 19!
04:39:16: <Deci|Dinner> when an op order is given its not "find a tangent of that convo and continue"
04:39:23: <Deci|Dinner> its "move onto a new topic and stop talking about the old one"
04:39:33: <AidenEldritch> Hey, person who always gets confused with me!
04:39:36: <AidenEldritch> How are you today?
04:39:36: <Dr_Leonard> Guys, I have a rather strange question.
04:39:40: <Metaphysician> Eh, what now?>.>
04:39:42: <HammerHead> There was something I read about "you should unapologetically defend your beliefs."
04:39:45: <Dr_Leonard> When you sneeze, do you smell honey?
04:39:51: <AidenEldritch> hah
04:39:54: <AidenEldritch> huh
04:40:04: <saX> Dr_Leonard, no.
04:40:08: <Dr_Leonard> My dad used to always get that, and I do too
04:27 thomas …if I do, Ive never noticed
04:27 Dr_Leonard Sax yeah well, it doesn't seem to be that unusual
04:27 AidenEldritch Ahoy, Lux
04:27 Tuomey Dr_Leonard: one time I sneezed and got honey up my nose because I was holding a spoonful of honey at the time
04:27 AidenEldritch .lc
04:27 jarvis AidenEldritch: SCP-2973: The "Unlucky Bunny" (written 4 hours ago by Fireninja06YTREAL; rating: -18) - http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-2973
04:27 jarvis AidenEldritch: SCP-2630: Eschaton Compiler (written 4 hours ago by Aiden Eldritch; rating: +5) - http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-2630
04:27 jarvis AidenEldritch: SCP-2268: [ACCESS DENIED] (written 5 hours ago by Quillbook!; rating: -17) - http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-2268
04:27 Tuomey I definitely smelled honey that time
04:27 AidenEldritch wooh +5
04:27 Tuomey does that count?
04:27 Dr_Leonard when you type in "why does sneeze"… on Google, you get "smell like honey"
04:27 Some_Potato Deci|Dinner, I like to imagine you are balancing a frying pan on your elbow while typing with a single hand on a laptop balanced on a carton of eggs
04:27 Dr_Leonard Tuomey NO
04:27 EldritchCadence AidenEldritch: More like you got confused with me : P
04:27 * Quin quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) suoirotreS.n|lniuQ.rD#suoirotreS.n|lniuQ.rD
04:27 Dr_Leonard Keep in mind I likely have awful health
04:28 EldritchCadence I've been here longer brosky
04:28 Deci|Dinner Some_Potato: lol
04:28 AidenEldritch EC: ssh I'm in denial
04:28 Dr_Leonard It might be ketosis
04:28 EldritchCadence There is no denial.
04:28 AidenEldritch let me have my 5 picoseconds of slightly increased notability
04:28 EldritchCadence There is only pain. o_o
04:28 * BiggerJ joined #site19 ~ua.ten.tenii.nyd.E2EED52-CRInys|JreggiB#ua.ten.tenii.nyd.E2EED52-CRInys|JreggiB
04:28 Deci|Dinner Hammerhead: not sure if you were trying to subtly continue the convo that got stopped or youre using a non-sequiter there
04:28 Deci|Dinner i hope its the latter
04:28 Hammerhead But, like, what if your sincerely held beliefs are wrong, at what point do you stop "unapologetically defending" them?
04:28 Dr_Leonard "most of the energy provided by glucose" probably, yes
04:28 * LunFlaer joined #site19 ten.sulet.aishcb.7349ED46-CRInys|realFnuL#ten.sulet.aishcb.7349ED46-CRInys|realFnuL
04:28 Hammerhead Starting something different.
04:29 thomas Hammerhead, when you realize they're wrong and get better beliefs, I guess?
04:29 Deci|Dinner alright, fair enough
04:29 Dr_Leonard Hammerhead explain?
04:29 EldritchCadence When an op says you do because you're creating a ruckus, I'd assume.
04:29 DoctorExpletive AidenEldritch: Are you equipped and full-stomach'ed to provide some critique wisdom?
04:30 AidenEldritch DoctorExpletive: /me munches on potato chips
04:30 AidenEldritch yes yes i am
04:30 Some_Potato Deci|Dinner, what timezone are you in
04:30 * LunFlaer quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) ten.sulet.aishcb.7349ED46-CRInys|realFnuL#ten.sulet.aishcb.7349ED46-CRInys|realFnuL
04:30 Hammerhead Well, the defending but is that, if you believe something, you shouldn't just give it up at a moment's notice, but then, there is always the chance that what you hold true is incorrect. How do you determine that
04:30 Hammerhead You need to stop "defending"
04:31 Deci|Dinner Some_Potato: right now its 11:31 PM
04:31 Deci|Dinner i eat dinner late
04:31 DoctorExpletive AidenEldritch: Excellent, second tab! ~ http://scpsandbox2.wikidot.com/doc-expletive-s-box-of-well-expletives
04:31 Dr_Leonard it is 4:31 AM here
04:31 Metaphysician What matters is the truth; if what you believe is revealed to be not true, or, has a rather flimsy foundation, one should reconsider.
04:31 Kalinin Acquire wisdom and discernment in order to evaluate whether your beliefs are correct. Continue acquiring and evaluating. Repeat until dead.
04:31 Metaphysician Always carefully consider what you believe something.
04:31 Lux Deci|Dinner: … I'm feeling tempted to make eggs right now but I'm in a little condo on the beach and there's like 2 rooms and my parents would wake up and be like "why the hell are you cooking eggs at this ungodly hour"
04:31 Metaphysician And carefully consider the motivations of our actions.
04:32 Lux so i eat late as well sometimes xD
04:32 Hammerhead And the real curveball: What if it's something that has no foundation, like religion?
04:32 Metaphysician I mean, you can live your life doing the opposite but, well, that is more or less being like a meat automaton…
04:32 Deci|Dinner i imagine if someone has enough convinction to practice a religion seriously it has a foundation to them
04:32 AidenEldritch Wait, so SCP-X is just the one storm, right
04:32 Metaphysician I am not religious, in turn, I could not justify such beliefs.
04:33 AidenEldritch But then, they know exactly what happens whenever it strikes?
04:33 AidenEldritch Does that mean SCP-X has occured multiple times, or…
04:33 thomas religion might not have a basis in fact in the same way that "gravity exists because things fall down" does
04:33 DoctorExpletive AidenEldritch: So, I should extract the paragraph then.
04:33 Metaphysician Well, often those foundations rely on certain fallacies.
04:33 DoctorExpletive Because it does occur twice, but then again, the second time only happened in the addendum.
04:33 thomas but there are still reasons to have a religion which exist, and if you follow a religion you'd have to weigh those reasons against criticisms against the religion, like you would with other situations
04:33 Metaphysician "This is true because this book said this is true and this book is true because it is true"
04:34 AidenEldritch DoctorExpletive: yeah, then you need to state something like
04:34 thomas I'm gonna bring back more stuff from the last communications class I took
04:34 thomas people have different types of beliefs/opinions
04:34 Metaphysician One can believe 2+2=3 but belief, no matter how strong, won't make it so.
04:34 AidenEldritch "SCP-X is an anomalous meteorological event which has occured twice: once on January 26th, 1978…"
04:34 Hammerhead Well, I mean, on an individual basis it might have a foundation, but, as a whole, it falls apart under the scrutiny of logic, and too often, "scholars" on religion say that it specifically does not follow logic, which removes it from all possible conversation (and drives me up the wall.)
04:35 thomas you have core beliefs which are the most fundamental things you think, like "there is a moral good" etc
04:35 Metaphysician Abstractions are difficult.
04:35 thomas and you have values that are based on those like "this moral good tells me that I shouldn't steal"
04:35 Dr_Leonard "Shots fired at Dallas protest"
04:35 Dr_Leonard that name tho
04:35 Deci|Dinner Hammerhead: ok?
04:35 thomas each one further in takes more work to get someone ro reconsider and recognize flaws in it
04:35 Dr_Leonard fuuuck
04:35 WrongJohnSilver 1.6+1.6=3.2, when rounded to the nearest integer, is 2+2=3.
04:35 AidenEldritch WJS: It is, with error bars
04:35 Dr_Leonard 3 people have been killed
04:35 Dr_Leonard oh God
04:36 thomas so you could convince someone of their attitude towards stealing- "sometimes there are reasons to steal" easily
04:36 Dr_Leonard https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/4rsb4k/shots_fired_at_dallas_protests/
04:36 Metaphysician Since they aren't metaphysical truths, yet, all at once, I believe them - and, it seems, most do. Murder is wrong - the vast majority of humans believe that unless they are able to convince themselves that the action isn't *really* murder, that the victim isn't *really* human.
04:36 thomas it's harder to get someone to go "okay, there might be moral grounds where stealing is good"
04:36 Dr_Leonard he who fights monsters
04:36 Hammerhead Deci|Dinner: I'm conversing. It's not like I'm giving a speech or anything.
04:36 thomas and then it's hardest of all to convince someone of their core beliefs, like "there is no moral good and stealing is neutral and who cares"
04:36 DoctorExpletive AidenEldritch: Any other significant changes required?
04:37 Metaphysician We tend to desire absolutes; they are easier to understand.
04:37 Kalinin There is absolutely no way I am clicking a Reddit thread on police shootings
04:37 AidenEldritch DoctorExpletive: Uh, not particularly
04:37 thomas so when you have an opinion, it's worth identifying where it lies in importance to you
04:37 Deci|Dinner Hammerhead: the general idea im getting here is that by bringing religion into this and then laying out "well yeah but theres no logic and that just drives me crazy", youre laying bait to take an anti-religious bent
04:37 Hammerhead Even though the length of my rants were speech-like.
04:37 Tuomey Dr_Leonard: fuck me. What's the protest?
04:37 Deci|Dinner so id probably try and find a way to make it more neutral
04:38 DoctorExpletive AidenEldritch: So, do you feel it's ready for posting if I finish editing the said paragraph?
04:38 thomas it was a BLM protest IIRC
04:38 Hammerhead Well, okay, I can see that.
04:38 Tuomey thomas: hoo boy
04:38 Metaphysician Also, depends on the subreddit - most of the ones I visit are pretty anti-murder ;p
04:38 AidenEldritch DoctorExpletive: eh, I guess
04:38 AidenEldritch do what you want maaaaang
04:38 Dr_Leonard Tuomey BLM thing
04:38 Kalinin Tuomey: Dallas. Not that there's a good place for that sort of thing, but that's not going to be pretty
04:38 Metaphysician You are going to get a different experience on different places because, woah, the internet ;p
04:38 * Lux quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) ten.dshqrabme.ats.634B3191-CRInys|xuL#ten.dshqrabme.ats.634B3191-CRInys|xuL
04:38 Dr_Leonard As someone says
04:38 Hammerhead Religion is a good topic for this, however, because it is such an obvious thing that straddles that line.
04:38 Dr_Leonard "Police reform is the goal. Murder is not reform"
04:39 Metaphysician Morals and ethics would also fit in general.
04:39 Hammerhead But what else could there be.
04:39 Deci|Dinner Hammerhead: true, and you can indeed bring religion into that sort of discussion and still be neutral about it
04:39 DoctorExpletive smokes dim-lit cigarette in front of AidenEldritch.
04:39 Tuomey Kalinin: I can't imagine it's going to go well for anyone
04:39 DoctorExpletive yesssss
04:39 Deci|Dinner i only stepped in there because ive seen this road travelled many times and wanted to redirect it onto nicer ground preemptively
04:39 thomas hammerhead, to bring this back- religion for most people is a core belief. The specifics of the religion would be values which could be changed if you convinced them. Things they might think because of the religion, like 'pork is bad because my religion says so', are most easy to persuade them to reconsider
04:39 * Lux joined #site19 ten.dshqrabme.ats.634B3191-CRInys|xuL#ten.dshqrabme.ats.634B3191-CRInys|xuL
04:39 Hammerhead (Yeah, but I'm not neutral about it, so it's a bad topic for me.)
04:39 * BlackWing joined #site19 ksaM.tsoH|gniWkcalB#ksaM.tsoH|gniWkcalB
04:39 Lux grumbles bout wifi being r00d
04:39 Deci|Dinner then try not to bring religion into it, eh?
04:39 Metaphysician Be neutral… Deci, that seems rather extreme. Forced neutrality in a conversation… well, where do we draw the line on that?
04:39 Sax … then it would be best to stay away from topics for which you have bias.
04:40 BlackWing So, did I enter at a bad time?
04:40 Hammerhead (Yeah, I said you had a point.)
04:40 Sax BlackWing, when is there ever a good time?
04:40 Deci|Dinner Metaphysician: ive had to kick people in this channel a few times for being pieces of shit about it
04:40 EldritchCadence BlackWing: You came into 19.
04:40 Some_Potato Metaphysician, maybe just avoid naturally-divisive conversation topics?
04:40 EldritchCadence You're gonna have a bad time ; )
04:40 thomas neutrality in this case probably best means 'recognize other people's different beliefs and values and be respectful in criticism or discussion of them'
04:40 Deci|Dinner im not saying "dont talk about the convo"
04:40 BlackWing Sax: I've entered on plenty\ of good times.
04:40 Metaphysician I'll have to hide my pro-reality bias.
04:40 thomas rather than 'don't have any opinions at all'
04:40 Hammerhead Oh, Metaphysician Coming in with the logic bomb.
04:40 Metaphysician Ehh
04:40 Sax BlackWing, tonight is not one of them.
04:40 Tuomey Metaphysician: the point was more about staring a conversation
04:40 Metaphysician I'm just saying.
04:41 Kalinin "naturally-divisive conversation topics"
04:41 * AidenEldritch is now known as AFKEldritch
04:41 Kalinin Let's talk about amnestics classes.
04:41 Hammerhead Unapologetically defend.
04:41 Metaphysician WHat is your favorite pie? And if you say blueberry I will cut you.
04:41 +++ ProcyonLotor set the channel to mode +m
04:41 Deci|Dinner "I'll have to hide my pro-reality bias." again, i recognize when convos start to go bad. they have warning signs. if you wanna be a dick about it, fine, but at least dont twist my words around.
04:41 ProcyonLotor Hi folks, my name is ProcyonLotor. Some of you might recognize me as the op who is a whole lot less nice than EC or Deci
04:42 ProcyonLotor Among my bit parts in several 90s sitcoms
04:42 ProcyonLotor And tonight I'm here to tell you to change the fucking topic, now.
04:42 ProcyonLotor Okay? Okay
04:42 ProcyonLotor Thanks
04:42 +++ ProcyonLotor set the channel to mode -m
04:42 DoctorExpletive ^90's sitcoms.
04:42 Sax So.
04:42 DoctorExpletive >he's wearing a wire.
04:42 * Grave quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) ten.soletn.dengissanu.2D842FEE-CRInys|evarG#ten.soletn.dengissanu.2D842FEE-CRInys|evarG
04:42 Sax I'm going to Jamaica in a week.
04:42 EldritchCadence Wow, rude, Procy. I consider myself between hammer and chisel!
04:42 Sax Anyone have any advice?
04:42 * Metaphysician left #site19 ten.tsacmoc.am.1dsh.68670074-CRInys|cisyhpateM#ten.tsacmoc.am.1dsh.68670074-CRInys|cisyhpateM
04:42 EldritchCadence Whaaaat Sax!
04:42 EldritchCadence That's beat!
04:42 EldritchCadence *neat
04:42 Tuomey Kalinin: I missed the safety/handling class and forgot the rest
04:42 Kalinin You're going to cut me a slice of blueberry pie Metaphysician? That's awfully kind of you.
04:43 Silber 90s sitcoms
04:43 Dr_Leonard ProcyonLotor
04:43 Dr_Leonard you are nice
04:43 Sax EldritchCadence, I'll be working as a volunteer for an organization called Power to Be International.
04:43 Silber where everyone is a terrible person and nothing matters
04:43 Dr_Leonard I know you put on the tough guy facade, but on the inside, you're just as sweet as Deci or EC :)
04:43 * Lux quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) ten.dshqrabme.ats.634B3191-CRInys|xuL#ten.dshqrabme.ats.634B3191-CRInys|xuL
04:43 Silber especially Ross
04:43 Hammerhead Yeah, that was very rude and bossy.
04:43 Sax A youth empowerment camp that reinforces literacy and leadership.
04:43 * Lux joined #site19 ten.dshqrabme.ats.634B3191-CRInys|xuL#ten.dshqrabme.ats.634B3191-CRInys|xuL
04:43 Sax While having fun.
04:43 Kalinin Tuomey: Huh?
04:44 EldritchCadence Dr_Leonard: PFFFF-
04:44 EldritchCadence Yeah. Okay, Leonard. : P
04:44 Kalinin Enforced literacy. Thank Christ.
04:44 Lux blep i dcd are we talking about pies now
04:44 Lux SHIIIT
04:44 EldritchCadence Sax: That sounds really cool. How do I poke a program like that?
04:44 Lux but yeh key lime and coconut cream are the shit
04:44 Magnobile So.. i am hearing multiple things from the beekeepig community about my allergy
04:44 ProcyonLotor Hammerhead, it was rude and bossy because people were not getting the fucking point, a point which you are continuing to fail to get, and if you do not get it real soon, you'll be taking a week break, capiche?
ProcyonLotor and I had extended convos with him in PMs. Those can be grabbed by accessing his .rem in staff-chat.
