User has continuously disregarded and disrespected critters and crit staff, getting them a 24 hour ban in #thecritters.
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3:03:29 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/forum/t-13992073/sapient-corporation-scp-seeking-greenlight
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3:04:38 PM <EagleKnight9> The Lounge User cwazzycwafter, the article is really good overall, my only complaints are that, in my opinion, the classification of SCP-2 through 6 is a bit confusing and hard to follow, and that I think that the Foundation probably got the message after test 129 and would have stopped for a bit to prevent the test subject's needless death
3:04:39 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User Could someone be temped to read my idea? It is about emergent theory of consciousness as manifested in a Corporation
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3:06:29 PM <Zoobeeny> The Lounge User AnthonyBorderline: I quickly read through your proposal. What do you plan for your narrative?
3:06:39 PM <cwazzycwafter> The Lounge User EagleKnight9 What, you mean I can't just send people into the depths of empty space, even if it's for science?
3:06:49 PM <Zoobeeny> The Lounge User You have the raw basics of a narrative, now give me the details.
3:07:51 PM <EagleKnight9> The Lounge User cwazzycwafter, well if it's for science, by all means go ahead
3:07:56 PM <cwazzycwafter> The Lounge User I do really want to keep those last test logs, I guess I'll have to rewrite them so that they don't kill?
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3:09:35 PM <EagleKnight9> The Lounge User It might just be me, though the Foundation does throw away a lot of lives, so it wouldn't be necessarily out of character
3:11:11 PM <cwazzycwafter> The Lounge User You're not the first to mention it, I've been slowly having to reduce the number of people
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3:13:59 PM <EagleKnight9> The Lounge User Wait, does the revolver manifest the subject in outer space, or like another dimension that's a vacuum in logs 128-130?
3:14:27 PM <cwazzycwafter> The Lounge User Another dimension that is a vacuum
3:15:11 PM <EagleKnight9> The Lounge User What would happen if the Foundation sent a subject with a space suit into it?
3:16:02 PM <cwazzycwafter> The Lounge User You can't, clothing doesn't travel with you
3:16:21 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User Zoobeeny okay. The corporations mind is becoming active, it rises to the top, and Foundation tries to seize the corporations "body" as it were. The SCP retaliates, and starts its war/immune system productions. There has to be some form of CEO type working and speaking for the Corp., or it could be virtual avatar too. It goes on a rampage,
3:16:21 PM destroying several Foundation bases. Then maybe some anomaly escapes as a result, killing more people. As this takes years, and by incorporating various systems, the Corp sentience grows, through suffering a dilemma, "Am I wrong", then what am I, what do I wish, don't know how but I wish to put some philosophy of mind and consciousness into it.
3:16:21 PM Like how the corp realizes that if all are it, how boring would that be? Also that it needs Humans, and Humans need Foundation, so it needs Foundation. In the End it becomes a guru-like monk of a corporation!
3:17:06 PM <Ceci> Atty hi cwazzycwafter did you get some sleep?
3:17:11 PM <EagleKnight9> The Lounge User cwazzycwafter, right I forgot that
3:17:32 PM <cwazzycwafter> The Lounge User Ceci Yeah, a solid 4.5 hours or so, lmao
3:17:53 PM <Ceci> Atty Hey that's usually how I do.
3:18:02 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User Something along those lines, it in the end doesn't want to be a cold robot run organism. On many things I have ideas and maybe so's but that's the jist of it.
3:18:21 PM <EagleKnight9> The Lounge User It's a really good article, but I still think that it is a bit hard to follow each character cause the numbers are a bit confusing
3:19:42 PM <cwazzycwafter> The Lounge User EagleKnight9 I don't really know how I would simplify that
3:20:15 PM <EagleKnight9> The Lounge User Yeah I don't know either, it might just mean the reader needs to pay a bit closer attention
3:22:21 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User Zoobeeny any comments or feedback?
3:23:44 PM <Zoobeeny> The Lounge User AnthonyBorderline: Alright, so why should I care about this? What emotion are you trying to appeal to?
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3:34:47 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User Something along those lines, it in the end doesn't want to be a cold robot run organism. On many things I have ideas and maybe so's but that's the jist of it.
3:35:07 PM Zoobeeny okay. The corporations mind is becoming active, it rises to the top, and Foundation tries to seize the corporations "body" as it were. The SCP retaliates, and starts its war/immune system productions. There has to be some form of CEO type working and speaking for the Corp., or it could be virtual avatar too. It goes on a rampage,
3:35:08 PM destroying several Foundation bases. Then maybe some anomaly escapes as a result, killing more people. As this takes years, and by incorporating various systems, the Corp sentience grows, through suffering a dilemma, "Am I wrong", then what am I, what do I wish, don't know how but I wish to put some philosophy of mind and consciousness into it.
3:35:08 PM Like how the corp realizes that if all are it, how boring would that be? Also that it needs Humans, and Humans need Foundation, so it needs Foundation. In the End it becomes a guru-like monk of a corporation!
3:36:00 PM Zoobeeny crap, I switched to old comment and lost a lot..
3:36:48 PM <Zoobeeny> The Lounge User AnthonyBorderline: That's okay, tell me though, how on earth does this SCP manage to "go on a rampage" it's not as if it can move. So what actions does it take?
3:39:07 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User curiosity, intrigue and topics like consciousness, making mistakes and learning by them, so being faulty is a must have part of growth and learning.. Some society criticism, and pondering our own essence… Hard to make a compelling read, that I do realize..
3:39:53 PM <Zoobeeny> The Lounge User Effectively, you want the readers to empathize with this SCP, correct?
3:40:05 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User As to "going rampage", It can own and operate factories, command people and use money like nobodys business, go via networks, build those robotics…
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3:41:40 PM <Zoobeeny> The Lounge User The issue I have with that is that even if it can own factories, it still has to perform business like a normal company, which means all its documentation has to exist. Therefore, the creation of a robot army would not really go unnoticed, especially by the Foundation.
3:42:27 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User Most of the people work in a corporation… and yes, though at first they will have to be wondering what the hell is it, what is going on exactly, then later feel for the ideas and yeah, this new higher form of life.. Instead of some nature Gaia unity, it would be corporation to bring some of that.
3:42:35 PM I find that hilarious…
3:44:23 PM And you think it couldn't send memos as the Foundation? Buy out companies and hire a Blackwater private army, some countries.. IT works and is made of people.. So it can do whatever groups of people can. It could order the army to make it those robots!
3:45:08 PM Just takes a bit of imagination… As I said, corporations rule the world, especially if banks and IMF and such are counted.
3:45:32 PM <Zoobeeny> The Lounge User Wait wait, so is this SCP just a random company that's seized by the Foundation?
3:45:34 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User rigging elections etc.. no prob,
3:47:20 PM No, it is a conscious whole, made of monkeys (and electronics) like the monkeys are made of smaller living bits, half of human biomass is other than you, microbes and bacteria and such..
3:48:56 PM <Zoobeeny> The Lounge User You're losing me. Monkeys? Where are these monkeys coming from?
3:49:31 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User And if you are familiar with the Emergent theory? suggests that just about everything is alive in a sense of having an experience via some form of sensing, higher thought follows when lots of those small nodes are combined into a grouping… Monkeys are us, humans I meant
3:51:05 PM it is like a collective mind above and of tiny humans and all these various parts of infrastructure are the operations of its body
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3:51:22 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User Where is it? well, where is your mind?
3:51:26 PM <Zoobeeny> The Lounge User Ok, I understand that. But I don't understand how this SCP is so formidable. It's still only one company with limited funds.
3:51:36 PM My mind is very clearly in my skull, thank you very much.
3:53:00 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User why limited? why one? it is a corporation, merging and making fusions and doing loads of stuff as multinationals.. Time of one function companies is past, most are owned by some, like all the food is made by max 10 corporations
3:53:24 PM <Zoobeeny> The Lounge User So, this SCP is created from an already established company?
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3:55:19 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User Is it? so You heard about this guy who got a railroad beam through his head and it messed large parts of his brain without much else than changing his temper. Where in your skull? Consciousness is a mystery to science. Neurochemistry doesn't explain how initially what we think of dead particles create your sense of self.
3:58:57 PM It wakes up, already a player in the fortune 10… Like, well you are made from an existing and established pattern, yet you are not me. And when did energy really become life? Life is a resisting of entropy, will to maintain oneself, grow and understand. To think is to be, to be is to think..
3:59:04 PM <Zoobeeny> The Lounge User Excuse me? I think you're confusing real science with philosophy. The idea of consciousness is quite physically rooted in the brain of humans. The man who had the railroad beam go through his head, Phineas Gage, very clearly had his frontal lobe ripped off. Conveniently, it changed his entire temperament, not just "temper". It was clearly noted
3:59:04 PM that he was practically a different person, and for good reason, because the frontal lobe is where personality and reasoning occur.
3:59:04 PM And while neurochemistry doesn't explain *how* thoughts work in its entirety, that doesn't mean it's entirely unexplainable.
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3:59:54 PM <Zoobeeny> The Lounge User I amend my statement. Phineas Gage lost the majority of his left frontal lobe, not the entirety.
3:59:56 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User so far it is, emergence is not some wild fringe theory either…
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4:00:56 PM <Ceci> Atty No one knows how, why, or what consciousness is
4:01:05 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User and your brain has things running, sending stuff, making stuff, reacting and sensing stuff. Imagine just a bigger brain..
4:01:17 PM thank you Ceci
4:01:41 PM <Ceci> Atty ha, I'm not on anyone's side.
4:01:44 PM <Zoobeeny> The Lounge User That doesn't fix your SCP, in any case. I'm not here to debate philosophy.
4:01:51 PM <Ceci> Atty ^
4:02:07 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User you asked me what emotions I wished to present and convey?
4:02:23 PM <Zoobeeny> The Lounge User If your SCP is the conglomerate consciousness of an already established Fortune 500 company, then it starts making dubious decisions as a company, people are going to investigate.
4:02:55 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User It says in Genre psychology, philosophy, strange (or weird)..
4:03:02 PM <Zoobeeny> The Lounge User Next, how does it cause the people within it to act a certain way? As a consciousness, how does it make its components act the way it does?
4:03:34 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User it is the damn people! People and corporations do all sorts of dubious shit just for money..
4:03:44 PM <Ceci> Atty It would be a lot simpler to go with the single controlling figure angle than try to justify how a company itself is somehow a thinking entity
4:04:06 PM Secret takeover by an ai? sure!
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4:04:40 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User by, like I said in the idea thread, punishment and reward. Get this and that if you just do you job, get fired if you don't and another person takes your place…
4:05:18 PM <Ceci> Atty Hey write as you'd like I suppose.
4:05:24 PM <Zoobeeny> The Lounge User That doesn't justify how this SCP can build a robot army. You just can't hide something like that.
4:05:28 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User AI is a boring choice for this, isn't there kaziljion living computers SCPs?
4:06:38 PM <Ceci> Atty It seems like you are hung up on the idea of having a living company, and not the story you want to tell.
4:07:20 PM If you want to make a company that is also a sentient, sapient, entity, you might want to really consider the nuts and bolts of how that will work. Then get a story from that.
4:07:35 PM World domination and robot army is just :|
4:08:54 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User the people making its consciousness do know, like your body and your lungs know when and how to breathe, but that is quite hidden from your livers function. Humans are bodies of totally different systems joining to create one system that works out together to make up your mind. same way there is people who are the root of this sapient SCP, doing
4:08:55 PM different things, like this factory does these motors and this one assembles them with bits from somewhere else into voila! robots½!
4:09:52 PM Ceci, pls read the idea thread, and you'd know it is a phase in the spiritual, mental growth of this mind, not the end result..
4:11:55 PM <Zoobeeny> The Lounge User You make it sound as if the human organ systems are sentient on their own, when it is a very complex system of chemicals and neuroelectrical signals.
4:11:55 PM Ultimately, I just don't understand how this SCP can exist. It just sounds like a regular company that suddenly decides to do shit.
4:12:08 PM <Ceci> Atty I tried to look at your idea thread this morning, and I decided not to invest more time because it was all one block of text. This occured directly after we told you to explicitly read the entirety of the "how to" guide on that forum. So, sorry but I'm not going to.
4:12:29 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User think of a country, it is one entity with traits made out of many.. well this human collective mind is more than a country… and people are it, not something it tries to hide from, or even considers as more than we do electricity, which Zoobeny, you could argue is thought, right?
4:13:25 PM ceci I did, and I made it well, by the book and with thought,
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4:14:07 PM <Ceci> Atty You realize I can see the edit history?
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4:15:24 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User I just wish to think of these things in a SCP format, things like philosophy and how we became self aware ourselves. Why would you ceci look at edit history and not the newest one?
4:15:31 PM <Zoobeeny> The Lounge User AnthonyBorderline: I don't understand what you're trying to say anymore. A country is not alive. It does not have a consciousness, unless you count the collective consciousness of those who head that country, in which case for your SCP, it's not that the company is alive, it's the collective consciousness of those in charge.
4:15:59 PM Which means it's not an anomalous being, it's just a normal company, doing weird things for no reason.
4:16:02 PM <deathbygin> The Lounge User Good afternoon, is anyone available to read a draft? Just wanna know if it's a +1 or -1 before posting.
4:17:22 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User it was bad, I got feedback and did it again, and tweeked some more and …well, this isn't very productive… Corporations can't build robotics and automation says one, the other i don't know what, that I should change my corporation to a bloody PC?
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4:19:27 PM <crystalmonarch> The Lounge User deathbygin I'll take a look. Would you mind reading a draft of mine in return and let me know the ending falls flat for you?
4:19:48 PM <deathbygin> The Lounge User crystalmonarch Definitely, let's trade links.
4:19:50 PM http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/forum/t-13982481/long-distance-relationship
4:19:59 PM <crystalmonarch> The Lounge User http://scp-sandbox-3.wikidot.com/crystalmonarch
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4:20:19 PM <crystalmonarch> The Lounge User http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/forum/t-13988682/scp:captures-her-imagination
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4:22:36 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User You might not get how your brain is electric network, your personality by a big part decided by the "little brain" in our colon, nervous system the equal of a dogs brain in size and computational power, so not all of you is in skull, but ass. And this is a fact, so can you Zoobeeny explain that? does it make it impossible? Besides, I'm not claiming
4:22:37 PM I know how things are, nobody does! Especially of consciousness.. But I was under the misguided thought not all written here needs to be as is in the real world…
4:23:13 PM <Zoobeeny> The Lounge User AnthonyBorderline: You insist on your SCP being a very specific way, and when asked about how this was even possible, you debate about philosophy.
4:23:13 PM Let me be clear here, your SCP is incapable of existing due to a couple of factors:
4:23:13 PM A) If it's so rich, then changes in behavior, due to the emergence of a consciousness, especially changes towards apparent militarization would raise flags.
4:23:13 PM B) If the Foundation takes the SCP over, then by rights, the SCP has been slain, since it's internal workings have been removed.
4:24:49 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User Is the topic of sentience coming to be off limits? You can see how a computer would have similacrum to thoughts, by those dead parts. This is just the same, just that the parts are bigger and instead of run by electricity the currents of people run this mind.
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4:25:33 PM <Zoobeeny> The Lounge User And like I said earlier, I'm fine with the concept for an SCP, but you're not explaining it in a way that would make sense to a reader. What is this consciousness and how did it even come about? Why is the direction of this consciousness like a child's when it is the byproduct of already rigid standards. Why does it harbor desire?
4:25:34 PM Essentially, why is the consciousness of the SCP separate from the direction the company was already heading?
4:26:54 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User internal workings of this sentient collective are humans, who need and are run by corporations, rather than corporations run by one man… And this is non-fiction site?
4:27:56 PM <deathbygin> The Lounge User Why do people ask for feedback then defend their work against that feedback?
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4:30:02 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User Baby is also a made out old form, copied in each of us, in our dna, yet it grows and becomes sentient by falling and hittting the child in the park, dates and gets wasted in teenage… we are a process, so is the idea of this SCP, to be a process, made of us! Not ownership deeds, but what all there is for its body, the h8umans to survive..
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4:30:17 PM <Zoobeeny> The Lounge User AnthonyBorderline Alright then. I'm done. From what I understand, I can't help you. Your sentient company that's only sentient due to the moving nature of a company, but is somehow different from just how a company actually works is losing me. I can't do anything more. Please find a different reviewer to help you.
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4:33:51 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User I was asked, deathbygin … About the emotions, the purpose of the SCP article, it is just these things.. there was no feedback until my answer of making a fiction piece pondering mind etc self awareness… So I am answering. It would have been okay in a AI but not as more esoteric form? and the direction, remeber at the beginning when I told the
4:33:51 PM storyline when you asked?
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4:34:57 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User Zoobeeny, I have said humans, the people, formed in the form of cities and corporations is the basis for the collective mind..
4:35:19 PM <Ceci> Atty Great, moving on.
4:35:23 PM What is the story
4:35:30 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User not a shoeshop or IKEA..
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4:39:09 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User Ceci, are you asking me? and I don't want to sound ungrateful for the feedback but what am I to do If I can't make fictional collective mind made of HUMANS, who have just arranged themselves by corporate model- think the corporation as a skeleton and the humans flesh, it could be some other form, but we have corporations running countries.. Well ,
4:39:09 PM yeah, in the end it becomes an enlightened Singular Person, yet made of hundreds pf humans…
4:40:09 PM <Ceci> Atty You can do whatever you'd like. But readers will ask these questions and if they go unanswered a significant amount will downvote
4:41:56 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User The Story arch is up there, right before, what emotions am I wishing to bring and find and use. I can't help if a idea doesn't make sense to someone because he doesn't hear me, but gets stuckon this word corporation. When in actuality maybe even a world religion would do, it is just the formation of the body… Make sense?
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4:50:37 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User I tried to answer the questions in multiple metaphors and examples, it wasn't that I'm not listening, trying to explain, and now Zoobeeny got frustrated at my idea because the Emergence theory doesn't make sense, or he thought of material buildings as being the corporation when corporations are people and machines and do everything around here, we
4:50:37 PM obey and take our salary- People aren't noticing the Foundation, why would they a multinational corporation of various fields? And which would be the bad one? Also the corp grows and the warmaking is a mere phase and a response to containment attempts. That was the sentence that started it "The corp starts to rampage", "well how can a corp do that?
4:50:37 PM -" by building weapons, hiring soldiers and making robots etc, even this was unintelligible so then I have to raise my hands and stop this… fruitless. And if feedback here is "I don't get how?" and then shooting down every which way I tried to explain how and what, then yeah, don't know what to take from that…
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4:51:52 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User not worth this weird arguing, it turned into. That is why the waking sentience ´reacts with violence at first too..
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4:55:46 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User Or dunno, what question is unanswered? Also, I said that asking these questions was kind of the idea in this story… Not that they have answers, for nobody knows.. but yeah.. I say nothing… Thanks for the feedbackloop!
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4:58:42 PM <•Fourier> Right.
4:58:44 PM So.
4:59:17 PM ⇐ •weizhong quit (gnohziew.repmes.cis|iew#gnohziew.repmes.cis|iew) be back in a bit
4:59:22 PM <•Fourier> AnthonyBorderline, you've been going on for the past ten minutes and very much so been making giving feedback difficult
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4:59:51 PM <•Fourier> People here are volunteers, helping out of the goodness of their hearts
5:00:07 PM Being combative in receiving feedback's not going to do anyone any favours
5:01:41 PM •Fourier banned *!*@SCP-4j8ab4.elisa-mobile.fi (+b)
5:01:41 PM •Half ops Timed ban *!*@SCP-4j8ab4.elisa-mobile.fi added by Fourier on #thecritters lasting for 1d.
5:01:53 PM <•Fourier> To that end, I'm banning you for 24 hours
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5:26:31 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User Great.. I do kind of understand, I am asked questions to make sense of not only my scp idea but concepts like "How can that become alive" and I try to explain, more questions and refusal to except my answers as making sense because how could a group of people have a collective mind? So shit SCP, Do an -AI, well how the hell does it work in
5:26:32 PM computers! I should have not tried to answer the questions with rising frutration, when words like human network=corporation=brain network do not make sense, but AI does. Or it suck because how could a multimillion dollar corporations with the ability to learn and change build robots? As it is made of humans like I said, over and over… but I am
5:26:32 PM not a volunteer. So I and anyone who angers the chosen, are automatically wrong. Wasn't even about my damn SCP anymore but about refusal to accept something one does not think herself. At first, the scp was okay, then I had to explain neurochemistry and brainwaves or herd behaviour to someone not wanting to hear….. Feedbackloop Makes me very
5:26:32 PM careful in my wording here, or when a question is asked of me, for answering them and keeping to do so is "combatant". Don't ask, if no answer is from the beginning acceptable. I should have not said to ceci "thank you", after that it went to hell when the one person badgering me thought I was in a competition while I was trying to really get
5:26:32 PM feedback… fracking read the exchange!! And also I did not know that discussions were not encouraged, answering questions until the other person gets cranky is the feedback system, making it more hard to accept even to disagree, but just go with comment "Can't be so" (after which I tell how it could and is in nature or some form and so forth…
5:27:16 PM leave
After that, the user's ban was upgraded to a 1 week ban from #thecritters. They came in to #site17 again and set off the flood limit.
6:36:53 PM <AnthonyBorderline> The Lounge User I wouldn't be so annoyed right now if the feedback I supposedly didn't take as one should, would have been other than questions which I answered or statements how something can't be as the person understood my responses. Funny when in a fictional verse, to say that an SCP is bad because one can't fathom how from a collective group could come a
6:36:53 PM mind, since we are such beings ourselves, made from collective of living beings… How can those microbes not know what the human thinks? was basically one question/feedback. I reckon most SCPs could be argued to death like this!! I just tried to explain, sry if the topic takes long sentences and mystifies our greatest minds, and one person doesn't
6:36:53 PM get it… No matter how I tried to say the same thing in ten ways, to have the same 'I don't think mind works like that'…. I have after all taken all other feedback to heart, but this wasn't about my idea anymore. Not that I saw how. But you admins do what you must, just hope the dialogue was read by someone other, not just her/him complain how
6:36:53 PM difficult I was when I tried to explain. As I do have an answer to what was asked. Leaving now, sorry for the essay, but it said I should say it here, and if I would think it a critique of my idea, that'd be ok. But it was about someone constantly misunderstanding whole points there, sticking to one word, speaking and arguing of how things are in
6:36:53 PM reality, not about how my SCP idea was. Yes, yes, dumb complaining here. But if I can't talk of this, and the questions I was trying to answer be themselves questioned, one should always take them as rhetorical. Not try to tell in forum what is supposed to be told in the SCP. As such I'd have no objection to those "these should be answered