User dropped some "weapons grade takes"1 and found themselves disappointed that they didn't go over well. Log follows.
2020-06-29 16:26:26 Soulless: anyhow yeah racefail '09 was a wild time
2020-06-29 16:26:32 Soulless: I highly recommend reading the tl;dr on it
2020-06-29 16:26:37 bouncl: I recently learned that grapefruit is a hybrid between oranges and pomelos
2020-06-29 16:26:42 Soulless: hi bouncl
2020-06-29 16:26:44 Soulless: it's been a while
2020-06-29 16:26:45 DrMoned: Jazstar in that case why didnt you fix the first bit ;p
2020-06-29 16:26:45 bouncl: and that oranges are a hybrid between mandarins and pomelos
2020-06-29 16:26:47 bouncl: hi soul
2020-06-29 16:26:47 Soulless: I live in NYC now
2020-06-29 16:26:49 Soulless: did you know that
2020-06-29 16:26:53 Popsioak: gotcha, thanks soulless
2020-06-29 16:26:54 bouncl: how is that
2020-06-29 16:26:54 Soulless: you should visit me
2020-06-29 16:26:56 bouncl: i hope you are safe!
2020-06-29 16:26:58 Soulless: YOU SHOULD VISIT ME
2020-06-29 16:27:02 Soulless: well not right now
2020-06-29 16:27:04 Soulless: but eventually
2020-06-29 16:27:08 WLPierce: i don't get this racefail thing, isn't part of science fiction supposed to be that you can have alternate histories and see how they play out in fiction
2020-06-29 16:27:11 Soulless: bouncl, it's good I'm chilling
2020-06-29 16:27:17 bouncl: i'd be down when all of this stuff clears out
2020-06-29 16:27:25 bouncl: nice nice nice
2020-06-29 16:27:30 Popsioak: hrm
2020-06-29 16:27:31 LittleFieryOne: Was about to say, there's a pandemic going on outside if you missed it
2020-06-29 16:27:32 Popsioak: for shits and or giggles
2020-06-29 16:27:35 bouncl: still in software?
2020-06-29 16:27:36 Popsioak: .ch post, don't post
2020-06-29 16:27:38 OCuin: WLPierce: yes, but it's worth consdering what the implication of doing so is
2020-06-29 16:27:42 Popsioak: oh fuckin' hell helen
2020-06-29 16:27:44 Soulless: WLPierce, racefail was when people decided to say that painting someone yellow and saying they're from a hivemind of overly-logical beings is a racist dogwhistle
2020-06-29 16:28:27 PlaguePJP: Best of three popsi
2020-06-29 16:28:29 Soulless: WLPierce, additionally stephen king has an unfortunate string of writing black people who are stereotypes and then die after helping the protagonist for no reason
2020-06-29 16:28:35 Popsioak: .ch post, no
2020-06-29 16:28:39 Popsioak: .ch post, no
2020-06-29 16:28:43 Popsioak: shrugs
2020-06-29 16:29:07 WLPierce: shrug
2020-06-29 16:29:08 anorrack: noneuropean fantasy books are fantastic
2020-06-29 16:29:11 LittleFieryOne: Soulless, I think the trope is called "Magical Negro."
2020-06-29 16:29:13 TheRaven: Stephen King has been a hack for years
2020-06-29 16:29:16 anorrack: i recommend Imaro if anyone wants to read into it
2020-06-29 16:29:28 Soulless: WLPierce, while we do want to have alternate histories and how they play out in fiction, having a novel that writes out a people from history, who are currently to this day still struggling to be considered people, has unfortunate implications in the cultural norm
2020-06-29 16:29:28 OCuin: I have read none of stephen kings work but it sounds very much not my kind of thing given… that
2020-06-29 16:29:33 anorrack: stephen king throws shit at the wall and makes bank on that stuff that sticks
2020-06-29 16:29:35 LittleFieryOne: Which was a paint for me to type.
2020-06-29 16:29:49 Soulless: LittleFieryOne, correct, that's the trople
2020-06-29 16:29:50 WLPierce: stephen king does pretty good work, i haven't really read many of his books that i didn't like that much
2020-06-29 16:29:51 Soulless: trope
2020-06-29 16:29:57 WLPierce: thinner is probably one of my favorite of all time
2020-06-29 16:30:17 Soulless: WLPierce, Stephen King is fine but he struggles to write black people
2020-06-29 16:30:23 LittleFieryOne: I've only read The Shining and Pet Semetery
2020-06-29 16:30:29 Soulless: You can both be a fan of SK and acknowledge he struggles to write black people
2020-06-29 16:30:29 WLPierce: he gets repetitive, but that's kinda part of the gig for being an author who pumps out as much as he does in the short time he did
2020-06-29 16:30:35 LittleFieryOne: I think it was spelled with an S
2020-06-29 16:30:58 Soulless: There is other horror out there
2020-06-29 16:31:17 Soulless: That one vandermeer book in which humans are enslaved by sapient fungus is a good one
2020-06-29 16:31:28 Soulless: mold guns
2020-06-29 16:31:44 TheRaven: A lot of King's stuff starts to feel kinda self-insert-y after a while
2020-06-29 16:31:48 AbsentmindedNihilist: Thomas ligotti is also quality
2020-06-29 16:32:16 LittleFieryOne: In other news, I had no idea that RaceFail was such a documented event
2020-06-29 16:32:23 Tinnose: Black Seas just got its first supplement
2020-06-29 16:32:27 AbsentmindedNihilist: Dathan Auerbach is a talent
2020-06-29 16:32:28 Soulless: LittleFieryOne, oh yeah fanlore is huge
2020-06-29 16:32:29 WLPierce: idk, i just don't really take race to be that big of an issue unless it's specifically dealing with some reason for it to matter in the book
2020-06-29 16:32:29 bouncl: john langan, also
2020-06-29 16:32:30 Tinnose: but its too expensive
2020-06-29 16:32:33 Tinnose: ;-;
2020-06-29 16:32:40 Soulless: WLPierce, it's a problem when you're a person of color
2020-06-29 16:32:49 WLPierce: how do you know i'm not?
2020-06-29 16:32:51 Soulless: WLPierce, which at this point is the majority of the world lol
2020-06-29 16:32:57 anorrack: Dan Abnett is one of the best
2020-06-29 16:32:57 bouncl: @Soulless which vandermeer book is that?
2020-06-29 16:33:00 BlueJones: Had a serious problem building a "man cave" for the 8ft tall canary from Sesame Street. It was a big bird den. (apologies for the sudden tangent but felt you guys would like this)
2020-06-29 16:33:19 BlueJones: anorrack: Oh I love Dan Abnett and Gav Thorpe's story writing
2020-06-29 16:33:31 LittleFieryOne: Did not know big bird needed a man cave
2020-06-29 16:33:38 Karakatt: Bird?
2020-06-29 16:33:39 Soulless: WLPierce, idk, admittedly I had your opinion when I was younger
2020-06-29 16:33:41 LittleFieryOne: Birds don't even hang out in caves, they hang out in trees
2020-06-29 16:33:54 LittleFieryOne: Get the bird a nest, dammit
2020-06-29 16:34:00 Karakatt: BIRD?
2020-06-29 16:34:02 LittleFieryOne: With airhockey and beer
2020-06-29 16:34:13 Soulless: WLPierce, then I grew up and couldn't date people without yellow fever jokes
2020-06-29 16:34:20 Soulless: :^)
2020-06-29 16:34:24 AbsentmindedNihilist: Adam Nevill is also doing good work as is… fuck I can’t remember her name
2020-06-29 16:34:31 AbsentmindedNihilist: She did Seed and the Bird Eater
2020-06-29 16:34:43 Soulless: bouncl, let me find it, it's his weirder works
2020-06-29 16:35:25 AbsentmindedNihilist: Also look at my new plushie!!!!
2020-06-29 16:35:48 AbsentmindedNihilist: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Bo8DKGfm/1593462942.JPG
2020-06-29 16:36:07 Penguin: Awww
2020-06-29 16:36:10 Popsioak: aaaa, cute
2020-06-29 16:36:10 BlueJones: Niles: I. LOVE. THIS. PLUSHHHHH!
2020-06-29 16:36:10 barredowl: i love em
2020-06-29 16:36:12 OCuin: that is a funky plushie
2020-06-29 16:36:26 Popsioak: damn this dude got style. i know he's a villager but idk what his name is
2020-06-29 16:36:36 LittleFieryOne: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03TxUpDU90E
2020-06-29 16:36:39 War_: Soulless: amazing title
2020-06-29 16:36:39 Soulless: AbsentmindedNihilist, nice
2020-06-29 16:36:43 Soulless: War_, I know right
2020-06-29 16:36:52 LittleFieryOne: I've been listening to this on loop for a few hours
2020-06-29 16:36:52 Soulless: War_, Chuck Tingle knows the right title to have all the time
2020-06-29 16:36:56 Kufat: for the record, my earlier joke about Stephen King was in reference to how he famously wrote some of his best works while out of his mind on coke. I haven't read enough of his output to have much of an opinion on his work.
2020-06-29 16:37:02 LittleFieryOne: Inturrupted by a virus scare and a wasp appearing in my room.
2020-06-29 16:37:10 AbsentmindedNihilist: Popsioak: his name is bill
2020-06-29 16:37:15 War_: Soulless: chuck tingle literally makes me so happy i am glad he exists
2020-06-29 16:37:22 WLPierce: i mean
2020-06-29 16:37:30 WLPierce: king is pretty much batshit insane as best as i can tell
2020-06-29 16:37:32 AbsentmindedNihilist: Kufat: it was cycle of the werewolf or Kujo that he just
2020-06-29 16:37:34 Soulless: bouncl, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finch_(novel)
2020-06-29 16:37:35 Popsioak: bill is good
2020-06-29 16:37:38 AbsentmindedNihilist: Couldn’t remember reading
2020-06-29 16:37:43 WLPierce: but i don't really let that impact my enjoyment of his works
2020-06-29 16:37:46 Duhon: Can someone crit my concept?
2020-06-29 16:37:55 bouncl: ty
2020-06-29 16:37:58 Soulless: WLPierce, it's fine to enjoy someone's works and also acknowledge their weaknesses
2020-06-29 16:38:02 LittleFieryOne: I've been told all his books are connected
2020-06-29 16:38:13 bouncl: @Duhon, link it again for me?
2020-06-29 16:38:16 BlueJones: .au
2020-06-29 16:38:16 LittleFieryOne: Which led to hollywood thinking "Cinematic universe let's get some marvel money"
2020-06-29 16:38:19 Duhon: A seemingly regular XIXth century mirror found in the basement of a house in Russia, that had been reported to "Make ghostly reflections" when looked at, as well as not accurately reflect the room it was at. The police was firstly called to investigate when a 13 year old girl got hit by something when looking at the mirror, and the foundation was called. They then noticed that it reflected the expected final look of an object,
2020-06-29 16:38:19 WLPierce: which i'm saying I did do
2020-06-29 16:38:19 Duhon: things such as a sheet of paper being ragged and dirty, or a person being older.
2020-06-29 16:38:22 LittleFieryOne: And that went down the crapper.
2020-06-29 16:38:24 AbsentmindedNihilist: Er writing
2020-06-29 16:38:26 OCuin: everybody likes stuff that is bad in some ways. it's healthy to both like something, and be open to criticisms of it
2020-06-29 16:38:28 Soulless: WLPierce, for example I can appreciate GoT while also saying GoT goes for a lot of cheap rape
2020-06-29 16:38:44 War_: it’s fine to enjoy someone’s works and acknowledge their weaknesses but with like jkr her being a transphobe ruined my childhood lmfao
2020-06-29 16:38:47 War_: like literally
2020-06-29 16:38:54 Soulless: fuck jkr
2020-06-29 16:39:03 OCuin: that sucked a lot
2020-06-29 16:39:04 DrMagnus: Ender's Game is a fucking masterpiece of psychological fiction
2020-06-29 16:39:10 DrMagnus: OSC is a son of a bitch.
2020-06-29 16:39:13 Soulless: fuck osc too
2020-06-29 16:39:21 LittleFieryOne: Imagine if it turned out her name was "just kidding" and everythign she said was a joke.
2020-06-29 16:39:24 Taurus: What's up with him?
2020-06-29 16:39:29 DrMagnus: Rampant homophobe.
2020-06-29 16:39:30 OCuin: worst part was i've started to see the influence of her terfy bs in hp itself and it's Not Good
2020-06-29 16:39:33 LittleFieryOne: Taurus, Homophobe, I'm told
2020-06-29 16:39:34 AbsentmindedNihilist: DrMagnus: like that’s a very homoerotic subtext laden book
2020-06-29 16:39:43 Taurus: Oh
2020-06-29 16:39:44 TheRaven: Soulless: at the same time, that's not particularly out of place for the type of setting it's in.
2020-06-29 16:39:50 TheMightyMcB: D&D also really shoved fanservice sex scenes in to the later seasons and would get pissy with actresses wanting to use body doubles
2020-06-29 16:39:51 AbsentmindedNihilist: It makes so little sense
2020-06-29 16:39:51 Taurus: Well that fucking sucks
2020-06-29 16:39:57 WLPierce: i respect people who are willing to have unpopular opinions if they're not constantly obnoxious about it
2020-06-29 16:40:01 DrMagnus: TheRaven: Just because it's historically accurate doesn't mean you have to write it all over the place.
2020-06-29 16:40:05 WLPierce: because it's way easier to go with the flow
2020-06-29 16:40:08 TheRaven: And fucking christ, OSC kinda lost it, look up a book by him called Empire
2020-06-29 16:40:10 DrMagnus: Homophobia is not an "unpopular opinion"
2020-06-29 16:40:17 War_: support trans friendly authors like nk jemisin with canonically trans characters
2020-06-29 16:40:26 Tinnose: Ender's Game was weird for me.
2020-06-29 16:40:28 War_: also fifth season is good it’ll fuck you up :)
2020-06-29 16:40:40 DrMagnus: Brandon Sanderson writes in a ton of middle-age settings, and there's definitly not rape all over the place.
2020-06-29 16:40:43 Soulless: TheRaven, that setting also has dragons so GRR martin could've done what he wanted
2020-06-29 16:40:44 Tinnose: sorry, just saw that comment
2020-06-29 16:40:51 AbsentmindedNihilist: TheRaven: also if we’re gonna show rape for historical accuracy than you have to show all the other gross historically accurate stuff
2020-06-29 16:40:53 DrMagnus: And it's not like their settings are more or less realistic. GoT has magic, and eternal winters, and shit.
2020-06-29 16:40:57 Soulless: TheRaven, apparently he wanted cheap rape
2020-06-29 16:41:02 Penguin: Brandon Sanderson is really good.
2020-06-29 16:41:11 AbsentmindedNihilist: Which frankly is what GRRM did
2020-06-29 16:41:11 LittleFieryOne: I actually own another orson scott card book called Seventh Son. Haven't read it in years
2020-06-29 16:41:16 AbsentmindedNihilist: In the books
2020-06-29 16:41:29 Kufat: Re. OSC, I always find it difficult to imagine how someone as bigoted and closed-minded as he is could've written Speaker for the Dead
2020-06-29 16:41:29 AbsentmindedNihilist: Which is an approach that you can agree or disagree with
2020-06-29 16:41:36 AbsentmindedNihilist: But it’s consistent
2020-06-29 16:41:51 MalycePhones: WLPierce: there is a huge difference between "unpopular opinions" and "oh, I don't like how oppressed peoples are getting better lives, so I'm gonna dissent"
2020-06-29 16:41:51 AbsentmindedNihilist: The show doesn’t have that and the rape is played for shock value
2020-06-29 16:41:59 bouncl: @Duhon I don't think it's bad, although you might also want to get the opinion of someone with more experience.
2020-06-29 16:42:07 WLPierce: if you're not actually going out and DOING anything about it, then it's an opinion
2020-06-29 16:42:08 Duhon: Mkay
2020-06-29 16:42:16 barredowl: hmm.
2020-06-29 16:42:23 Duhon: It's because every time I asked it here no one replied
2020-06-29 16:42:23 TheRaven: What Niles said, it's consistent low fantasy ugliness. And the show is totally different
2020-06-29 16:42:24 AbsentmindedNihilist: WLPierce: opinions can be toxic
2020-06-29 16:42:25 DrMagnus: WLPierce: Are you seriously defending people who think that being gay is somehow wrong?
2020-06-29 16:42:26 LittleFieryOne: Kufat, I KNOW, that feels so weird. Like, there's even a moment in the book where charactesr speculate that an alien race recreate homoerotically. It's still a bit homophobic, but not hateful.
2020-06-29 16:42:35 WLPierce: i could have the opinion that earth should be rocket-propelled into a black hole because the new fallout game is an unforgivable crime against the universe
2020-06-29 16:42:36 MalycePhones: That depends entirely upon the size of your bully pulpit
2020-06-29 16:42:37 DrMagnus: That's where your argument logically leads.
2020-06-29 16:42:38 AbsentmindedNihilist: You’re allowed to have them but we’re allowed to avoid you
2020-06-29 16:42:44 Soulless: WLPierce, I'm talking about it, which is about as much as you can do in culturally affecting literature towards the better
2020-06-29 16:42:46 OCuin: WLPierce: it's an opinion in the technical sense of the word. but we shouldn't treat it like one.
2020-06-29 16:42:48 Soulless: lol
2020-06-29 16:42:48 WLPierce: but unless i go out and start building thrusters, it doesn't really mean anything to someone else
2020-06-29 16:42:52 AbsentmindedNihilist: Or try to change your mind
2020-06-29 16:43:07 Soulless: WLPierce, in this case espousing opinions is an action
2020-06-29 16:43:13 OCuin: bigotry is an opinion if you want to get technical, but that doesn't mean we should treat it as such
2020-06-29 16:43:22 Tinnose: Opinions can hurt people if you express them.
2020-06-29 16:43:24 AbsentmindedNihilist: WLPierce: but anything other than just thinking it quietly to yourself is the equivalent of building thrusters
2020-06-29 16:43:30 MalycePhones: That's 100% an example of a straw man fallacy
2020-06-29 16:43:54 DrMagnus: Your opinions inform what you do, even if it's not overt. You'll avoid people you feel are "less". You'll treat them with less courtesy, or service if their a customer.
2020-06-29 16:44:04 LittleFieryOne: WLPierce, It's also worth noting that even if you don't go build thrusters, you'd vote for someone who has a closer chance to building thrusters, in your own mental narrative.
2020-06-29 16:44:05 DrMagnus: You might, for example, claim a BS "religious exemption" to serve them at all.
2020-06-29 16:44:10 War_: Soulless: actually u read a lot can i get some good recs i want stuff to read
2020-06-29 16:44:22 Soulless: anyhow AbsentmindedNihilist I admit I didn't read GoT because its main interest was apparently highly nuances fights for power over wealthy clans or something, except a big plot point was also apparently a young girl being wedded and married and slept with by an older guy,. and nah
2020-06-29 16:44:29 Soulless: War_, locus awards just came out
2020-06-29 16:44:31 LittleFieryOne: I've seen flat earthers vote from Trump because they think he's going to reveal the earth is really flat, and that the NWO faked the moon landing.
2020-06-29 16:44:33 WLPierce: if you all conflate speech, thought, and action, then there's not really much more to discuss there
2020-06-29 16:44:35 AbsentmindedNihilist: War_ I feel like you would like the seep
2020-06-29 16:44:36 Soulless: War_, also nebulas just came out
2020-06-29 16:44:46 barredowl: i need to get into science fiction
2020-06-29 16:44:48 Soulless: War_, gideon the ninth is lesbian necromancers in space
2020-06-29 16:44:48 barredowl: seems cool
2020-06-29 16:44:50 DrMagnus: WLPierce: WHat you say is a reflection of what you think. WHat you do is a reflection of what you feel.
2020-06-29 16:44:54 barredowl: and mayhaps gay
2020-06-29 16:45:03 DrMagnus: There is no separation.
2020-06-29 16:45:09 WLPierce: if i did everything i thought about, i'd piss my pants in public a lot more than i do right now
2020-06-29 16:45:13 AbsentmindedNihilist: Soulless: oh yeah I get it
2020-06-29 16:45:20 DrMagnus: 1) That's a fascile statement.
2020-06-29 16:45:23 OCuin: WLPierce: that is plainly not what Magnus means
2020-06-29 16:45:31 Tinnose: …
2020-06-29 16:45:36 AbsentmindedNihilist: Like I said, it’s an approach you can like or sdislike
2020-06-29 16:45:43 TheRaven: Soulless: honestly GoT is a bit overrated anyways, though I admit I gravitate more to scifi than fantasy lately
2020-06-29 16:45:47 AbsentmindedNihilist: Wait a minute what
2020-06-29 16:45:49 WLPierce: i'm saying you can have thoughts and opinions or things you say that aren't reflected in actions
2020-06-29 16:45:50 Soulless: barredowl, ninefox gambit is space opera where everyone is gay and fighting The System
2020-06-29 16:45:54 DrMagnus: 2) It does not matter, in the slightest to me, if you don't act on being a homophobe. Being a homophobe is a problem, as it means you feel a group of people are not valid.
2020-06-29 16:46:03 Soulless: WLPierce, IMO speaking is 100% an action
2020-06-29 16:46:05 War_: i’ve heard about ninefox gambit and wanted to read
2020-06-29 16:46:06 TheMightyMcB: TheRaven: the first couple seasons were excellent television
2020-06-29 16:46:09 AbsentmindedNihilist: I’m sorry how often do you think about pissing your pants
2020-06-29 16:46:10 WLPierce: i'm fine dropping the subject since saying i respect people might be a bannable action where this is going
2020-06-29 16:46:12 DrMagnus: WLPierce: And I'm saying anyone with a cursory ability to self examine would realise you cannot separate how you feel and how you act.
2020-06-29 16:46:23 Soulless: WLPierce, telling a GF she looks fat in a dress she likes is totally an action
2020-06-29 16:46:24 DrMagnus: Even if you don't think it's concious, you'll unconciously act on it. THat's how humans *work*
2020-06-29 16:46:26 Soulless: LOL
2020-06-29 16:46:27 AbsentmindedNihilist: Is this a thing
2020-06-29 16:46:40 WLPierce: you thought about it now that i said it
2020-06-29 16:46:41 WLPierce: gotem
2020-06-29 16:46:48 AbsentmindedNihilist: No like
2020-06-29 16:46:51 Corvus: We were thinking about it long before that :|
2020-06-29 16:46:59 tawny: there's a world of difference between intrusive thoughts or w/e and 'I don't think gay people are valid or deserve respect'
2020-06-29 16:47:05 War_: ^
2020-06-29 16:47:07 AbsentmindedNihilist: Under what context
2020-06-29 16:47:07 Soulless: correct tawny
2020-06-29 16:47:08 tawny: and it's silly to conflate the two
2020-06-29 16:47:08 War_: hugely
2020-06-29 16:47:17 AbsentmindedNihilist: Yes tawny is correct!
2020-06-29 16:47:20 Soulless: Intrusive thoughts are 0/10 tho
2020-06-29 16:47:24 OCuin: can we pin that message
2020-06-29 16:47:27 Calibri_Bold: tawny is absolutely right.
2020-06-29 16:47:31 OCuin: instrusive thoughts suck
2020-06-29 16:47:43 AbsentmindedNihilist: They’re the WORST
2020-06-29 16:47:57 Penguin: ^^^
2020-06-29 16:47:58 Taurus: Yup
2020-06-29 16:48:00 DrMagnus: And, as an aside, I do not respect people who hold bigoted opinions.
2020-06-29 16:48:03 War_: intrusive thoughts make you afraid you’re secretly a dick. internalising you’re homophobia still kinda makes you a dick because it’ll affect how you act
2020-06-29 16:48:09 Tinnose: I used to suffer from intrusive thoughts. It was pretty bad.
2020-06-29 16:48:11 LittleFieryOne: WLPierce, Listen, I can respect someone who has intrusive thoughts that they are analyzing and trying to work through. I can't respect someone who doesn't, since that person will speak and act on those thoughts without thinking about it.
2020-06-29 16:48:27 OCuin: i have them what feels like near constantly at the moment and it is incredibly Not Fun
2020-06-29 16:48:29 DrMagnus: LittleFieryOne: I have those. My parents raised me super racist and homophobic. Those thoughts still jump to the front all the time.
2020-06-29 16:48:36 tawny: likewise there is a world of difference between opinions like "I like pineapple on pizza" and opinions about who deserves rights and freedoms and respect, because one of those only comes into play when you're deciding what to have for dinner while the other comes into play any time you talk to and interact with another person
2020-06-29 16:48:37 WLPierce: the civil rights movement would've never managed to get off the ground if people didn't respect the validity of peaceful dissent
2020-06-29 16:48:47 DrMagnus: WLPierce: Homophobia is not "peaceful dissent"
2020-06-29 16:48:50 Popsioak: intrusive thoughts are ones folks can recognize are wrong, and the other is straight up bigotry with a veil o'er someone's eyes
2020-06-29 16:48:59 Corvus: Corvus has banned *!*@synIRC-2698DD57.brockwell.irccloud.com
2020-06-29 16:48:59 Popsioak: one is very very clearly not like the other
2020-06-29 16:49:06 DrMagnus: And your inability to walk back that you started this argument with defending someone who's homophobic means you've painted yourself in to that corner.
2020-06-29 16:49:09 tawny: why are we talking about peaceful dissent now? is this a goalpost-move or is this a trolling ploy or am I missing something
2020-06-29 16:49:09 WLPierce: WLPierce was kicked by Corvus for: l m f a o
Consensus of 1 chatmin and 6 full ops was perma.
User appealed, & TheMightyMcB heard. Log follows.
2020-06-29 16:49:30 WLPierce: i can just drop the topic then
2020-06-29 16:49:43 taylor_itkin: Hi are you looking to appeal your ban
2020-06-29 16:49:44 Corvus: Far too late for that.
2020-06-29 16:50:03 WLPierce: i'd said a few minutes ago i was willing to drop the topic since i was worried about an unexpected ban
2020-06-29 16:50:20 WLPierce: the unexpected ban happened without a warning, so here i am
2020-06-29 16:50:22 Corvus: The only party that wasn't expecting it appears to be you
2020-06-29 16:50:46 Corvus: It is a permanent ban for bigotry or trolling. If you wish to appeal, TheMightyMcB will be hearing it
2020-06-29 16:50:51 Corvus: If not, please show yourself out.
2020-06-29 16:51:02 TheMightyMcB: I/
2020-06-29 16:51:13 WLPierce: those were both not what i was saying
2020-06-29 16:51:16 Corvus: Floor's yours, McB
2020-06-29 16:51:29 TheMightyMcB: WLPierce: alright so going the appeal route then?
2020-06-29 16:51:34 WLPierce: yeppers
2020-06-29 16:51:54 TheMightyMcB: Alright, explain why your ban should be commuted then
2020-06-29 16:51:56 TheMightyMcB: Floor is all yours
2020-06-29 16:52:39 WLPierce: all i said was that i view the works of an author independently from their personal stands and biases, and that i don't think it's appropriate to try and compel someone's opinions or voices opinions because that power can be used against people as much as for them
2020-06-29 16:53:15 TheMightyMcB: that is very much not what you said
2020-06-29 16:53:46 WLPierce: i also said that i don't think thoughts, actions, and speech are always connected to each other
2020-06-29 16:54:01 TheMightyMcB: in defense of bigotry
2020-06-29 16:55:24 WLPierce: bigotry isn't the target of the defense, or the intended goal
2020-06-29 16:55:41 TheMightyMcB: bigotry was the topic of chat at the time
2020-06-29 16:56:36 WLPierce: it was the topic and i was saying that although the things people can say and thing are disagreeable, the fact that they can say them is a marker that people in a minority who are being legitimately marginalized are likely to not have their voices silenced
2020-06-29 16:57:11 TheMightyMcB: the specific topic was stephen king struggling to write black people
2020-06-29 16:57:19 TheMightyMcB: to be crystal clear
2020-06-29 16:57:46 WLPierce: which i said i didn't really notice in the context of his literature - the books by King that i've read don't make it a topic that interacts with the story much more than someone's profession
2020-06-29 16:57:54 WLPierce: it's something i can't attest to or against either way
2020-06-29 16:58:57 WLPierce: also for what it's worth, when things got heated in the primary chat i mentioned that i'd be more than willing to drop the topic
2020-06-29 16:59:19 TheMightyMcB: sure but you can't just drop weapons grade takes and then expect people to drop it
2020-06-29 16:59:41 WLPierce: i don't expect anyone else to drop the topic, clearly the majority of people disagreed with me and i was willing to stand down
2020-06-29 16:59:44 TheMightyMcB: nobody has to drop a thing until an op says so
2020-06-29 17:01:04 WLPierce: if anyone on the ops or even halfops said it would've been best for me to let the topic go, i would've done that and this entire process would've been avoided
2020-06-29 17:01:16 TheMightyMcB: or
2020-06-29 17:01:31 TheMightyMcB: you could have just not defended bigotry
2020-06-29 17:01:46 Jazstar: Just gonna point out that we're not responsible for teaching you how to be socially acceptable
2020-06-29 17:01:59 WLPierce: i don't defend bigotry, nor was that the goal of what i was saying
2020-06-29 17:02:03 TheMightyMcB: you could have stopped yourself at any point
2020-06-29 17:02:10 TheMightyMcB: and you even said you were gonna drop it and then didnt
2020-06-29 17:02:52 TheMightyMcB: WLPierce: do you have anything else?
2020-06-29 17:05:14 TheMightyMcB: i'll give you a few minutes in case you're typing something up, but do note that irc has a character limit
2020-06-29 17:07:00 WLPierce: i said i was willing to drop the topic, which was also a topic that a number of operators were participating in - i don't think it's right that they tell me i'm defending something I'm not, and also choose to instantly ban me instead of telling me to stop when i said i was willing to stop
2020-06-29 17:07:28 TheMightyMcB: you'll notice the banning and appealing 0ps were not arguing with you
2020-06-29 17:07:37 TheMightyMcB: this was a decision made by people who were not participating
2020-06-29 17:09:00 WLPierce: it's an incorrect projection of my intent, and a ban when a warning that i was talking on uncomfortable territory would've been more than enough to prevent this and similar discussions in the future
2020-06-29 17:09:09 WLPierce: both are deeply upsetting
2020-06-29 17:09:49 TheMightyMcB: you got a warning earlier today
2020-06-29 17:09:58 TheMightyMcB: or did you forget getting kicked?
2020-06-29 17:10:09 TheMightyMcB: we aren't babysitters, you're expected to act like an adult
2020-06-29 17:10:22 WLPierce: i mentioned how quickly someone got booted for using a no-no word
2020-06-29 17:10:27 TheMightyMcB: this is going in circles, appeal denied
2020-06-29 17:10:31 TheMightyMcB: please show yourself out
2020-06-29 17:11:20 WLPierce: i've got to say i'm deeply dissapointed that you're willing to completely and maliciously misinterpret my intent that freedom of speech protects everyone, not just people intending to do harm
2020-06-29 17:11:21 WLPierce: good day
