Disciplinary - CorpseOfBixby/JustBixby

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Disc record - CorpseOfBixby

Tuomey Tombstone 24 Apr 2019 14:51

CorpseOfBixby started a draft thread about a gay fanfic which would've involved Roget and someone else, possibly a minor. The draft seems to have been removed but the thread still exists,

It's… hard to summarise.

Roget did NOT give permission for the "gay fanfic" part of things, as given the image he linked, this was not described by the user accurately when asking for permission to user Roget's name.

Roget locked the thread and I'm honestly at a loss for what to do here but I've got to believe this breaks some kind of rule. Disc team, chime in.

EDIT: The thread has been deleted, myself and Procy have screenshots.

Last edited on 24 Apr 2019 23:33 by Tuomey Tombstone Show more

Re: Disc record - CorpseOfBixby

ProcyonLotor 24 Apr 2019 15:50

possibly a minor.

Having read the draft, the character-as-portrayed is not a minor, but the actual person the character represents is. It is a crime of ignorance, but I do not believe that helps them much here at all as they seemingly happily skipped the most cursory of research that would have prevented this.

Re: Disc record - CorpseOfBixby

AbsentmindedNihilist 24 Apr 2019 14:56

Blanked bc I forgot I'm no longer staff.

Last edited on 24 Apr 2019 16:47 by AbsentmindedNihilist Show more

Re: Disc record - CorpseOfBixby

ProcyonLotor 24 Apr 2019 15:48

Not disc, but I'm extremely personally uncomfortable with someone willing to pull this kind shit being on our site at any future point.

Re: Disc record - CorpseOfBixby

SoullessSingularity 24 Apr 2019 16:54

I’m disc and I will state the following:

Bixby failed to confirm that all parties are capable of and provide informed consent. Due to this I am recommending a permanent ban, equivalent to one year ban with the allowance of an appeal afterwards and rediscussion. The allowance of an appeal after one year is due to the immediate response by Bixby to remove the offending material immediately as soon as they were cognizant of their error.

That being said, this is possibly caused by a confusion on how adult context and authors should be handled. I will draft additions to our disciplinary policy and put them up tonight for review.

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Living the dream, or dreaming the life?

Last edited on 24 Apr 2019 17:00 by SoullessSingularity Show more

Re: Disc record - CorpseOfBixby

taylor_itkin 24 Apr 2019 16:55

exit this was preemptive, my bad

Last edited on 24 Apr 2019 17:27 by taylor_itkin Show more

Re: Disc record - CorpseOfBixby

ProcyonLotor 24 Apr 2019 16:59

Last edited on 24 Apr 2019 17:47 by ProcyonLotor Show more

Re: Disc record - CorpseOfBixby

RJB_R 24 Apr 2019 17:48

I'd rather we let this thing be in the past.

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Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you!

Last edited on 25 Apr 2019 15:43 by RJB_R Show more

Re: Disc record - CorpseOfBixby

Tuomey Tombstone 24 Apr 2019 20:19

Voting in favour of Souls' proposal above.

Also noting that I deleted a post in the offending threat containing reference to the age of a user who did not want that information known.

I believe it does not provide significant evidence of any weight to this case that it would need to be seen by any and all staff but I did save a screenshot to my PC before deleting.

I am phrasing this circumspectly given that it's a privacy concern.

Re: Disc record - CorpseOfBixby

Zyn 24 Apr 2019 23:17

So… I kind of wish someone had made it clearer to me that we were intent on pursuing disciplinary action for this, because last night I informed CorpseofBixby that she would be required to post a public apology and the next infraction would be grounds Dr immediate dismissal from the Butterfly Roster.

I personally feel like there was no malice involved in this (just extremely bad judgment and probably too much reading of the crackfic contest works? I'm pretty sure most authors for those pieces didn't seek permission for using site member names, nor did they check for age of consent) so an immediate perma feels like jumping the gun given how easy it is to misinterpret the precedent.

Granted, I haven't read the draft and I am inherently biased since CorpseofBixby has responded well when handling instructions on how to improve their feedback, and seems genuinely devoted to contributing to the site. If the parties involved would like to pursue disciplinary action, I have no issue with that.

We definitely should write up clearer policy on adult works, but given that this just seems like a dumb mistake, I don't think immediate perma makes sense. Month ban, 6 month ban maybe.

At any rate I think it's best that I recuse myself here since I don't think I'm entirely impartial. But these are my thoughts about the matter.

ETA: upon further investigation of the context and the messages I have been sent with concerns, I have removed CorpseofBixby from the Butterfly Squad Roster. It's unfortunate since she is one of the most active respondents in the forum, but this is not behavior we want associated with the most trusted reviewers on the site.

Last edited on 24 Apr 2019 23:31 by Zyn Show more

Re: Disc record - CorpseOfBixby

Tuomey Tombstone 24 Apr 2019 23:36

I was unaware of any deal between yourself and the user and apologise for going across you in this but I can't go back on my vote here.

Including a fictionalised version of a minor (not their author avatar or self insert, the person themself) in a nsfw fic is pretty bad. Additionally, there's an obligation to obtain informed consent which just… wasn't followed.

I don't necessarily attribute malice to the user but in this case it merely means I'm going with Soul's plan rather than an outright perma.

Re: Disc record - CorpseOfBixby

Zyn 25 Apr 2019 00:25

I was unaware of any deal between yourself and the user

I'm admittedly not happy with my captain response to the matter being called a deal. But that's beside the point.

Including a fictionalised version of a minor (not their author avatar or self insert, the person themself) in a nsfw fic is pretty bad.

I think it's important to note here that this wasn't done intentionally—the minor's name was added to replace a placeholder that was effectively interchangeable with any name.

Additionally, there's an obligation to obtain informed consent which just… wasn't followed.

We don't have solid precedent for writers being aware of this obligation, and the writer here is in their teens and might just not know better. Objectively that doesn't make this not a bad situation, but it also seems to be assuming more malice present than is warranted.

Again, given the severity of the unfortunate situation I will not argue against disciplinary action being taken. I just feel like staff is making undue assumptions about the user's intentions here. Maybe they saw that one comment on the bottledick hub and thought that to be funny for April Fools, this was the logical next step.

I personally would like to receive a statement from the author in question first so we can learn how to better prevent this sort of thing from happening again, rather than just having staff assume we know exactly what happened and writing further policy with a limited viewpoint.

Re: Disc record - CorpseOfBixby

Tuomey Tombstone 26 Apr 2019 12:20

We don't have solid precedent for writers being aware of this obligation

This isn't an SCP wiki specific rule. This is just how doing sex things with or about people works.

I don't assume malice, I don't know why people are still discussing malice because it doesn't matter whether they were malicious or negligent, a ban needs to happen anyway.

Re: Disc record - CorpseOfBixby

Zyn 26 Apr 2019 15:47

This isn't an SCP wiki specific rule. This is just how doing sex things with or about people works.

If an author isn't aware of this off the SCP site, then there's no way they would be aware of it as a member of the site without guidelines.

I don't know why people are still discussing malice because it doesn't matter whether they were malicious or negligent,

We're handling the case of a human being who made a dumb mistake at 17 years old. Elitism aside, I think it's important for staff to maintain awareness of context and not come off as being overly eager to demonize kids who make mistakes due to lack of foreknowledge. I think we need the new guideline added with these people in mind, since they're the ones who need it the most. People who are outright maliciously trying to slander site members can be kicked out no problem and the guideline shouldn't be written to keep that sort of content contributing to the site.

a ban needs to happen anyway

I am in agreement with this. My disagreement is with the length of the ban. However, I will not personally argue for a change from current consensus.

ETA: tl;dr some people legit don't know that some things are a problem, and we need to raise awareness of proper behavior in a way that invites people to learn, not dissuades them.

Last edited on 26 Apr 2019 16:04 by Zyn Show more

Re: Disc record - CorpseOfBixby

Jacob Conwell 24 Apr 2019 23:45

In support of Soul's plan: Perma with appeal possible in a year.

Re: Disciplinary - CorpseOfBixby

SoullessSingularity 25 Apr 2019 01:48

With the acceptance of other users:

We have discovered that CorpseOfBixby had written erotic or domination-based fic about multiple underage users, as well as lied to multiple other staff members regarding the nature of fics written about them. Due to the severity of this case, the users in question are being kept anonymous and the appropriate fics have been stored for disciplinary staff oversight upon request. I will go on with a permament ban.

Salutations,

I am SoullessSingularity, administrator of the SCP Foundation. You've been issued a permanent ban due to the writing of works containing adult themes about authors who are underage or without the author's express and informed permission. You may appeal after one year. If you have any questions or concerns, please message me back or reach out to the #site17 channel of the synirc irc platform.

Sincerely,
SoullessSingularity

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Living the dream, or dreaming the life?

Last edited on 25 Apr 2019 02:26 by SoullessSingularity Show more

Re: Disciplinary - CorpseOfBixby

AdminBright 25 Apr 2019 01:50

Same.

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Admin, SCP Wiki

Re: Disciplinary - CorpseOfBixby

LadyKatie 25 Apr 2019 01:55

This was the PM I recieved

To call it intentionally misleading is an understatement. I do not like being sexualized, and what very little of what I saw was written about me, that's exactly what happened. When you tell me "WWE style" it's sorta implied that this means it's appropriate for television and this sort of thing isn't really something you'll have to worry about. This is straight up deception and I'm not cool with it.

Last edited on 25 Apr 2019 01:57 by LadyKatie Show more

Re: Disciplinary - CorpseOfBixby

UraniumEmpire 25 Apr 2019 03:30

Another brick in the wall.

As a note: I'm referred to as "he" in the tale, which I don't think is malicious given how little I talk about being trans on the mainsite, but a bit odd considering I quite literally have "female" in my bio. Given the fact that Bixby also missed my myriad of hangups with capitalism, I'm guessing this is a matter of terminal stupidity.

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… and I'm not Robert Frost.

Re: Disciplinary - CorpseOfBixby

Zyn 25 Apr 2019 04:36

Noting that I received permission to post the concern PMs I received earlier today. They are as follows:

+ show block

I also don’t typically mind most subject material, but I am concerned about the whole fiasco regarding this....thing. If, for a nanosecond, we disregard the fact that permission for appearance in one type of story was repurposed for another, less reputable, type of story, that it appears permission wasn’t sought at all from Rounderhouse, the underage aspect, and that there were plans to apply this to everyone on Butterfly squad, there is something in this thread regarding intent.

This is essentially a gay boxing fanfic. With any luck, this could get popular.

I do not know whether the bet CorpseOfBixby hinged upon upvotes or not, but what I do know is that this isn’t good. Smut fiction involving real users, becoming popular? I admittedly do not peruse the ‘sexual’ tag entries, and I don't know if this stuff already exists to the same degree as smut between written characters, but creating a popular new trend where users are solicited for their approval of appearing in smut fiction on a site that gets new users every day from mature sources such as Markiplier is, if I may be a blunt concerned citizen, disturbing.

I wouldn’t ordinarily be this concerned if I believed this had no chance of being popular, but I’m not certain of that. Until Roget clarified he had not provided permission, the endeavor received a placeholder crit post, and a reception that can best be described as ‘apprehensive but not adversarial.’

I personally don’t believe it’s possible for one to ask for permission that clearly states “basically WWE, but with Butterfly Squad Members" and then accidentally switch the genre to "This is essentially a gay boxing fanfic." The bet that spurned the endeavor in the first place was about ‘gay fanfiction’ after all, and it appears purposefully vague, if not strangely convenient for the author, to hide the less clean aspects of the tale when approaching Roget for permission, since the rules of the bet were presumably established. However, my perception is limited to what I see on O5 and this thread, so I might be wrong. I hope I am. I’m not disciplinary, I’m not staff, I’m not suggesting anything, but there are a number of red flags here that I personally feel could easily be overlooked when just focusing on the more blatant facts of the case. My apologies for bothering you with what is, near objectively, a distasteful subject.

+ show block

I don’t mind if my concerns are put on O5, and I admit I was also quite surprised that a user so active on the forums trying to help out got caught up in this, but there’s some new information regarding CorpseofBixby that I only discovered after sending my initial PM. There’s other fiction about Butterfly Squad users penned out in COB’s sandbox, and more planned.

The tab labelled ‘Bad Blood’ has you in a sword fight with Waxwing-1 and Polynom.

The tab labelled ‘The Knights of Yore’ has SirPudding and LadyKatie and uh…

Tab Kickstarter is labelled ‘Alces, Double Time vs. Random Day, the Random’

There are a few others like that scattered around. I don’t know if permission was sought out for any of these, or if Staff jurisdiction extends into unpublished and unmentioned works like this in the sandbox.

Despite all this, I also don't believe malicious intent is present here, but rather one of the poorest audience-reads and judgements I’ve ever seen. I dont think anyone in staff was expecting something like this, so I wish you all the best with this thing. It’s certainly an uncomfortable and odd issue.

I also received three messages from CorpseofBixby containing the same information that was presented to Soulless, along with a noted wish to continue reviewing even with the site ban.

They're obviously pretty upset about this, but at this point there's not much I can say in their favor.

Not Disc

Shanor 25 Apr 2019 05:20

Yeah… I also got one of these. But I honestly have to agree that this feels more just like a very big screw up on their part. It really just sounds like they wanted to surprise everyone with something completely out of sorts to catch us off guard for AFD. And while this was a fairly bad way of doing it, I doubt there was any ill will on their part. They are just 17 (or at least their bio says so); which, while not exactly excusing the situation, does give merit to the point that they didn't even think about something like consent and/or minors. I feel like this does require punishment (because obviously setting a precedent of letting people off for this for any reason is not a good idea), but overall should be taken as a bad decision rather than a view of their character. For me at least, I would have been fine with hinting toward something going on in the article since by the end people would realize it was just a joke. The issue for me is that they put it as a gay fanfic. I personally prefer to be ambiguous about my gender and sexuality, so that did screw with me a little. And other people affected by this might see this as worse than I do, so take this with a grain of salt, but I personally think they should get a sizeable punishment and then have to deal with the aftermath of this. That, at least for me, is enough of a punishment. The point of disc (or at least from what I have been told) is to stop future problematic behavior, and in this case, I have a feeling they aren't gonna be doing something like this again. Give Bixby time to mature a bit, then we can see where they go from there.

tldr; IMO this deserves serious punishment… but not a perma. They made an absolutely stupid decision, but they obviously aren't gonna do something like this again and seem to have been shaken up enough from the reactions alone.

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